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Explore the evolution of a Hollywood star's career, from wrestling roots to A-list acting. Discover insights on work ethic, personal growth, tackling challenging roles, and finding joy in the pursuit of passion projects.
Published November 11, 2024
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Dwayne Johnson
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Interviewer: You spent a lot of your childhood in the backseat of a car, driving from town to town as your dad wrestled. Can you tell me more about that experience and how it shaped you?
Interviewee: It was challenging as a kid to constantly be moving, not having that stability, not having roots, having to make new friends. I was an only child.
Interviewer: Now I've reached a point in my life where, yes, you've got to make hay when the sun is out. However, I want to make sure that the hay I make is the hay that I love to make. So where are we right now? My sanctuary. You know how you need those places to, like, unplug?
Interviewee: If you were to look at your, like, professional life, I'd be like, that guy doesn't unplug. I look what I look like. I am what I am. It's true. There is no, oh, rock is just going to disappear. You know what I mean? Who is that guy right now? But yeah, I need this kind of place. It's so nice to come and unplug and reset and really to see no one, you know, because I feel like the moment I walk out the door, that's when the whirlwind starts. It kicks up. Are you good at seeing people? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like, am I an asshole, you mean? Peaceful spot. I'm glad you're here, man. You know, I don't have anybody ever come out. I'm honored.
Interviewer: Do you know how to work the pole?
Interviewee: I think, I think I know how to work the pole. The baler, right? Yeah, you got it. Open the bale, right? Uh-huh. You got it. So open the bale. Open the bale. There you go. And just toss it out, right? Toss it out. Boom. Oh, perfect. Yes.
Interviewer: What do you like about fishing?
Interviewee: The calmness of it. And I also like the strategy of it. You know, when you try and figure out what lure to use, what time of day it is, what the weather's looking like, if it's overcast. Also, it was the thing that I was able to do with my old man. One of the things that we would do to spend time together, which wasn't a lot of stuff, but fishing was one of them.
Interviewer: Are those fond memories?
Interviewee: Oh, yeah. My dad, yeah, for sure.
Interviewer: Where would you guys fish?
Interviewee: We'd fish all over the place. So my dad was, he was a pro wrestler. And back in the 70s and 80s, when wrestling wasn't as globalized or as monopolized as it is today, there were like these little promotions and like fiefdoms all around the country. So we would stay in a city and in a town for maybe a year where he would wrestle locally and then pick up and move again. So to answer your question directly, we would fish all the time just on the road. I spent a lot of my childhood in the backseat of the car going from town to town as he wrestled. And we'd always carry fishing poles in the trunk. And as we're rolling along the highway, if we saw a body of water somewhere, he'd be like, hey, let's stop and fish.
Interviewer: What was that like for you just being somewhere new all the time?
Interviewee: It was challenging as a kid growing up, like moving every year, year and a half. At that time in pro wrestling in the 80s and 70s, you had about a year, year and a half run in whatever wrestling promotion you were in. And then you hit the road and you go to another state. And that's what we did.
Interviewer: What was your father like as a teacher?
Interviewee: It was tough love with him. Very little patience with shit, like one of these guys. And he came up in an era where he had to fight for everything. Black pro wrestler at that time in the 60s and 70s, mainly throughout the South. So, you know, you can imagine not only in the South, but then pro wrestling. And at that time, that crowd, that pro wrestling crowd was not what it is today. And today it's very diverse. Right. Back then, pro wrestling. Super white. Super white. Yeah. Super white. Super white. So, he, very little patience. Nice guess. There you go. Very little patience, but raised me with a tough hand. Physical. Not, didn't beat my ass or anything like that, but just, our bonding was, as a very young age, was, you could come to the gym with me at five and six years old, but you just gotta sit. Right. So, I just, just sat in the gym and just watched him and his, you know, his wrestler workout buddies just work out, and then, but six, seven, eight, what he would do, then after he was done working out, he would take me on the wrestling mats at the gym. Because usually he was at a YMCA or a boys club or something like that, and that's when he would, he'd beat my ass that way, in terms of teaching me wrestling, basics and things like that.
Interviewer: I think the connective tissue between your childhood growing up and what you do today is performing for sure, watching my dad perform, and just being around an audience, even if it was a small audience at that time, but also, I think just growing up in the way that I did, and having to grow up very fast. By the time I hit 13, 14, 15, a lot of shit went down in my life.
