Brad Pitt | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse, the mightiest of the mis-s.

I'm here. I'm mighty. Wow.

Yeah, I have to imagine many people have guessed about this episode because we've obviously been so excited for a while now.

We have.

Knowing and so excited that I was like, even though he said yes, I just feel like there'll be something will happen.

I know. I'm still scared.

Yeah, I am too.

Until it's been out for like even two weeks, maybe.

But yeah, the number one from when I sat down, the notion of interviewing this person was absolutely implausible.

Hilarious.

It was a joke. It was a funny joke.

Yeah.

But then Monty got Matt Damon and that maybe cracked a little ray of hope.

Oh, yeah.

Dreams do come true.

Dreams come true.

Without further ado, my dream boyfriend, Brad Pitt, an Academy Award winning actor, a producer, Fight Club 7.

I feel embarrassed even listing these.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and Glorious Bastards.

And the new most kick-ass movie of the summer.

I'm going to declare it as the most kick-ass movie of the whole summer and maybe the decade.

F1, hair-raising, fucking a point of view you've never gotten.

This is as close as you can get to what it feels like to be in a race car.

Oh.

It's incredible.

And he's fucking perfect.

He's perfect.

God, we love him.

We really do.

And he, I mean, as you'll hear, he's just such a delight.

So kind.

Gave us so much of his time.

Yeah.

Charmed the fuck out of us, really.

Yeah.

Well, get your spare.

Nope.

Don't say it.

Please enjoy Brad Pitt.

He's an old chair expert.

He's an old chair expert.

Spare.

Hi.

Monica, how are you?

Monica, it's so nice to meet you.

Me too.

Sorry, I got ice cream.

No, you're good.

You're good.

What'd you get?

I tried this new thing here.

It's a blueberry latte.

I'll take a sip.

I want to absolutely take a sip.

Thank you for offering.

Oh, yes.

Is it nice?

Well, I love, blueberry's my favorite fake flavor.

You want in there?

You gotta take a little rip.

Not really, but.

No, I will.

I will.

I've put two nicotine products next to you in case you are wanting.

No, I'm long.

I'm done.

You're done?

Yeah.

For how long?

Good for you.

A couple years now?

Zero nicotine.

None.

Why?

I think 30 years of smoking.

I've just figured.

I've had enough.

I've had enough.

Good for you.

I've had enough.

But nicotine is really good for your brain.

Well.

Is it?

That's what he likes to say.

Listen, I got it in reserves.

You don't need any pick-me-ups.

Now, is there any problem with, like, advertisement?

No.

No, no, no.

You can do whatever you want.

We can advertise for Topo Chico's sponsors.

Those are just what we thought you might like.

We threw a lot of beverages at you.

But we're going to ask you to hold a Filet-O-Fish at one point and say, God damn, this is good.

You don't have to say McDonald's.

I have no idea what this means, but I'm doing a fucking ad for God's.

You are looking.

Yeah.

Supporting.

Is that?

Sure.

Wow.

Is that a waffle?

What is that?

What do we call that?

Yes.

Yeah, it looks fucking great.

The blue's really nice.

Okay, not only is this God's true cashmere, I'm pretty sure this is the one you gifted me.

I've got a few now, and I was like, I think that's the one he sent.

You know what I think he's doing?

I think he's kind of, like, pining for another.

I know.

Oh, there's no question.

I think he's, like, trolling a little bit.

I mean, I'm not going to rule out that I don't want one myself.

Monty has some.

She has some true God's true.

I do.

I have some shorts.

Shorts are fun.

They're so cute.

The green and white.

Would you go short hoodie?

I just went.

Would you do a hoodie?

I would do a hoodie.

Even with long hair?

Because sometimes women with long hair, they don't like the hoodie.

Yeah, but I keep my hair up a lot.

You'd cut your hair off, right, for a free hoodie?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, great, great.

For God's true?

Or a blanket?

You guys do blankets?

Oh, yeah, we do cushy blankets.

That sounds nice.

How did we come up with the name God's true cashmere?

My dear friend, who is originally a holistic nurse, that I met around the time we met.

Yeah.

Or really met.

In your age of discovery?

In my age of discovery.

And I came in one day, and she said, I had a dream about you.

You said, I want more green in my life.

And I literally said that to someone the day before.

Like, just out of whim, I want more green in my life.

That is spooky.

And so she made me a green shirt.

This.

Super soft.

Super cash.

So she was a holistic nurse who also made this.

Yes.

Her name is Sadheti, which means, it means God's truth.

Oh.

And she goes, what do you think of this?

Yeah, we started making them, and we really liked them.

Then we started making them for our friends, and we thought, all right, let's make a little side hustle and have some fun with it.

It's been really, a lot of fun, a lot of fun.

So fun.

But yeah, so she said, what do you think of God's true cashmere?

I went, it's bold.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's memorable.

It sticks out.

Yes.

Can't find a reason not to.

Might get a certain segment of the country mad, but hey, let's roll with it.

Well, I mean, everyone's got their own definition, right?

They sure do.

Well, everyone thinks it's you, that you're God, and it's your true cashmere.

Oh, that would be the worst.

What?

That would be the very worst.

I think people might think that.

I thought it.

No!

In a good way, in a good, oh no, I've really stepped in it already.

I got to go.

Yeah, Pitt, he's known for his ego.

No, you are not.

Massive.

No, you are not.

Okay, so on that topic.

I like that there's no entry to this thing.

No, we can slide in.

Just slide in and go.

Don't you like that?

Because don't you think when you're acting, like, action is almost, and there have been famous directors who don't say action, right?

I asked on the last one not to.

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

Okay, yeah, because all of a sudden it's like, be great now.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, jarring.

As opposed to, like, we're talking, we're hanging.

Given the way you and I met, does it make you nervous?

Actually, he means.

Of course.

Oh, he wishes.

That's hopefully where it is.

You know, I've never had a gay experience.

I kind of missed that window.

But if I did, yeah, it wouldn't be you.

You had me.

I was like, wow, he's going to say it.

I was like, Dax is going to die tonight.

Maybe 14th or 15th.

I don't want to brag, but you're going to need to build up to me.

Oh, boy.

I do recommend you start with some starters.

Okay, back to the real thing.

Given the context in which we met, which is, like, really heightened honesty and vulnerability.

Yep.

