Why Jennifer Lawrence Regrets Everything She’s Ever Said or Done | The Interview

Somebody was like, everybody loves you.

What does that feel like?

And I was like, it feels like precarious.

For a few years, it seemed like Jennifer Lawrence was everywhere.

I'm just the crazy slut with a dead husband.

You want to be more like Carmine?

Why don't you build something like he does?

If we burn, you burn with us.

Outside the movies, Lawrence had this vibrant public persona.

Oh my God.

This is Elizabeth Taylor.

And she was like, no, it's not.

But a lot has changed since she won an Oscar 12 years ago and tripped up the stairs on the way to get her statue.

She's gotten married, had two kids, and taken breaks from making movies.

Now she's back in Die, My Love, directed by Lynne Ramsey and co-starring Robert Pattinson.

In it, she plays a young woman who's being driven mad by motherhood.

Boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo.

It's a searing performance.

But when I sat down with her, I was struck by how scarred she seemed from her early fame and the backlash she got over her political advocacy.

Here's my conversation with Jennifer Lawrence.

Thank you so much for joining the interview.

I'm so excited to talk.

Thanks for having me.

I want to talk about your new film because I have a lot of thoughts.

So this film was adapted from a book by Ariana Harvitz.

And Martin Scorsese was the one who wanted you to play this role after he read the book in his book club.

I know.

When he reached out, what did he say?

It was very complimentary.

So I would be remiss to repeat it.

Please repeat it.

No, it was very nice.

But he was just like, I think first of all, like he said that I should read it and that, you know, I would be good in it.

And I read it.

I was actually, I had just had my first baby.

And so it was, it was a lot.

It was really overwhelming.

I like, I read it in one sitting.

But I was actually in a really good place in my kind of postpartum journey.

I didn't struggle in the kind of classic postpartum way.

I bonded right away with my son.

And so I think because of that, I was able to allow my mind to kind of go to those darker places.

I think if I was in a dark place and I read it, I would be too afraid of it.

And so it's kind of like turning all the lights on and looking at the monster under the bed or something.

Before we move on, who is in Marty Scorsese's book club?

I know.

I don't know.

I mean.

I could just ask.

I think you need to ask.

I mean, the worst he could say is I don't feel like telling you.

Yeah.

Are you in a book club?

I'm in a soft book club.

We tried.

We tried to make like an official book, but we're just too different in our tastes.

Back to the film.

As I was watching it, it seemed to me sort of like this scream against the current elevation of domestic life and perfect motherhood as sort of the pinnacle of female achievement.

What is this film about for you?

It kind of morphs for me.

I think that it's definitely about somebody losing her identity and motherhood and rage at not just her husband, but the change of the relationship, the change of the love.

But what I really like about it is it's kind of, it's poetry.

There's not kind of a single way to look at it.

There's like a statement and then breathing room for you to read into what the statement means to you.

So everybody I talk to kind of comes away with something different.

How do you view what grace your character is actually going through?

Because I've read reviews that say that she has postpartum depression.

I've read reviews that say that she, you know, is bipolar.

I've read reviews that say that she has psychosis.

I'm wondering, first of all, does it matter?

And then how you understood what she is experiencing?

That's another thing that kind of morphed for me and never really felt like one thing.

I was pregnant.

I was in my second trimester.

When you were filming this?

When I was filming this.

And I think that there were certain, I think there were like, there were certain realities that I just, I couldn't like look at.

And I spoke to, you know, a postpartum specialist who told me that the number one cause of death in mothers in the first year is suicide.

And that obviously went into our thinking about the ending, the forest.

What is the forest?

What is the fire?

Do they find their way back to each other?

What does all of it mean?

And so I think I saw the forest as more of like a cleansing.

And then after I had my- We should say at the end, she walks into this burning forest.

Are we supposed to do this?

Am I going to like ruin the movie for everybody?

I don't know.

You brought it up.

That's why I have to be clear on what it is.

I guess I have like franchise paranoia, but maybe it's fine.

Franchise paranoia.

I think there's not going to be a franchise of this film, but who am I to say?

I would agree with you.

And anyway, she is someone who is very, um, she's very-

She's really depressed.

Yeah.

She's really, she's really unhappy.

She's really angry.