Interviewer: It's interesting that you keep saying 13, because that's the age that your dad left home, too, right? That he was, he was kind of thrown out of his house by his mother, right?
Interviewee: Yes. You've talked about this. It was interesting that you kind of also associate kind of 13 with a... Yeah, with incredible, I think, challenge and discomfort at that time. Yeah. My dad, yes, you did your research. Thank you for saying that. So, you have an awesome relationship with your dad, which I love, by the way. I told you that when we were fishing. I'm like, dude, that's so good. When you're thrown out at 13, and your mom picks her boyfriend over you, that's a hard place to come back from, and that will inform how you love people, and what you care for in life, and how you care about people. So, it was really fucked up. That really damaged my dad. So, his limited capacity to love is what raised me.
Interviewer: How do you think he felt about your success, given that, you know, you went into his business?
Interviewee: I don't think he liked it.
Interviewer: Really?
Interviewee: No. No, but that's okay. Sure. It's okay, because contextually, he was kicked out at 13. That informed how he loved. That informed his empathy, his capacity, all these things. I didn't realize that until much later. So, we fought. He didn't want me to get into it. And then when I got into it, things were different, and then I wound up having the career that I had. He was proud, but he also wrestled with a lot of my success, and I know that as his son, and that's okay, because of his capacity.
Interviewer: A lot of people would be angrier than you seem to be.
Interviewee: It's different, though, Zach, because my dad, you know, he's walking in the clouds now, and I think when he was around, my perspective on this was different. And we had still a contentious, kind of complicated relationship when he was alive. And it would be loving. It would be complicated. Loving, complicated. It would vacillate back and forth all the time. So, when he dies suddenly...
Interviewer: Four years ago, yeah.
Interviewee: Four years ago, and you don't get a chance to say goodbye, you don't get a chance to write the shit that you want to write, meaning make it right, you know, you look at things differently. And now, it's like anybody who loses somebody, and you're like, man, you know, the shit I used to be upset about, it's really not that important. So, while you still have your dad around, who is retiring now, he's going to love seeing this, after a great career in medicine, you know, take advantage of that time.
Interviewer: What do you feel like you inherited from him, for good or for, you know, for good or for bad?
Interviewee: Sure. One of the most important things that I learned from my dad is that, regardless of your circumstances, even if things are fucked up around you, you can change that by going to work.
Interviewer: Ah! Hold on. Let me see that, Zach. Let me see that one. Thank you. I think something over there. Let me see. You always throw them back? I do. You've never been like, it's trout for dinner? There is trout in here, though, but no. I love this. I feel like the competitive mindset is coming out. It is. All right, one more. Two more. I believe. Let's go. You believe. All right, last cast. Is this pride? Let's call it. No, no, no. Let's call it.
Interviewer: Earlier, I was asking if you were comfortable doing nothing, because I think the default is so often the other way. Like, in what way, Zach? Like, the default goes the other way, like in... Two movies coming out this fall, right? Yeah. A movie called Red One, Milano Two. Just finished shooting a movie called Smashing Machine. Yeah. I don't know, I can't even list all your businesses. You have many businesses. Kids to raise? Kids to raise. And I'm like, this guy's default is 100 miles an hour.
Interviewee: You know, we're all busy. We're all on this treadmill that just keeps rolling and rolling. We all have that version of push and pull energy, where people want stuff. They need answers from you. They want stuff from you. Any opportunity that I get to come here to the farm, man, I take it.
Interviewer: But you're in a position, if you wanted to, you could slow it down professionally.
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: But you don't. Why not?
Interviewee: Because I love to work, right? So I feel like that's a thing, too. Like, I have a... It's an addiction. Not the addiction, oh, I just have to be moving and have to do something and I have to work. But the addiction is, I want to do stuff that I love to do. Now, years ago, when I reached my second level, third level of life, fourth level, when I'm still trying to figure shit out as men, I believed that, oh, work begets work and you've got to make hay while the sun is out. I think you heard that phrase. But now I've reached a point in my life where, yes, you've got to make hay when the sun is out. However, I want to make sure that the hay I make is the hay that I love to make.
Interviewer: So you feel like the choices now are different because of that? Like, what's an example of that? In what way?