Does it make you nervous to have to talk with me in public?

No, not at all.

Okay, great.

Yeah, quite at ease.

Oh, okay, great.

We can say men's group, right?

I say AA.

You're not supposed to, but I say it.

I said that.

But I went on, like, some New York Times interview, and what an amazing thing this experience was for me.

It was a men's group.

Yeah.

It was AA.

It was when I first was getting sober.

And I just thought it was just incredible men sharing, you know, their experiences, their foibles, their missteps, their wants, their aches, and just a lot of humor with it.

And I thought it was a really special experience.

Coming from the Ozarks, we were like, everything's great.

Yeah.

And so I do this interview, and I say this, and I got admonished by someone of the higher-ups saying, Oh, you did?

It's anonymous.

And went, but, no.

How does that help anyone, though?

Not for you.

That's what I said.

Yeah.

Here's the truth.

There was a period of time where, if you were known to be an alcoholic, you would be run out of your neighborhood.

You couldn't find employment.

There was a great reason for it.

But even deeper than that is they didn't want alcoholics just showing up at their doorstep because no one had a fucking solution, and you would be kind of inviting just the town drunks to show up.

So a lot of reasons.

My excuse, because I say it openly, and I've gotten some criticism, is like, I've had a couple dozen, maybe more people come up to me in the last seven years and go like, Hey, man, I'm the best man at my brother's wedding, and my family wouldn't talk to me, and I found out about AA from you.

And I'm like, I'll take that dude over 1,000 fucking haters.

Two of those as well.

Yeah.

But Dax, you know, you go around in a circle, it's kind of spiral because it's a really crowded room.

Yeah.

And Dax would always, was near the end, usually near the end, because he's been there a while.

He's kind of like a-

Elder statesman.

Elder statesman.

Thank you.

And would always have this, like, I really respected it.

Was really open, honest, was a way to kind of take whatever the theme kind of seemed to go in the evening and then put it in the funniest, funniest kind of package.

And it meant a lot to me.

Really did.

That's really nice.

I say that straight.

Good job, Dax.

Yeah, that was a really- Haven't talked to him since.

Yeah.

Understandably.

I'm so impactful that I have not seen him since.

You use him for what he's worth, and then you walk away.

That's what we do.

Send him a couple of the free products every now and then.

Can we tell you about our date?

Yeah.

Okay.

He did, but we keep you on the DL a little bit on this show.

Yeah.

And this is really kind of this fun theme that I, and I often tell people this, and I wonder if you can relate to this.

Surely you've worked with people where you're holding two things simultaneously about them.

Like, if you were to have worked with Paul Newman, I imagine you have Paul Newman.

Yeah.

And then you would have a man you know.

Yep.

Yeah.

And I think it's okay to keep both those things alive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's fair.

Yeah.

I have a handful of friends where it's like, Robert Dunney Jr.

I saw him as a kid in Weird Science, and him dumping the fucking malt off the top of the mall.

He's not even a main player in that movie.

Yeah.

We had a rad cardigan on.

And like a zoot suit or something.

Yeah.

He was wild.

And I'm like, that dude's awesome.

I love that dude.

Followed him throughout the years.

Ultimately became friends with him.

And it's like, yeah, I have like Robert, the dude I know.

And then there's the guy I just was in love with from Chaplin and all these things.

But they don't really, I mean.

They don't intersect, right?

They don't.

Yeah.

They don't intertwine that way.

Do you have anyone like that?

Well, all these.

You said it.

Yeah.

I remember meeting Newman.

Okay.

You know.

Working with Redford.

Working with Hackman.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

You know who I have that with?

Sean Penn.

Oh, yeah.

There you go.

He'd be my one, I think.

Number One.

That's a good one.

89.

Sean Penn.

Oh, fuck.

He'd be number one.

Oh, my God.

How about Racing with the Moon?

How about At Close Range?

Oh, my God.

He was funny.

You know this one?

I haven't seen that one.

Rush home.

Okay, I will.

Put this one on.

He's in it with his brother.

Christopher Walken.

Yep, Chris.

Wow.

And he got fucking huge for it.

Wow.

Yeah.

He's a super star.

Remember when you were younger?

Like, oh, shit.

Sean Penn's fucking huge.

Yeah, he's badass.

Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker.

Super stylized, the way it's shot.

Jamie Foley directed it.

But it's also, it is, I mean, I think younger actors should study it because so much is said without saying it.

And it's such a streamlined script, and everything is undercurrent.

Yeah.

It's kind of quiet, right?

The movie's pretty quiet.

It's great.

Okay, we share another one while we're on this road.

Mickey Rourke.

We do.

Whoa.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Love that, Mickey Rourke.

Where does it start for you?

In fact, because, you know, we started, like, I don't know, I started really looking at acting.

It was late 80s.

Uh-huh.

And so, at that point, Mickey Rourke.

Wow.

Yeah, on fire.

He had kind of this Bogart roughness to him.

Super tough, but also this really vulnerable, really vulnerable, like, tough guy.

Yeah.

He could walk both lines.

He was doing something that was so extraordinary.

So, you watch Angel Heart.

Angel Heart, like.

Oh.

And Lisa Bonet in Angel Heart.

That's incredible.

Oh.

Just incredible.

Oh, my.

That's your number one.

I was, when I was a kid, I'm like, I'm naming my daughter if I have one epiphany.

Lisa Bonet.

Oh, epiphany, yes.

Lisa Bonet.

First, her first name is Lisa Bonet.

One more, Lisa Bonet.

He's got great vulnerability.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's the deal.

To be able to walk with that kind of strength and toughness and then.

And he was sexy.

Come on.

Dudes.

So sexy.

Dudes weren't really sexy then.

Pope of Greenwich Village.

Oh.

What a sated movie.

So 80s.

He still is timeless.

He is so badass.

I said, I'm the Pope.

Oh.

Oh, wow.

Remember this?

They took my fingers, Charlie.

Yeah, that's great.

Took my fucking thumb, Charlie.

Chalutes.

Chalutes.

Okay.

Go.

Back to that situation.

Which?

Meeting you in that context.

You're at this meeting.

We're going to get into the fact that a bazillion famous people have come to this meeting and everyone's used to it.

And then you came in, it was pretty overwhelming.