And I think the love that you have for your child, I think sometimes when I think that she was so lost that she felt like she was the only thing wrong with her baby.

And that she was the only thing that could ruin her child.

And when I watched it back after having my second child and actually experiencing postpartum depression, that was a really, really weird experience.

I walked away with so many different kind of opinions about it that I don't want to share because then I'll give up the whole movie and the allegories.

Like, what am I doing?

Well, let me ask you something else then.

You just said you experienced postpartum depression after your second child.

Can you talk to me a little bit about what that looked like for you?

And I guess that must, that must have been surprising, um, perhaps because you-

Yeah, because I was ready and I knew what I was doing and I felt more confident.

I definitely didn't expect, I just expected to feel the way I did with my first, which I feel like it should just be said.

But I think postpartum is just a physical experience that happens to everybody.

I mean, your hormones are doubling every day in your first trimester.

And then those hormones plummet after you have a baby.

They plummet again when you wean.

Um, so I, my experience with my second was I just felt, I felt like a tiger was chasing me every day.

I've had so much anxiety.

I was so, I had nonstop intrusive thoughts that I was just like at the, at the whim of, they like controlled me.

Fear about your child, fear about yourself.

Yeah, it was fear about my child, just picturing every worst case scenario.

And then just doubting everything that I was doing, everything that, you know, um, and then I, I was already in therapy, but I got on a drug called Zerzovay and I took it for two weeks and it really helped me.

So if anybody is having postpartum Zerzovay, I'm not paid by them, but they could maybe throw me something.

But that helped, yeah, I went on a, on a pill that was designed for postpartum.

I took it for two weeks and it helped a lot.

I'm a parent myself and also someone who's suffered from mental illness, PTSD and other things.

And so, you know, I was watching the film and again, I think what's really powerful about the film is, um, that it can't speak to different things that people have experienced.

Because there's the universality of, of course, anyone who's been a parent and a mother, but also just anyone who's struggled with their mental health.

Um, have you, other than that time of postpartum depression, struggled with sort of mental health issues, things like that, that, that helped you sort of understand the character a little better?

Um, yeah, I've struggled with anxiety for most of my life and anxieties close friend is normally depression because like by the end of the day are so exhausted from the like adrenal burnout that you just kind of plummet and get really sad from that.

So I've, I've struggled with that before.

Or I think more of what I kind of brought into the headspace is the feeling of just never feeling like you're doing it right.

Like I, I just, I, I just kind of like live in guilt and just, you know, am I, is this the right breakfast?

Is this, is this what we should be talking about on the way home from school?

I just, I just kind of, I'm always worried that I'm failing them and I can keep myself from being like swallowed by that because I, I know I'm a good mom and I know my kids are happy and I have a great husband and I have like great support at home.

So I can like do a reality check and be like, everybody's okay.

You're just spinning, but she can't and she doesn't.

And so she really just goes there.

So that was kind of very easy for me to follow that.

That spiral.

Kind of, yeah, spin down the drain.

The other thing that she sort of deals with is a loss of her creative self that is also really hard.

I mean, one of the things that I think as, as mothers, you can feel often is just how your child seems to just leech all of the, all of the energy, all of the feeling of motivation out of you.

And you just kind of give it all to them.

And as someone who is in a creative field as an actor, I mean, was that something that you kind of were able to connect with?

Yeah.

I mean, having kids is sacrificial and it's gratifying and it's amazing and rewarding.

It's all of the things, but it's not, not sacrificial.

And yeah, I've never had to say no to something before that I really wanted to do.

You know, I could just go do it.

I do wrestle with, it feels vain and selfish that I love being a creative person as much as I do.

My kids and my family are more important, obviously, but they feel like equal parts of me, like an equal part.

Like I would not be complete if I couldn't make movies.

I just wouldn't.

And on the one hand, like when I had my son, my firstborn, I was like, being an actress is the perfect job for being a hands-on mom.

Like I can go years without working.

I can be so hands-on, you know, and then I go work a little bit.

And then they visit, yada, yada, yada.

And like, this is perfect.

And then now I'm realizing, I'm like, oh, that was COVID.

And you are quite busy.

And so I'm kind of reckoning with that and have been of just like how much is it okay to love this and not want to give it up?