Interviewee: Well, we'll say 10 years ago, right when I hit my fourth level of life. And I thought, okay, well, not only does work beget work, but let's... How much work could I do that would have the greatest impact? And I found myself being in a position where, with all my studio partners, I would back myself into a date. So Christmas, X year, year and a half, two years before that, there's our date. Now here comes the film. Now we work backwards from there. And I found myself doing that for years, actually. And it worked and it served me back then because it helped build my career. And I'm grateful for that. But so these days, there is no backing into a date. Wait, that shit is gone. There's no more backing into a date. Now it's, well, let's back into the project that I love to do. Moana, that universe to help build that universe. Live action animation, Moana 2, live action Moana, Smashing Machine, for example. Red One, that I want to do and that I love to do. So let's back into projects that I love doing. Let's start there.
Interviewer: Red One and Moana 2. Different films, but I would say kind of both fall into the category of big crowd-pleasing films. Right? Kind of been a lane of yours. Is that... Do you think that's fair to say?
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: Yeah. My first question is, like, what draws you to that type of filmmaking? The thing where it's like, we're going to make this for as many people as we, you know, as we can.
Interviewee: Before I got to the WWE, I wrestled in a small wrestling company called the USWA. And it was based out of Tennessee. I lived in Memphis. Those were the days where I was making $40 per match wrestling in flea markets, used car dealerships in the parking lot. But guaranteed $40. Right. Living in Waffle House, I ate Waffle House three times a day. But the reason why I bring that up is because what you learn there in cutting your teeth in that world of pro wrestling at that level is to send everybody home happy. Now, keep in mind, Zach, reaching as many people as possible back then was 100 people. Right. 150 people. Right. So you take that mentality and you apply it. When I got into the business of Hollywood and movie making, it's like, okay, well, what kind of movies do I want to make? I want to make movies that hopefully are good, that don't suck, but also reach as many people as possible. So that mentality.
Interviewer: I think I read somewhere that this pond is stocked by a university biologist. Yeah. That's some real rich guy shit right there.
Interviewee: It's cool shit. Hold on one second. Hold on. Let me fix this. Let me see. Oh. All right. Hold on. It's all good. When I first got the property, it wasn't even stocked. It just had a bunch of catfish in it. And I wanted to really turn it into a really cool ecosystem. So instead of just calling up, you know, a local spot and say, hey, can you dump a bunch of fish in here? I thought, well, it's a beautiful piece of water. So let me call the local university and see if they have any kind of program. Luckily, they do. The University of Virginia, they have a biology program where they come out. They measure the oxygen, the depth. Oh, everything here. Yeah. And so we slowly built up this ecosystem in here. It's cool shit. You say rich guy shit. I say. But you're right. This is a shit I could not do when I had seven bucks.
Interviewer: The movie you just finished shooting, Smashing Machine, a different type of film. It's based on an amazing documentary by a guy named Mark Kerr. Yes. MMA fighter. Struggle with addiction, depression. Really interesting guy, at least from what I've seen.
Interviewee: Very. Yes.
Interviewer: Did that feel like a different kind of film for you? You know, A24 movie, Benny Safdie. Did that feel like a different kind of project?
Interviewee: A complete right turn. Right turn, left turn, a place in space that I had not ever been in before. I've done the big films. I'm grateful for the big films. And there's still a place for the big films, where you reach as many people as possible globally, but also, in a way, I got bit again. So the first time I got bit was in Morocco, the Sahara Desert, on Mummy 2. Stephen Sommers was directing, Brandon Fraser, Rachel Weisz. That was my first role ever in Hollywood, ever. Stepped on set. He yells action. When he yelled cut, I know it sounds corny, but I was like, holy shit, this is what I want to do. I'm bit. Years later, I got bit again. And what I mean by that is, I think to be able to do something where I could really sink my teeth into material and I can jump off a cliff and I could be, I could be scared to do it.
Interviewer: Sounds like you were scared to do it.
Interviewee: I was terrified. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I was, because this is, it's new material. It's Benny Safdie. It's A24. It's Emily Blunt, who is one of my best friends, but still she's one of the greatest of our generation. And I knew that this was also an opportunity for me to disappear into a character with prosthetics and also play somebody who is still alive and who has gone through the battles and wars of life, not only in the octagon and in the cages, but also, as you talked about, about addiction, about failure, about loss and mental health struggle. And that's the bug that I got bit by and thinking, oh, well, this is what I want to do.
Interviewer: So you think it'll change things going forward?
Interviewee: A hundred percent.
Interviewer: Really?