And I got a real sense of what your experience is in this way that I couldn't really fathom, but you have the power of when you are in a place, everyone can't stop thinking about you.

And I was like, God, he has to be aware of that.

What does that feel like?

That's a lot to deal with.

How is he ever going to open up and be honest in this space?

And then it dissipates a bit.

People get a little more comfortable.

And then you were.

You were so fucking honest.

And I was like, he must have a stubbornness like I have, which is like, yeah, all this is going on, but I refuse to let it, not let me be a person.

Oh, it's interesting.

Never thought about it that way.

You know, I was in pretty, I was pretty much on my back.

Yeah.

You know, on my knees.

And I was really open to, I was trying anything and everyone, anything anyone threw at me.

It was a particular difficult time.

I need rebooting.

I needed to wake the fuck up in some areas and, and it meant, it just meant a lot to me.

So yeah, the first is, oh my God, it's coming around, you know, it's coming around, it's getting closer.

It's going to be yours.

But everyone was so open.

It's contagious, right?

It is.

It gives you permission in a way to go, okay, I'm going to step out on this edge and see what happens.

And then I really, you know, I just really grew to love it.

When another dude shares so honestly and open about his struggles and his defects, and it gets to you, don't you feel, you feel like you owe him that honesty in return?

And it was also, but it was also, you know, anything could, anything could go.

Because some guys would be like, you know what?

Didn't have such a bad week.

Sure.

And this worked.

And this was, and talk about their wins, you know?

So it's like, I made my bed and I had a great thing.

Yeah, little failures and little successes.

And yeah.

And you know what?

I woke up and I'm going to do it again tomorrow.

So that too.

And then there's always, what do you think?

Is there about 30 guys in there roughly?

Yeah, on a big.

Different guys come in and come out.

Especially when you fucking showed up.

People are knocking at the door.

It's hard enough a little bit.

Hardly.

But then there's always one guy, there's always one guy though, where he just loves to hear himself talk and he just go.

Yeah, that's tough.

And you get, wait till you get through the next one.

It's actually not tough.

It's pretty funny.

There's, there's.

Well, Dax had in a fight with someone over at once, didn't he?

I did get in a fight in that room, yeah.

Oh, really?

I did.

I missed that one.

I missed that week.

We told the story on the podcast, so I don't mind saying it out loud again, but the actor Eric Dane, who I now fucking love.

Yeah.

I have such a sweetness for him now.

Yeah, we all went up, had a mini, mini group over there.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Right, right, right.

He was hosting.

At Eric's.

But when we first were around each other, it was not good.

And then he threatened a dude in the meeting.

Wow.

And I said, let's go, motherfuckers.

I saw no things get.

In the middle of the meeting, he goes, if you hit that timer again, I'm going to fucking throw you in that candle.

That was right at the time.

And I go, that's it, motherfucker.

Let's go.

Stand up.

Let's go outside.

He stands up.

We go outside.

And I'm going to beat the fuck out of him in Tom's driveway.

At an AA meeting.

At an AA meeting.

We're coming for healing and understanding.

And then, but what's great is we're friends now and we told that story on the podcast.

Yeah, it was fun.

And it's like quite a hilarious beginning for us because now I love him.

But anyways, I set all that up just to say is I felt very compassionate to what you go through.

And I didn't, I never sweated you.

I wasn't like coming up to you.

Hey man, I'm Dax.

Nice to meet you.

Blah, blah, blah.

So I didn't really interact a ton with you.

We'd met before that.

We'll say that to the end.

I think.

Okay.

I'll tell you.

Listen, I know.

Listen, it didn't make, leave a mark, but I'm pretty sure we did.

Okay.

Listen.

I think it would have left a mark.

So I don't, I didn't sweat you much.

And, and you, and I do want everyone in the world to know, like you're insanely gracious.

You learned everyone's name.

You engage with people.

I almost thought you were particularly good at assessing who was kind of low status.

And you seem to really be kind to those people.

There was a thing going and I really respected it.

It was really moving.

I mean, some, some of these men were so moving.

And then you come up to me at the end and you go, hey, are you going to this track day next week?

And I go, yeah, I am.

And then I go, oh, right.

We both know Duffy.

Yep.

This must be how you know I'm going to that track day.

And then you go.

Track day, motos.

Vehicles.

Motorcycles on the track.

Two wheels.

I know about vehicles.

Two wheels.

She's been on some vehicles.

I've been on a couple.

And you go, hey, you want to ride up on a helicopter with me?

And I go, absolutely.

Where's this going?

Who's going to say no to that?

Of course I will.

What should I wear?

Bachelor style day.

Do you have a favorite color you want me to post in?

Yes.

So, so you invited me and I was like, oh, this is incredible.

I wasn't even sure if he knew I was in this room.

And then we went on this glorious helicopter ride.

For me, it was very romantic.

Chatting the whole way.

Or were you like, you know, giving a tour?

Just slowly.

Yeah, slowly get that hand around.

No, it's just like a three-hour drive up there and something like that.

Well, it's a beat down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So to get up early and, you know.

Go do the thing.

We're talking about the time.

It was just one of those rock and roll things you get to do every now and then.

Yeah.

You said you want to go on.

I was like, yeah, I'm not sure how I'm going to get my bike there.

I'm saying yes whether I'm a bike or not.

I'll ride someone else's.

Yeah.

Let it be known.

Dax is rapid.

He's quick.

He's fast.

You brought him here to give you so many compliments.

The record also reflects Brad's very fast too.

Okay.

No, not that much on two wheels.

I wasn't as quick as these guys or Channing.

Well, he's been doing it a long time.

Channing was annoyingly good really quick.

Really good.

Really good.

And I'm like, yeah, he's one of these athletes that can kind of do every single.

Like Lewis.

We had Toto on him.

And Toto was like, you know, Lewis is one of these guys that drives you crazy.

He can do everything.

Just he tries it and he's immediately fast.

You know.

You just kind of got to do like a subdue Schwarzenegger.

It is.

It's almost the same.

And it's bang on.

Yeah.

Like if Schwarzenegger went to a four-year college.

I have a quick question about the meeting before we leave the meeting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Go.

When you first get there, are you thinking, like when it's going around, are you thinking, are people going to talk about me specifically?

Like, is there any nerves going into a meeting when you have, you do have to be very vulnerable and you know, like people there might have an extra interest in my story?