So I definitely relate to that.

I found the opposite problem with creativity.

I had so much anxiety when my second was born that the only way I could escape was in stories and books and, in particular, the American Revolution.

And so I really lost myself in kind of ideas.

And that's always been how I digest feelings.

The American Revolution, do tell.

Well, I read this amazing book called The Revolutionary by Stacey Schiff.

I haven't read it.

It's about like Sam Adams and just kind of, I feel like the only, the closest thing we can get to a crystal ball is history.

And I feel like we're all kind of fighting over what it means to be an American right now.

And so I just was interested in what the original Americans' ideals were.

What did they think that they were building?

What did they think they were getting away from?

And what did they think they were creating?

I do want to talk about the American Revolution and politics, but you're like, you're like, let's go.

But I wanted to ask you one more thing about the film that struck me, which is this.

There's a lot of nudity in the film.

There's a lot of unvarnished nudity in the film.

And, you know, knowing that you were pregnant, I'm just wondering how you, we have such a complicated relationship in this country with nudity and women.

And I was wondering how you thought about that in the film and like sort of the challenges of that.

I'm definitely not bothered by people that are bothered by nudity.

You know, I, they don't have to see it.

They can fast forward it.

But I don't, I don't really care about being judged in that way.

There's this freedom of vanity in a way because I'm pregnant and it's my second.

Like I really was not adequately prepared for how, I was like, oh, I'll just be like four or five months.

Like I won't even start showing until I'm like six or seven months.

And that's not true when it's your second.

Um, I just kind of had to like let go of any kind of vanity.

I mean, I sucked in as hard as I possibly could have, but I wasn't going to diet.

I was pregnant.

I couldn't exercise.

I was working.

So there's just like this kind of like real freedom to it.

Did that feel good?

Yeah.

That release?

Yeah.

It feels nice.

I mean, I do have moments where I'm like, what technically are the differences between me and a prostitute?

But it doesn't keep me up at night.

What?

Oh, wait.

Well, I don't think that there's anything wrong with prostitution either.

I don't, I, I, I'm not saying that there is.

I just, it's, it's funny that your mind went there.

Oh, I'm very good at attacking myself.

I can find every angle.

In fact, I should do this interview.

What would you ask you?

No.

My God, it would be so sad.

Um.

Sorry, I have to pause you too because your accomplice is asking to adjust your jacket.

Oh, no.

It means she didn't like something.

What'd I say?

Actually, now that we're paused, I'm going to be.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm just going to run out of the time.

All right.

Yeah.

For what?

Is everything okay?

Yeah.

No, I didn't get yelled at.

I just peed.

I believe in freedom of the press.

I believe in freedom of the press too.

Damn it.

That reminds me of one battle after another.

Talking about freedom, baby.

Okay.

So, the other thing that you, your sort of persona in the world has been someone who is very funny and out there and has sometimes been viewed as like too loud, too much, and has sort of faced backlash and also people are charmed by it.

And I was wondering, now looking back at that era, like what do you think about how you were perceived and how you sort of interacted with the public as you were coming up when you were younger?

I mean, now that I'm in my 30s and a mom, I can see how young I was.

Like when I meet a 23-year-old now, I mean, think about a 23-year-old.

They're children.

As horrified as I am at some things, like if something comes across my phone, I just like absolutely could never watch it.

Like an old interview or something, I'm just like, oh my God, like so cringe.

But I get it.

I was young and nervous and defensive and like, you know, awkward.

I think when I remember when I was nominated for Silver Linings and somebody was like, everybody loves you.

What does that feel like?

And I was like, it feels like precarious, you know, like I'm waiting for it because like it's not, you know, it's going to come down.

That's just like the nature of things.

And then I fell getting my Oscar and then the next year, I remember the moment and I was waving to fans and I tripped on a cone and I remember being like, fuck, that's it.

Like nobody's going to believe that.

Nobody's going to believe that I fell two years in a row.

I did.

Because after you tripped on your Oscar, people said that you faked it.

Yeah, I didn't.

And so that became, I was just like, yeah, that's, I'm fucked.

And I was, everybody just kind of thought that meant everything that I did was fake and it was like all a shtick.

This is how it felt to me.