Interviewee: Yes. Now, not to say that, oh, there's no more big movies, because the big movies are fun and there's a place for them in our business. But there's also a place for me in my career where, you know, from the moment I walk out of my house, I can't hide. Yeah. But in a way, when I could disappear in a movie like Smashing Machine and some of the other things now that we're developing where it will allow me to disappear with a Benny again or an A24.
Interviewer: And you like that feeling of disappearing.
Interviewee: Man, I love it. By the way, if you think about it, Zach, that's why I love being out here.
Interviewer: Can I read you a quote I discovered while doing a little research on you? This is you talking in Rolling Stone 2018. "No one's going to see me play a borderline psychopath suffering from depression. I have friends I admire, Oscar winners, who approach our craft with the idea of, sometimes it comes out a little darker and nobody will see it, but it's for me. Great. But I have other things I can do for me. I'm going to take care of you, the audience." I saw this and I was like, didn't he just kind of, and I'm not trying to slander Mark Kerr here, it's not one-to-one, but didn't he just kind of play a borderline psychopath suffering from depression?
Interviewee: Yes. So I don't know who the fuck that guy is.
Interviewer: Yeah, who the fuck is that guy?
Interviewee: The fucking asshole.
Interviewer: I'm saying that. Do you feel like you've changed your mind?
Interviewee: I feel like I've evolved and grown. But by the way, that was my truth back then. And in 2018, six years ago or so, going on seven, I did feel that way. And I felt, I had this conceit and I idealized what my career should be at that time in 2018 of audience first. Let's take care of the audience first. So I get a piece of material, I look at it and think, okay, does this have four quadrant capability and opportunity? Audience is going to like seeing me in this role. Our audience is going to like seeing this. Our audience is going to like seeing that. What's evolved and changed, and I mean this respectfully because I love people, it's got to be for me. And now what I've realized is if it's for me, then it has to be the right thing. Whether that means, hey, a global audience or whether it means a small audience is going to see it or people might reject it, whatever it is. But I've reached that point in my career.
Interviewer: Here we go. Oh, Christ. Nice. You play golf? Yeah. You can tell. That's like the golf swing, Kev? No, it's clicked in your head. Yes. Yeah. There is that repetitive technique aspect of it, too. Do you play? I don't. Yeah. No.
Interviewer: I kind of wish you hadn't brought that up with the camera around. Why? You know? You don't like golf? It's just like, you know, I love the sport. I don't know if I love the associations for being known as a golfer. But the reality is I am, in fact, a golfer. Just athlete. Why can't we just say athlete? Athlete. You're an athlete, though. I should have said that. Watch this. We'll do it. All right, Zach. Let me see the cast again. All right. Let's go. Oh, hold on. That could have been embarrassing. Ah, perfect. Right to the spot. You an athlete? Yeah. How'd you know? I could tell. How'd you know? Yeah.
Interviewer: I got one more quote for you. I swear this is the last one. No, give me the quote. 2021, Vanity Fair. Okay. "There are a lot of actors and a lot of my friends that utilize the platform of acting to explore their emotional shit. What has worked for me is a lighter touch as it relates to that. I would prefer not to explore my emotional shit in my movies because for me, that's my responsibility to go figure out. That's a lot of sludge." Now I am diving into the sludge.
Interviewee: I mean, I have to say I'm very interested in the sludge, you know? That was 2021. We're still dealing with COVID. Things are shut down. There's a heaviness in the air still. I felt like it was my responsibility at that time to not work my emotional shit out and my emotional sludge that I would otherwise work out in therapy on the screen. And the experience of maybe working out some emotional shit in the film, what was it like for you?
Interviewee: Well, you know what you realize is you realize it's okay. Yeah. You realize, first of all, I'm lucky to have this platform that as an artist and in art, you get to express yourself in ways that I might not be able to in any other world or any other occupation.
Interviewer: I was being glib about emotional sludge, but you've talked about depression. You were talking about it before. Yes. You said football career ended. You had a first marriage. Yes. Ended. And you've talked about even 2017. I don't know exactly what happened then. But you've talked before about experiencing bouts of depression.
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: Basically.
Interviewee: Yes. You haven't been quiet about emotional stuff necessarily. But this feels like a new kind of exploration of it a little bit, right?
Interviewee: I think a convergence, Zach, of having an opportunity to potentially express myself and take an inward look at some of the material as it relates to film where you can explore some of the challenges that you deal with in life and some of the things that are really fucked up at times. So, yes, in the past I have been open. And I think it's important and critical for me to be open for the sole reason that it's good for me.