So I've heard of stories where like Philip Seymour Hoffman went to one and someone videoed it and put it out.

Yeah, see, that's scary.

But I've been assured by another friend this was a safe place.

Two, I'm like, I am, I mean, I am a stubborn fuck, but I am also, when I've stepped in shit, I'm pretty good at taking responsibility for it and owning up to it.

Yeah.

And, and now it's a quest to, you know, what do I do with this?

What, you know, how, how, how can I write this and, and, and make sure it doesn't happen again or I just.

Be better.

Yeah.

Be better.

Be better.

Yeah.

Step up.

And, um, so I was really open to that and I was really open to see what these guys were doing who had their thing and been there for a while.

Sure.

I was a bit, um, a bit shy.

I'm a, I'm, I can generally be a bit shy in any kind of situation first, but I don't know.

I just remember getting my arms around it pretty quickly and really, really, really, yeah.

It became a thing for me.

It was really like something I'd look forward to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Me too.

That was a very kind of special.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's hard even in like therapy, even me in therapy who no one cares, but I'm like,

should I tell my therapist?

Could care less.

But I'm like, should I tell her everything?

What if she goes, what if she tells somebody something?

There's just like, there's always that.

Oh, no.

I didn't know when I jumped into therapy then I was just a blah, blah, blah.

And I did this and I did that and da, da, da.

And I did that.

Good for you.

That's good.

Trusting.

Or.

Stupid.

Desperate.

Well, desperate's a good reason.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't come into AA because everything's working out fantastic.

No, that's usually not the entry point.

It's not the winner's club.

Yeah, most people, like your hair's got to be on fire before you go like, yeah, I'll go hang with a bunch of dudes and talk about emotions.

My feelings.

My feelings.

Yeah.

It's not the most appealing offering.

I want to know about Missouri.

Yeah.

Because I think we've bonded over this before.

And you saying I want more green in my life is something that I constantly think of.

It's like, I just fuck, lakes is in my DNA.

Yeah, you and me both.

I hadn't read, shocking, I hadn't read Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, any of that until maybe two months ago I read both.

Amazing.

And now I'm reading the Chernow biography on Mark.

Yeah, I just got it.

I picked it up.

Yeah.

Good?

Is it great?

Yeah.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

It looks really good.

How close were you to where he grew up?

It would have been the same.

It's the Ozarks.

It's the same.

It's a pretty, I mean, it's a beautiful country.

Yeah.

But it's also the Mason-Dixon line, North and South fought there.

It's a birthplace of televangelism.

Oh, wow.

A lot of meth labs in the, you know, it can be.

Yeah.

There is this dichotomy that's kind of always at play.

And because it's this confluence of Midwestern and Southern and it, I don't know, it all kind of flattens out there in a way, at least like, you know, our accents are kind of more like this.

We just kind of like talk like this and we just keep on going and just, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And your dad owned a trucking company?

At the tail end, he did.

He ran a trucking company.

He did?

Yeah.

Was he himself a truck driver?

No.

He wasn't?

No.

But I worked there.

You did?

Yeah.

Yeah.

On the docks.

Loading.

No, they didn't let me load.

They didn't let you.

They didn't let you near the forklift.

Yeah, yeah.

And mom was a counselor?

She was a teacher and then was, you know, raised us and then got more into counseling after we left.

Okay.

So what kind of, you have a very confusing, when I go through my stereotypes of where I grew up in Michigan, people didn't play tennis and they didn't really, they weren't swimmers.

Like your sports are, I can't really put you in a box.

You were an athlete, but you were doing, you were golfing and swimming.

Never golfed.

You didn't golf.

That's...

No, I rebelled against golfing because everyone was golfing.

Oh.

Okay, okay.

Well, it was rebelling against, it was kind of the sport of the, it felt like the sport of the religious right, a little bit to me.

Oh, interesting.

And so my dad, like, he did all right and he gave us, you know, we were middle class.

He gave us, you know, certainly much better than what he had, you know, coming, he was outhouse poor, Oklahoma, and gave us much better opportunities.

But that one, that one, I don't know, I had a bug up my ass about that one.

Yeah.

And yet, I watch all the, I watch all the, the masters, the, I love them.

I find them so relaxing and amazing.

And they're great to take a nap to, right?

And they're good to doze and come back in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not much has happened.

Come in and see, like, you know, whole 16, 17, 18.

That's not really a good selling point.

Like, it's good to nap to.

Yeah.

You like napping?

But it is incredible what these guys do.

Yeah, it is.

It's incredible.

It's amazing.

I had no interest in it and then I got sucked into Full Swing, which is the same fucking company that did Drive to Survive.

Love that one.

Everything they make, I watch.

Yeah, me too.

Do you watch the jockey one?

No.

The race for the Triple Crown?

No, but we just did one with them.

Oh, you did?

Isle of Man, TT.

Oh, my God.

Wait, what?

Four episodes, Channing, with Channing's company.

No.

And then Channing's going to do a film.

Yeah.

Oh, baby.

You've been then?

I've never been.

Okay, that's what we'll do together.

Have you been?

No.

This is the most insane race.

Absolutely insane.

And you want to race in it?

No.

No.

Okay.

Oh, my God.

These guys are another breed.

I've told you about this race.

A couple people die every single race.

Yeah, that sounds horrible.

Not last year.

Last year they got through.

Was that the one you were filming at?

Because that would be good.

Yeah, yeah.

You got lucky.

But even the MotoGP guys go, those guys are fucking nuts.

It's crazy.

Crazy.

Okay, great.

We're right here.

What it enrages in me is you're a coward.

I'm so afraid to do that.

And now, weirdly, I have got to do that because I'm a coward if I don't do this.

That's what drove me to it.

He has so much shame.

What drove you to it?

There is that white trash side of the Ozarks of that component.

And, you know, growing up, you know, getting on a minibike and being at the lake and in bass boats.

And my dad would give it to us at 12 and we'd take the boat out on ourselves.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then driving too early and driving on dirt roads, driving in the rain, driving in the ice, you know.

Did it snow there?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, four seasons.

Four good seasons.

Driving in the snow is the funnest thing a young man can do.

Yeah, except you hit the black ice and it'll surprise you.

Yeah.

The motorcycle thing, just you started watching it.

No, I had one when I was a kid and then kind of lost it in the 90s and then got back on it.