That I just kind of got like found out as this like fraud.

Yeah, I mean, you said at that moment that you felt that other people had gotten sick of you and you had gotten sick of yourself.

And I'm interested in that you had gotten sick of yourself.

What did that mean?

I just was sick of doing this and doing interviews is really scary.

Like, I'm very blessed.

I'm very lucky.

I'm very grateful.

I have a great job.

But it's terrifying.

Like you finish an interview and, or, you know, you're gearing up to release a film and it's like, you know, the circus tent, the curtains are opening.

And it's just like, you're putting yourself out there and you're putting yourself out there to be picked apart.

And it's scary.

And I was just so tired of it.

I was just so tired of being quoted and people talking about the quotes and being, you know, I just was so tired of seeing myself in that, in that way.

I needed a break from it.

People needed a break from it.

Then I took a break and enjoyed the break.

It was a mutual break.

What did you do during that period where you took a step back?

Because that was a two and a half year period where you weren't actually out in front.

You got married.

It was COVID.

So there's reasons for all of that.

But how were you recalibrating during that period?

Well, I don't really know.

I lived with my cousin for a little bit.

Hi, cuz.

Because we were like in our, I don't know, mid-20s.

She just kind of moved into my apartment in New York and we became roommates.

And it was fun.

Then we watched TV.

I took my dog to Central Park.

Then I fell in love.

Then I started learning more about contemporary post-war art.

As you do.

As you do.

Well, my husband's an art dealer.

Right.

May I ask how you met your husband?

Yeah, he showed me art.

I was considering buying something and I asked my friend Gene, who actually ended up directing me in No Hard Feelings.

But I asked him, do you know anybody in the art world?

And he sent me Cook's number.

I didn't know, you know.

And then I showed up to the gallery and was like, oh my God, what is your deal?

And then he stopped being my art advisor.

Do you find it hard to be your authentic self when you're trying to sort of interact with the public because of what you went through?

Because I saw you at this press conference that you gave in Spain and you seem a lot more reserved than you used to be, more careful, more considered.

And I'm just wondering if that is deliberate.

Yeah, I mean, I think I've also grown up and yeah, I'm a lot more nervous about whatever I say publicly.

I try not to, you know, I don't want to like give an interview that's like a bunch of like sound bites and like a word salad.

I just like, I don't think that that's like interesting and I don't feel like that's like what I'm like, it just would feel so inauthentic and not like what I'm here to do.

So I'm trying to strike that balance.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm going to break the fourth wall here, but I mean, it's always a strange thing to do, right?

I'm a journalist asking you questions.

I obviously want you to give revealing answers and you have to protect yourself as an artist and as a private person in the world.

And so I often think about how complicated that that dance is, especially for women.

I mean, do you think as a sort of female artist that you have been treated differently than perhaps other, you know, men?

Because you were young, you were, you know, kind of open to the world in a way that perhaps other people aren't.

You didn't seem so jaded, I think.

Thank you.

I don't know if it's different than if I were a man because I've just never lived that existence.

I only know this one.

That was the wrong question.

And I feel, no, no, no, it wasn't.

I'm getting around to it.

I'm just dancing around your question because we are doing the dance.

We are.

I feel it when it's time for women to be the morality police, you know, it's easy for me to see it when it's happening, you know, when somebody does a Woody Allen movie and they only ask the women, you know, well, how do you feel about working with Woody Allen?

You know, and you can just watch it.

You can just watch not one male actor get asked that question.

And I see that play out a lot of just like women being the examples, women being the morality police.

And also I think there is something, I don't know what it is, it's really easy to hate women viciously in a way that it's almost like we have this ire in us that specifically there's like an extra pocket for it.

And the ire that people are capable of, I think, is different.

I never at any point felt like this is unfair because of my gender.

I felt like this is unfair because you created this.

Like, you know, you ask and you ask and you ask and you want and you want and you want and then you don't want it anymore.

And I felt like rejected.

But that's as now that I'm older, that is a natural push-pull of the process.

And I have to be in control of how much access is given and how much isn't.

And I did want to ask you about your relationship with some of your directors because you have been with directors who are known as being very difficult, challenging directors, people who are auteurs, have really clear visions.