Interviewer: Really?
Interviewee: Yes. In what way? Because I feel like if I'm asked about mental health and some of the challenges I've had in the past, we should name it what it is. And it's okay to be open about it. And it's okay to be vulnerable about it. And it's okay to, at times, rip yourself open. Especially if you were like me. I grew up an only child when I was, by the time I was 13, my parents were already on the frets. And everything came to me to try and solve and figure out. And I didn't have anybody to turn to. I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have a big brother. I didn't, so it was like, oh, I need to figure all this shit out on my own. So you figure out the shit on your own. And then the shit you don't figure out, well, guess where it goes? In there. So you keep it in here for a long time.
Interviewer: It's always easy to have these conversations in the past tense, right? Like, oh, yeah, that was my football career or whatever. That was my first marriage. Is this something that's still with you in some way?
Interviewee: Oh, man, there's a lot of stuff, I think, that still needs healing currently. And I continue to work on it.
Interviewer: I have a somewhat meta question for you. You and I have just met. We don't really know each other. But you seem like a genuinely nice guy. You definitely have already learned the name of my son. Yes. The name of my wife. Yes. You've saluted my father on his retirement. Yes. God bless him. Forgot your name already. Yeah, yeah. I'm a miserable East Coast cynic. Terrible heart. Bad human inside. How are you like this? Where does that come from?
Interviewee: My mom. She'll see this and automatically become your biggest fan. True story. Because, like, oh, you met my son. She's my biggest fan. And you're going to do a story about my son. So now she's your biggest fan. I would say my mom. Always kind. Always sweet. Tough as nails. I'm half black and half Samoan. My dad's black. My dad and my mom's Samoan. The kindest soul. Even through bad weather and damage and all the stuff that she went through, always kind.
Interviewer: If you do the deep dive on you, there's not a lot of negativity. Like in terms of? People writing negative stuff about you.
Interviewee: Not really, man. I mean, they tried. I pee in a bottle. Yeah, that happens. That does happen.
Interviewer: What about the late part of that story?
Interviewee: Yeah, that happens too. Really? Okay. But not that amount, by the way. That was a bananas amount.
Interviewer: Alleged in the story, you mean.
Interviewee: That's crazy. That's not. Yeah. Yeah. Ridiculous.
Interviewer: The reason I brought it up. Well, I guess you brought it up. But the reason that stuck out to me is I was like, this guy's 52. Is this the first negative piece of press that's been written about? But I didn't really recognize you in that story, you know?
Interviewee: You mean you didn't? Because it was bullshit. Yeah. You know what I mean? That was a whole other thing we could talk about what that was. But it's like, okay.
Interviewer: You used to tell a story about early in your movie career, you get in, mummy stuff goes great, but you kind of get into a groove that you're not thrilled with. Yes. You go to your agents and you say, I'd really like to be George Clooney or Will Smith. Yes. But maybe bigger or better even. Yes. And the agents don't really get it. Ultimately, you find new representation. Yes. You have a lovely career that follows. Yes. The question is, do you feel like that happened?
Interviewee: In terms of?
Interviewer: In terms of what you were asking for.
Interviewee: What I was asking for?
Interviewee: No, I don't feel it happened because I also feel like that was the idea back then. But if you really think about it, really the most important thing was, and I'm not dismissing my thought back then because I felt it. Because there's no blueprint, I feel like, for a guy like me who looks like me. And so, but I feel now, looking back on the career, the declaration is just different.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: What's the goal now then?
Interviewee: The goal now is to get up every day and run towards the stuff that I love doing. It could be a hundred things. It could be ten things. There's human beings. I want to run towards them. There's my children. I want to run towards them, my family, et cetera. So that's the goal.
Interviewer: Do you allow yourself to ever imagine or picture what's on the other side of all that running?
Interviewee: I haven't until right now. So give me a moment because I want to answer you because I love the question. Well, I think this will be a quote two, three years from now. You're going to say, you said this back in 2024. I think on the other side of all the running, this kind of running, I think on the other side is joy, man, and happiness. Because I could tell you ten years ago when I was running towards stuff, I don't know if I loved, but I wanted to do. You reach a point in life where on the other side of running, it's the stuff you love. Maybe a few people loved it too. Maybe they didn't. But you did. And that's all that matters.
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