I'd kind of watched a little bit, you know, in the McDoing period when he was winning MotoGP.

Yeah.

And that's a crazy story because he had a horrible accident in the early 90s, horrible accident in the race.

They were going to take his leg.

He said, don't, please don't, don't.

You may not.

They revolutionized this thing that's now it's common practice where they fused his two legs together to get blood supply.

Whoa.

And worked, got up, won five championships.

What?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now his son is Jack Doan, who was driving for Alpine.

Oh my, that's his son?

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

He's a rookie this year?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

I had no idea.

I just had a flashback.

Did you ever go to Demolition Derby?

Oh, God, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So Demolition Derby is a bunch of guys getting a car, any kind of car.

Usually station wagons won because they would go in reverse, and they just bang the shit out of each other, and the last man standing wins.

Yeah.

And sometimes there's a figure eight.

But I went to those a lot, so, and then I had a crazy uncle who was a preacher, had this kind of Elvis hairdo, and he raced stock cars.

Oh, wow.

You know, in the dirt.

You just grew up around it.

Yeah.

How much were you, like, in search of masculinity?

I was deeply, my story is, my dad wasn't around, so I was like, whatever the dude said to do, you know, ride a wheelie, jump your bike, whatever the thing was, fight, I was racing towards it because I just, I had, I had to get some kind of masculine validation.

Were you in search of that?

I never, I never put that much thought into it.

My dad was a pretty cool customer, and I think I absorb it a lot.

I, you know, I see it in my roles.

I either, I'm either doing him or I'm rebelling against him in some way.

Oh, fun, yeah.

Is he with us still?

Yes, he's still with us.

Okay.

And 83, going to see him next week.

Oh.

He's pretty cool.

He was pretty cool.

But, you know, going to the drive-in theater started, you know, all my life.

They didn't have a lot of money, so we would pop popcorn.

By the time we got there, it was wet.

They'd make Kool-Aid, and we'd go sit on the, you know, on the front of the big Buick and watch movies.

We had, in our neighborhood, we had a drive-in theater.

Yeah, but also these ideas of masculinity because we've seen a lot of Clint Eastwood, we would see Butch and Sundance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you have brothers and sisters?

I got a younger brother, younger sister.

Yeah.

Okay, so you're firstborn.

Yeah.

That wouldn't have been my guess.

Yeah, you don't read as firstborn.

Why?

You're kind of too nice.

What was your thing?

Because I'm firstborn.

We are bossy, I suppose.

I think I associate that type of adventure with a middle or youngest.

Ah, okay.

Yeah, because you're trying, that's the other thing.

I had an older brother, five years older than me, so whatever he was doing, I was trying to do.

Yeah.

So he was in a BMX, and then I was in a BMX, and he was in a skateboard.

You're always trying to raise, I feel like you're always trying to, like, raise the stakes when you're a younger sibling.

Improve yourself.

That'd be my brother, certainly.

Really?

Always getting in trouble.

Yeah.

Is he wild?

He was wild then.

Now he's uber successful, and, you know, whatever he takes on, he masters it.

But that was the thing, I think, when you talk about masculinity, maybe I put it in terms of capability, because that was kind of a big thing with my dad.

You know, you get up and you do it, and he had us working, you know, we'd be mowing the lawn at eight, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, you shouldn't be around these blades and things.

Dumping them.

But all my life, I had a, you know, I had a job.

Okay, so maybe that's another, another thing I chase and maybe do is competence.

Competence is so hot.

Yeah, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna agree with you.

You've talked about all those sports, like, I was okay at all of them.

Yeah.

I wasn't great at any of them.

Yeah.

I didn't stick with any of them long enough to be great at them, you know, not that I even could.

Yeah.

But to be competent in all of them, yeah.

Did you ever have to beat anyone up to save your brother?

No.

In fact, I remember he got in fights before I did even.

Oh, yeah.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Yeah, I remember getting in a fight and I grabbed a guy in the balls.

Like, oh my God.

It worked.

Yeah.

That's what they tell you.

Desperation.

Desperation again.

It worked.

I wonder why it worked, though.

Was it because it hurt so bad or because everyone's such a homophobe back there?

Oh, fuck, he's getting away.

Run away.

Was that happening then?

Was there like a lot of like, you have to be, like, you know, calling a wuss?

Yeah, don't cry.

It's still happening, though.

We thought it was gone.

And then we were talking to Dax's kid the other day.

And I was like, all of this.

She was like, this kid in my class is racist.

And she was like telling, and I'm like, he is racist.

Oh, yeah, like crazy racist in L.A. school.

And there were like 10.

And I thought it was done.

And it's just like, maybe it's just human nature to be cruel.

It is, I think.

Yeah.

And nice.

Yeah, yeah.

No, benevolent is the word I was looking for.

Yeah.

Okay, so you go to University of Missouri.

Yeah.

You must have had pretty good grades.

Yeah, it was all right.

That was a good school to get into.

Yeah, I was good in.

Good enough.

All right.

Good enough.

Yeah, good enough.

And you wanted to do journalism?

I wanted to do architecture, but there wasn't an architectural path at Mizzou.

But they had the best journalism school.

Okay.

And then I thought, well, okay, I don't really want to interview people, but I'll design magazines or movie posters.

Really, that's what I thought.

So it was going kind of the design angle.

Had you read Fountainhead already?

I had not read Fountainhead.

Okay.

Let's talk about Fountainhead for one second.

Okay.

I'm not a big fan, by the way, of Fountainhead.

You're not.

No.

I, 20 years ago, read some interview with you.

Yeah.

I swore it said you liked Fountainhead.

I'm like.

I think I did then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is what I want to talk about.

Yeah.

Because I was like, I'm going to check that book out.

This is his favorite book.

I read it and I was like, oh yeah, Howard Rourke.

I want to be Howard Rourke.

Like I'm right.

No matter what happens, it's just proven I'm right.

Yeah.

That's a very appealing archetype when you're young.

For people who haven't read it, what is he like?

Howard Rourke is basically Frank Lloyd Wright, right?

That's the kind of model.

That's the ideas model on, yeah, Ayn Rand modeled it off Frank Lloyd Wright.

Yeah.

So he would design things for people, but he wasn't really interested in what they wanted.

He was a genius and he would come in and he would build something for you.