And, you know, for example, when you were making Mother with Darren Aronofsky, you hyperventilated, you tore your diaphragm, you got medical attention, and then he made you film the scene again when you got back.

And I'm just wondering what that kind of intensity does for you.

Like, how do you work with directors who really bring that out in you and demand that of you?

I stay loose.

I think David O. Russell really taught me how to—I think because of David, I've never really—it's never really mattered what the director's kind of methodology is.

I can kind of— I mean, Amy Adams, who was in, you know, American Hustle with you, and that was obviously David O. Russell, said of you, Jennifer doesn't take any of it on.

She's Teflon, sort of saying that you don't absorb some of that stuff.

Yeah, I didn't.

But I really felt like David, that was his way of communicating in a non-bullshit way.

I never felt like he was, like, degrading or yelling at me.

Like, if he didn't like something, he was just like, that was terrible.

It looked like shit.

Do it better.

And that was, like, a very helpful conversation.

Like, oh, okay.

I'll do it better.

How so?

I don't know.

Slower?

Not so loud?

It was just very, you know, and I'm not sensitive.

I don't know how you can be in this industry.

Like, especially, I mean, these young girls hopefully are going to grow up in a different time.

Well, I mean, Amy Adams said that she also, you know, that she cried on set when she talked about you being Teflon.

She said that for her, it was hard.

Well, maybe he was harder on her than he was on me.

And also, I don't know.

I mean, yes, of course I'm sensitive.

I'm really sensitive.

I was about to say, we've literally had this entire conversation

about how sensitive you are.

I'm so sensitive.

I can't believe I just said that.

I had a conversation with a girl the other night.

She was like, oh, I'm the middle of two, with two brothers.

And I was like, I'm the middle child with two brothers.

And we just, like, talked about it passionately for five minutes.

And then I was like, I'm the youngest.

I'm sorry.

And she gave me the weirdest look, obviously.

Because, what?

But that was that.

I'm like, I'm not sensitive.

I'm extremely sensitive.

I was going to say, I didn't want to say anything.

But I was like, we have talked now for quite a bit about this.

I'm more sensitive than Amy Adams, just flat out.

Right.

I guess I don't mean anything I say.

Do you still want to continue interviewing me?

Absolutely.

Okay.

But maybe you're less sensitive about the acting.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here.

Yeah, I'm not sensitive about acting.

I'm not competitive about acting.

My husband is always really amazed.

Because I am so competitive.

Like, when we play tennis, I throw my racket.

I scream.

I rage.

I, like, I can't do a puzzle.

Like, I'm so competitive.

Like, I make eye contact with him when we're brushing teeth sometimes.

Because I'm like, I did it a little bit longer than you.

Did you notice that?

And so he finds it fascinating that I'm not competitive with acting.

But I think it's because I feel secure.

So why would I get competitive?

I feel fine.

When it's coming to the, when it comes to getting the director, I mean, you need to have a visionary.

And so I think it's just working with a real artist that I can trust.

I mean, you're about to do a film with Martin Scorsese, which is coming up.

Yeah, I don't know if I trust him.

Yeah.

I mean, why would you?

He's such a neophyte.

He's going to have to really prove himself to me.

Tell me about, in advance of working with a director like Martin Scorsese, you haven't actually been directed by him.

I mean, how do you prepare for something like that?

I'll probably do what I always do, which is panic and then try to get in touch with, like, an acting teacher.

And then meet the acting teacher and then never see them again.

That's your process.

That is my process.

And at this point, it's almost, like, superstitious if I don't take the one meeting and then not follow up.

I'll read.

I'll be prepared.

I'll memorize.

Leo is, you know.

Leonardo DiCaprio.

Leonardo DiCaprio.

We worked together on Don't Look Up.

And, you know, he's somebody who just, like, he, like, knows the way, he knows when his character was born and what kind of cologne they wear.

And, like, Leo in One Battle After Another is so serious in his commitment and, like, is so, it's so real and that's what makes it hilarious.

You know, his sides are covered in, like, he's like Carrie Matheson, you know, in Homeland.

I don't know what sides means.

You don't know what sides mean?

No.

Oh, excuse me.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Didn't mean to get all silver screen on you.

Well, kid, sides are.

Tell me, tell me.