Let me show you what you want.

Got it.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's his vision.

You know, certainly people would be against it, but when it was all over, he would be right.

And I think when you're 20, you're like.

True.

Yeah, man, that's.

Validation.

Yes.

I was right.

Yeah.

That's all you want.

Yeah.

I'm a genius.

And there was also this idealism of like, you know, she came from socialism and this idea of an individual voice and supporting the individual voice, I think, meant a lot to her.

And I think is the basis behind this.

And so as a young person, you read the idealism because, spoiler alert, you know, he'll burn it all down if you take his thing and corrupt it.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

There was no group sport in it.

So in this day and age, blowing up buildings is not really.

It's not cool.

Yeah.

Not cool.

It's not the course you want to take.

There's other ways to handle it, probably.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you already had loved architecture.

So yeah, if you already loved architecture and you're in your 20s and you read that book,

it's like, this thing was written for me.

Yeah.

Then did you read Atlas Shrugged?

Yes.

Yeah.

And?

James Galt.

What is it?

Galt.

Galt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I read it and I just thought, and then I went.

Yeah.

It fell apart for me reading that.

I know.

I know.

I know so many people love this book, but for me, it was like, we're special and we're going to keep our specialness to us.

And I don't know.

It just didn't.

Yeah.

Similar theme, I guess.

It was all about individualism.

Yeah.

But it was also this entitlement to just that our opinion is right and we're best and we're going to keep it to ourselves because you don't deserve us.

Yeah.

You know, this kind of, I don't know.

Compromise would be a very ugly word for her or any of those books.

Right.

Yeah.

Now, is this true that you left college a week before graduation?

No, I actually went through graduation.

Oh.

I just didn't finish my last week of classes and actually graduate, but my parents were already coming.

Oh.

Oh, you went to the ceremony, but you didn't graduate.

Fucking walk the line, hat and all, cap.

You wanted to be able to throw your hat.

Well, sure.

It's very fun.

I'm going to miss that.

That's a crazy fucking decision.

No, because I decided to come to L.A.

Uh-huh.

You only had one week left.

I had one week left, but what's the Spike Jonze movie adaptation?

I remember when Chris Cooper goes, he talks about, he's into, what is the, the flowers?

Yeah, the lotus.

Yeah.

Yes.

Lotuses?

No, it wasn't a lotus.

Orchids.

Orchids.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he talked about his former, Jones was about, was about fish or some kind of fish breeding.

She said, she, I think it was Meryl asking what happens and he says, done with fish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It felt like that for me.

It just like, done.

I don't want to do this.

I talked to a friend.

They had, it never occurred to me.

I could, like, I was kind of lamented that movies weren't an option.

I'd always loved movies.

I met this friend whose dad had a condo in Burbank and said I could stay there for one month.

Ugh.

And I went.

Green light.

I'm going to it.

I'm going to it.

And he moved to Beverly.

Wow.

What car did you drive out for that?

Datsun 200SX.

Oh, wow.

With the bumper hanging off.

Okay.

It wasn't in great shape.

Do you still have it?

No.

Oh.

Sometimes it's fun to have those old, original.

Do you fantasize about getting any of the stupid cars you have?

Because I had a 91 Honda Civic DX for a decade here.

That's funny.

And I want to get one and make it fucking fast.

I was just looking at my dad at a 74 Monte Carlo and I was just looking that up.

You got to get it.

I was just looking it up.

You got to get it.

Just for fun.

Just a little tribute.

How often are you scrolling those cars?

Be honest.

Yeah, just bring a trailer to your porn.

Almost as often as I'm scrolling Zillow.

Yeah, I know.

Zillow will really get you.

I love house porn.

House porn, car porn, bike porn.

Well, you've been in this situation for a long time, but for so long it was just I dreamt about it.

And then I could do it.

And then I did it.

I bought too much stuff.

I saw the toys out there.

It's fun.

And this is me now like constrained.

So I have these like rules I have to have in place.

Like I have to look at the car like 10 times and I got to want it still in four months.

You know, like.

So you make sure that you put the time in to make it worth its while.

That's right.

Because I'm dangerous.

I get on bring a trailer and I'm like, oh my fucking God, I need that thing so bad.

Okay, so you drove out in a Datsun.

And I did hear a funny story about you wanting to get your SAG card and interjecting a line.

Oh, I got shut down so hard.

Will you tell Monica that?

Oh, did I get shut down?

I was doing extra work for about a year and a half before I even got into.

You know.

Got to do something real.

I was doing.

I was an extra.

Yeah.

And I was thrilled.

I loved it.

I couldn't believe I'd be on set.

Yeah.

And I started that, I mean, when I landed in Burbank, I got the paper, I went to McDonald's.

I had $275 left in my name.

There were three extra agencies.

You could pay them 25 bucks and you were in.

I found it in the paper and I got in.

The next day, I'm going, I'm rolling.

I'm doing an industrial, industrial like video by the end of the week.

Yeah.

And, and I get this, I get this gig.

You're already inflating what happened.

I'm an extra in this movie.

I land this role.

I land this.

The job is extra.

It's a waker.

But the funny thing that when I started, I put them on like a resume like they were real.

Yeah.

And it still haunts me.

Oh, sure.

It's still like on my.

Anyways.

That's great.

I'm like a jackass.

And it's, it's a restaurant scene and it's the main characters, Charlie Sheen and D.B.

Sweeney and then, and a bunch of other actors that I wasn't necessarily aware of.

And I am the waiter.

I'm supposed to bring up champagne and pour champagne.

Okay.

And they show me how to do it.

You got to pour.

Yeah.

You spin, you wipe the thing.

I said, great.

That's more than an extra.

I come in.

Well, it was a chosen extra.

I got chosen.

I was chosen.

I got put forward.

Oh, my God.

And the whole game was, how do you get your SAG card?

Yeah.

Because you can't get a job if you don't have your SAG card.

But you can't get your SAG card unless you've had a job.

I know.

So, it was just catch 22.

Specifically, you need to speak.

Yeah.

You got to speak.

Yeah.

That was the, that was the finish line.

Barrier to entry.

Yes.

And like a jackass, they're having the scene.

They're doing the scene.

I get to the last, the last actor, and she seemed lower on the totem pole.

Like, I thought, maybe.

And literally, the scene is going on.

Oh, it's going on.

I pour her champagne, and I go, would you like anything else?

I want the dailies from that.

Me too.

Listen to this.

Listen to this.

Oh, my God.

It was cut, cut, cut.

First AD runs over.

You do that again, you're out of here.

Oh, my God.

And it was just Shane for the rest of the night.

That's so funny.

Took a shot.

Yeah.

Look, it was there.

These are the best stories.

Favreau has one.

Took a shot.

Favreau is an extra.

I think it's like a Hoffman, Hoffer or something.

Something's shooting in Chicago when he lives there.

He's an extra, and he's in a van, and he's driving through the background of a scene.

And it occurs to him, they're not going to be able to see me.

There's not enough light in here.

No.

So, he decides, I'm going to turn on the interior lights, and I'm going to drop the visor and turn that light on.

And so, like, take three, someone finally noticed, like, what's going on with the fucking

extra?

Why is it extra lit in the van?

I'm just saying, God, God, God, boy, you can't light yourself.

Oh, my God.

Industrious, though.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, we're desperate at that time.

Yeah.

It's so endearing.

It's so hard.

It is.

It's sweet.

So, how long before you were, like, I guess when Thelma and Louise, how long before we

get back?

They would say, what, five years.

If you're not working in five years, like, go home.

Mm-hmm.

And I got that at year four.

We just need to honorably mention, Monica and I's shared favorite movie is seven.

Yeah.

It's actually hard for me to, with you sitting there, think it's you.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because we've watched it so, it's that thing.

We've watched it so many times.

It's such a good movie.

It holds up.

It does hold.

Oh, it does hold.

That is good.

That's David Fincher.

That's Andy, Kevin Walker.

Yeah.

But the two of you also, like, ugh.

Yeah.

Yeah, what about working with Morgan?

I interviewed Morgan this year.

Yeah.

With the gun down, David.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

No, he's the voice of God.

Really?

But that was, like, I had hit a point.

I had, oh, man, 94.

Wasn't 94 such a bugged out year?

That's Cobain.

That's OJ.

Oh.

The whole summer.

Wow, yeah.

And I had, oh, man, I had not such great experiences coming off a couple of jobs.

And I just wasn't really sure.

I wasn't sure.

I wasn't sure what I was doing.

I had the weirdest summer.

I had this girlfriend who was into reptiles.

We bought 40 chameleons.

I was living in Errol Flynn's old, like, bachelor pad, glass windows.

And they were filled with terrarium.

Our house was like a terrarium.

Girlfriend who was into reptiles.

In 40.

It's so specific.

Not five or 10.

I know.

I know.

And he's showing off, like, we'll take them all.

I would get up.

It was the most unhealthy time.

I just needed to check out.

And I would wake up with a, I'd get a bong load.

I would have four Coca-Colas on ice.

Yeah.

No food.

Dude, like, this particular summer.

And I've watched the OJ trial.

Yeah.

It's just a, and trying to figure out what do I do next?

What do I do next?

And then I read this script.

My dear friend and manager and basically my sister now.

Cynthia sends this over.

She says, you got to read this.

I read the first seven pages.

I call her up.

I go, are you kidding me?

Like, the cliche.

The old cop wants out.

The young cop comes in.

He's looking at his trophies.

His high school football trophies on it.

She goes, just finish it.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then I go meet Finch.

And he's just been, like, he was just talking about films.

Like, I'd never heard anyone speak about film and.

Yeah, what had he made already?

Wow.

Just Alien 3.

And he had had a crap experience on that.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

And got fired off it three times.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

Oh, my God.

And I just got the Jones back and finding that thing kind of, it just reinvigorated what I wanted out of this thing, what's possible.

Can I argue there's a humility to that performance that I'm wondering, is that, was that new?

Because you're coming off of California.

Like, I watched California and that's kind of the dream role I would want to play growing up.

Like, that's who I want to play.

Hey, Dale, put your titty back in your shirt.

Hey, Dale, put your titty back up.

Back up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, that's who I want to be.

I want to drink the fucking beer and be a badass and all that stuff.

And so to go play, you're kind of a putz in Seven.

Yeah.

But it's that thing about, you know, when you, it's the naivete or even the hubris that you think you know the world.

And that's what I liked about the Mills character.

You know, you think you grow up in this vacuum, you see the world as your own backyard and you do not appreciate that there are people who think differently than you.

Yeah.

Have ulterior motives.

Other beauties believe different beliefs.

And that was always, I don't know, that's always been a kind of a theme for me.

This idea of your own hubris is the only time, anytime I've ever gotten knocked down, it's been because of hubris.

It's been because I think I know what's going on.

Yeah.

I think I know the score.

Yeah.

But you got to like, you got to go in there and say lines like, no, he's fucking dancing around his grandma's underpants or whatever the hell that line is.

Like there's no vanity in that.

No, he thinks he understands there's good and there's bad, there's black and there's white and that's the world and bad guys got to go.

It's that kind of stupidity.

Was it already the situation where it's like a bazillion takes?

Was that at all?

Because I entered this with a lot of insecurity.

Like, I'm not sure I belong here.

And if that would have triggered for me, like I suck.

That like tons of takes.

I think that's a misperception of, I mean, I don't think it's completely fair.

Okay.

For my friend, David Fincher.

I don't, I really don't.

Cause I think he's brilliant and he knows what he wants.

The only time I ever did that where I had, that was on Fight Club and it was a big, big steady cam shot outside in the parking lot, coming into the bar, going down, starting the Fight Club.

Yeah.

That one, I remember that was like 40 takes, but that's, they're so technical.

And so usually there's a technical aspect of it, or if he needs to beat the acting out of the actor, which is the Kubrick way.

And that's the only time I've ever seen it flare up in that way.

It never triggered your insecurities.

He is not shy to do it.

No.

In fact, I was more insecure the first three takes, four takes.

I'm trying to find my way.

Okay.

So I've actually won a lot.

And I feel, at that time I'd feel safer.

Now, like two takes, please.

Yeah.

I got to get home.

To stitch together.

Yeah.

I didn't do the first one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Take the one and take that and you can edit.

I guess it's true.

If you're doing that many, you feel safe that one, one has worked.

I did, but it was so important to me.

It was really important.

How much insecurity were you working with at that period?

I've always, yeah, I've always, that first half of the career, I think was, yeah, a lot of insecurities.