Sides are just, like, a few pages, like a scene.

Right, okay.

From the whole script.

So, when I was working with Leo, I was just like, I got to be doing whatever he's doing.

Like, this is incredible.

But Christian Bale changed me a lot to an American Hustle.

I was 23.

And I was always very, I remember, like, I was always very sensitive about getting embarrassed in front of the crew.

And, like, I thought acting was, like, embarrassing.

And so, I would just kind of try to make a point of, like, not acting until I just absolutely had to, like, at action.

But then I would see Christian, who didn't, like, it's not like he stayed in character, like, all day or anything.

Like, nothing.

He just, when the crew started getting ready, you know, like, and the lights started getting ready and the sound, and it became clear we were going to start rolling soon.

And he would kind of slowly start getting ready.

And then I was like, that seems like a good idea.

And I should do that when I'm more mature and can handle people looking at me and being like, psh, she's acting.

You mentioned one battle after another.

Oh, my God.

I saw it last night.

I know that it is now further in the future.

If you're hearing this.

Yes, it doesn't matter what time stamping it.

You saw it last night.

I saw it last night in 70mm IMAX, as God intended.

It's the most incredible movie I've ever seen in my entire life.

I feel so grateful to have just, for that to exist, I just, like, kissed the ground that that movie walks on.

It's also a film that, as we started discussing, it speaks to this political moment in a very interesting and important way.

Yeah.

That is funny, that is complicated.

And it's a good idea.

It's not a bad idea.

What do you mean?

A revolution.

You have been politically outspoken in the past.

In the first Trump administration, you know, you had a lot to say.

I'm curious how you feel about talking out now.

I don't really know if I should.

I think, like, the first Trump administration was so wild.

And just how can we let this stand?

Like, I felt like I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off.

But as we've learned, election after election, celebrities do not make a difference whatsoever on who people vote for.

And so then what am I doing?

I'm just sharing my opinion on something that's going to just add fuel to a fire that's ripping the country apart.

I mean, we are so divided.

I think I'm in a complicated recalibration because I'm also an artist.

And I, with this temperature and the way that things can turn out, I don't want to start turning people off to films and to art that could change consciousness or change the world because they don't like my political opinions.

I want to protect my craft so that you can still get lost in what I'm doing, what I'm showing.

And if I can't say something that's going to speak to some kind of peace or lowering the temperature or some sort of solution, I just don't want, I don't want to be a part of the problem.

I don't want to make the problem worse.

I mean, I saw you at a press conference recently when you were speaking about Gaza point to our elected officials as the people who need to be responsible for answering those questions and not putting that on actors and other celebrities to sort of take a stand.

Yeah, just like if it's like looking at a chess board, you know, you just watch these actors' faces who have had incredible careers and done amazing things and made incredible contributions that all of a sudden one half of the internet or one half of the country just can't stand anymore.

They don't want to see their face anymore because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I get so upset for those people and those actors and it just feels so wrong.

So I don't, I don't know.

I try to express myself and my politics through my work.

I made a documentary called Bread and Roses about the Taliban re-takeover in Afghanistan and Zorofsky versus Texas about the abortion ban.

Pretty much a lot of my movies coming out from my production company are expressions of the political landscape.

Um, that's how I feel like I can be helpful.

That's how I feel like I can, I don't know, bring awareness or do something.

Do you regret how you dealt with things before?

I don't know, probably.

I mean, I regret everything I've ever done or said, but, um.

Five seconds after you've done or said.

Yeah, of course, I'm going to take the zip drives out of all of these cameras when I leave.

Um, it feels, the second term feels different, you know, because it's like we all knew he said what he was going to do.

We, we knew what he did for four years.

He was very clear.

And that's what we chose.

Again.

I think there's something that just feels different about the second, the second term.

I want to thank you for, um, being so thoughtful.

Thank you.

I really do appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, thank you.

With the mask off.

I, it is often a, a thought process.

It's a dance.

And I, and thank you for dancing.

No, of course.

You were a very thoughtful person.

Thank you again.

Thank you guys.

And please don't rip off the camera.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.

And I'm David Marchese.

And we're the hosts of The Interview, an audio and video podcast from The New York Times.

Every week we interview fascinating and influential people from all walks of life.

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