Yeah.

It's scary.

You're never, and always doubting, you know, you get in there and you get the ring, in the ring and you have this amount of time and that, that, that's comfortized.

That goes into cement and that's it.

You're also, it's not like you necessarily had some long period where you're working with okay actors.

You're also pretty immediately working with some fucking game.

Like, I don't know, Legends of the Fall, you're, you're, you're with Anthony Hopkins

right out of the gate.

Yeah.

It was cool.

Yeah.

I, I feel like my learning has really been on film.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's also, it came from just a love of movies and love of performance and wanting to make sure, make sure I got it right.

Make sure I, like there's this idea right.

And what you learn to understand is it's just being truthful.

And if it's truthful, it's going, it's going to play.

What's the first time you felt that?

Oh, that's a good question, Monty.

It is a good question.

Cause it, cause, oh man, I just know the best moments.

I started figuring out in the nineties were things I hadn't planned for.

They were being in the moment and then it flows.

I'm not sure when I'm good and not.

Like there's times I thought I was great and I'm just okay.

And there's times I think I suck and I'm kind of good.

That's the early stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fucking rock that one.

And you look at it and you go, oh my God.

I do have some moments.

One of the first one was in this, was in this like teen horror film.

One of my very first jobs.

And for some reason, I know I was thinking I was Sean Penn.

I walk, I run into high school.

I see a dead teacher and I go, no.

No.

You know, like, like, I don't even know this guy.

You wish you had a wall of the wall.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Was it your street car moment?

Exactly.

I'm afraid to ask you this one, but here we go.

Have you ever heard this, this Cary Grant quote?

Everyone wants to be Cary Grant.

Even I want to be Cary Grant.

Yeah.

You heard that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You relate to that at all?

Maybe in the earlier years.

I don't know.

I don't even think much about perception anymore.

Yeah.

But yeah, certainly people look at you this way and I don't feel that good.

Yeah.

They look at me like this.

Other people look at me like I'm an asshole and I go, I feel a little better than that.

Yeah.

And yeah, you run into that.

But in that, I don't know.

I don't think that, I don't think about perception much anymore.

I believe in what I'm doing.

I think I can, I understand my craft.

I feel like I elevate the jobs I'm in and I make sure I do and I put the work in.

I work hard.

Yeah.

When were you able to drop that?

I made a big switch.

I remember going in the 90s going, you could plug any one of us into this role, this kind of movie, this leading man kind of thing.

It's all going to be the same.

So that's boring.

And then, and it's really about chasing an image.

And then somewhere I made a switch in the early aughts where I said, I'm just going to, I know the movies I've enjoyed this far and why, and I'm just going to take things that I really, really, I'm not taking anything because someone tells me it should, or it's good, or someone else is going to get it if I don't.

I did a couple of those and always didn't work.

Yeah.

And I just made the switch and, and really I enjoy what I, you know, I enjoy what I do.

Now, and I'm going to admit that this is really Malcolm Gladwell's question because I admire him so much and we're pals and I called him.

I was like, I'm interviewing Pitt and I'm nervous and I want it to be great.

And I'm wondering if we have the same curiosity, like what is your great curiosity about him?

And he said, I guess I'm most curious the gap between the public Brad Pitt and the real Brad Pitt, if that gap has shrank or gotten broader.

And I thought that's a cool question.

And I guess I'm curious about that too.

You know, I, I, I don't break a lot of this down.

That's a hard, I don't know if I put it in either way because I go in and I go in hard, I work hard and then I always need to disappear and step out.

I just need to refill.

I'm not that guy that's really can be out and about in the public and people.

And I always, I've always, um, enjoyed my solitude, not my loneliness, not those periods, but the solitude and that can be with loved ones and friends or family, but the solitude and I really need it.

And like, I'm getting ready to start now this big press gauntlet juggernaut for this film that deserves to go worldwide.

And I got to go do that and I'll get up for it as I need to do.

I don't feel like I'm very good at it.

I've always been a little embarrassed, that side of it, this side of it.

And I still have that, that, that feeling each time.

And it takes a lot.

I got to get myself up for it and it takes a lot out of me.

So then I need to step back and really disappear.

And it's, that's worked well for me.

So has it gotten bigger or smaller?

Um, I think it's gotten smaller.

My relationship with it, the gaps gotten smaller.

Is the embarrassment because it feels like there's some kind of lack of humility in that

part of the job?

Yeah.

You know, we, we broke where we grew up and especially that era, you know, you're a, you're a braggart.

If you talk about yourself, you are, um, you're conceited, you're, and I got accused of that.

I think a lot as a kid, even just being quiet, we'd get accused of being conceited or something.

And, and I didn't, I didn't understand that.

And, and then there's just the, I think the fear I'll always have just putting my foot in my mouth or stepping in a pile of shit and, you know what I mean?

I've never considered this my specialty.

You know, I'd rather make things, whether that's a chair or a shirt or a movie and let it speak for itself and move on and get to the next.

But, you know, we gotta, we gotta support our, it's, this is a group sport and we gotta support it.

But my arc, which is, I'm embarrassed to even try to compare it to yours, but my arc was, I wanted it so bad.

It happened.

It was so fun for a minute.

Then I was at a, uh, what was the hamburger restaurant I love down in Austin?

I was making idiocracy and I was in Fuddruckers and I was like, oh, that table of people staring at me.

Oh, that, that table's also staring at me.

And I remember calling, leaving the restaurant, calling my girlfriend and like almost in tears going like, I feel so, um, out of control.

Like I feel like the whole, I have no control over my environment anymore.

And it felt very claustrophobic.

Yeah.

And then I, then I hated it.

And then I came to accept it.

And then even more profound in therapy, I, a few years back, the dude really figured out or helped me figure it out.

I feel very fraudulent receiving that attention.

I don't feel worthy of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's fair enough.

But when you say worthy, because the importance isn't there that, that, that it's looked at from afar, like it's important in some way.

And I have a, I have a similar version of that.

I mean, the way I was able to get my arms around it was, um, um, I just remember the kid when I fought, when I saw my first celebrity, I first saw, I moved here and in a week I saw John Cusack at a, perfect, at a fishbone concert.

I embarrassed the person with me because I was like, I thought about that.

And they were like, shut, shut up.

You're in LA.