Justin Bieber - Zane Lowe and Apple Music ’Changes’ Interview

I'm just fascinated by the human condition of making music and art.

You hit it on the head with the human condition in creating art.

I'm with you there, so we're...

Well, it's great to see you, man.

Congratulations on completing the music.

Thank you. Appreciate that.

It's exciting. I mean, it's such a tasteful sounding record.

Appreciate that.

Just the arrangements and, I mean, talk about giving you space to perform and just extend your vocal ability, which everyone already knows is like you're the best at what you do, but...

Thank you.

Sounds so effortless. I don't know.

It just sounds like you're in a super comfortable place vocally on this record.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, getting into, like, I was just...

I mean, we can wait.

You want to wait to get this on camera?

I just feel like...

I mean, we're recording, right?

Are we recording?

I'd rather just start.

I don't really have a big introduction.

Yeah, cool. I like that.

I like that.

Like you said, I feel like I'm in a cool vein, but I haven't really...

This album is super...

It's just not very deep, you know?

Yeah, I didn't go there like that.

You know what I mean?

I didn't go super deep with it.

Thank you.

The last two or three years which have led up to this album,

there's been some really significant change in your life, and the album being called Changes focuses on one, and we're going to get to a place of happiness, and this album is a happy album.

I mean, it's really, you know, it feels to me like a musical tribute to your relationship.

But I want to kind of kick the timeline off in 2017, and I always feel like there's a point with you, Justin, where you give so much, then you've got to a point where you've got to stop.

But it's like the train is running, you know what I mean?

So it has to stop in a dramatic fashion.

Why did you stop the tour in 2017, and what was the reason for that?

I was really tired emotionally, physically, and I was sick, and I didn't realize I was sick, so I had like Epstein-Barr, which is like, it's called Mono, and then I have Lyme disease.

So it was that, it was just, you know, the exhaustion of just being on tour, and then it was like, it was just everything compounded, I think, to be honest.

How did you feel when the tour came to an end?

I mean, it didn't really come to an end.

I was supposed to do a bunch of stadiums, but, you know, once the American leg or the European leg or wherever I came from last was done, I was like, this is it for me.

I mean, I pushed through, you know, the last month or two, and I, you know, I couldn't believe I pushed through that.

So when they were like, you know, we've got to still do stadiums, I was like, this is not going to be good.

I'm not going to be able to make it through that.

And it's just, no, it won't work.

And I'm someone who pushes, pushes, pushes until it's like, you know, until it's like the last straw.

So I just couldn't do it.

You knew instinctively that something was going on with your physical state.

Yeah, I knew there was something not right, because I was doing everything right on tour.

I mean, I wasn't, you know, I was keeping to myself, I was keeping on as much of a structured schedule as I could.

I was doing the ice bath every day.

I was eating salmon twice a day, like I was doing the right thing to try to take care of my body.

And it was just like nothing was just felt depleted and felt all the time.

So I was like, you know, and then that took an emotional toll on me.

So I was like, you know, I just didn't know what the hell was going on.

How have you adapted to that experience, knowing now that you have Lyme disease?

And how has it adjusted your lifestyle and how you move forward?

And what changes have you noticed?

I think just making sure that I am just doing the right treatments for it, doing the right IVs and all that sort of stuff, taking the necessary precautions necessary to not get any worse, I guess.

Listen to Haley when she says she feels that I'm run down and it's good to have her as, you know, checks and balances.

She can let me know when I'm like, all right, you're looking depleted right now.

It's clear to anyone who hears this album and also to anyone who takes an interest in your life as a fan, that the two of you have found, you know, a really important bond and that this marriage has been a hugely important development in your life.

It's been a big reason why I'm coming back and I'm successful at this.

I think she is definitely the reason.

There'd be no story without her.

There would be no, she just ties it all together.

I mean, she giving me substance to talk about.

She's the person that I'm learning to, you know, love unconditionally, start a family with.

So, you know, regardless if I sell another record, I mean, I have a lot of peace, just knowing that I have the rest of my life to build a relationship with a solid foundation of trust and patience and all the things that go into building a healthy relationship.

When I listen to the sort of what's been said from either of you, it's been documented in the series, but also what you've said, it sounds like both of you to some degree knew it was right, but you both had to go in your own way to confirm or qualify that that was the case.

Right.

How did you know? And there's a song on the album which really refers to that, which is that that's what real love is, you know?

How did you kind of know?

I'd let her know prior to the tour when we were hanging a lot.

I said, listen, I'm still really hurt and still trying to figure out my way.

And I'm not ready to make a commitment to you in a way that, you know, I just don't want to say something and do the opposite because I just don't.

I was at the point where I, you know, I'd done that in the past.

And I just was like honest with her.

It was like, you know, I, I'm not in a place to, you know, be faithful and all this sort of stuff that I wanted to be, you know, but I just wasn't there yet.

And what was hurting you at the time you said you were still hurt?

I think I was just hurt from my previous relationship.

I think I still was dealing with a lot of unforgiveness and all that sort of stuff.

So to be honest, I don't think I even knew what I was really struggling with at the time.

I don't think I knew I was dealing with unforgiveness.

I was just in a place where I knew I didn't want to like tell her one thing.

And like, you know, I felt like she respected me at the time and I had a lot of respect for her.

And so I just didn't want to like say something and then she'd see me off doing some other thing.

And so, but either way, she loved me and seeing me with other people hurt her.

And so with that being said, she went out and did things that hurt me.

And so it was just this hurt. I've hurt her. She hurt me.

And then before tour, we just really stopped talking. I was really upset.

And rather than, you know, before that in my previous relationship, I went off and just went crazy and went wild.

Just was, you know, being reckless.

This time I took the time to like really build myself and focus on, you know, me and try to make the right decisions and all that sort of stuff.

And yeah, I got better. And so she would reach out to people that were like, that we knew.

Check in on you.

And check in and she would get like these, you'd hear, right?

You'd hear like, oh, he's doing so well.

And she would be so pissed off because she's like, he's not doing well without me.

Like, just, you know, normal, like, right? Like normal.

Facts?

Yeah.

Right?

If you want to think you're happy for someone, it sucks to hear that they're happy.

Yeah.

And so she would hear this, right?

And you'd hear this and it would just be, you'd just be like, what?

He's doing well, like.

But in a way, you're kind of trying to get better because you recognize there's something that is unresolved here in a weird way.

Right, right, right.

I just didn't know what the heck was going on.

And so I really took a deep dive in my faith, to be honest.

I just went deep into like, I believed in Jesus, but I never really like, you know, when it says following Jesus is actually turning away from sin.

And so there's no, what it talks about in the Bible, it's like, there's no obedience.

There's no faith without obedience.

So it's like, I had faith about like, oh, I believe Jesus died on the cross for me, but I never really implemented it into my life.

I never like, was like, I'm going to be obedient.

So I was like, I wasn't sleeping around.

I wasn't doing a lot of stuff.

I just was kind of by myself.

How did you, how did you make, who helped you come to that?

Because I'm sure there were a lot of, and I don't mean this in a judgmental way.

It's just humanity and everyone's on their own journey.

There are a lot of people who are practicing one belief for another.

But as you say, it's different when you, when you say it, as opposed to actually acting within it.

It's, it's, it's guidelines, which are there to give you ultimate focus, right?

On what's important.

So when did you decide to actually move within the guidelines and how did you find yourself away from, yeah, I believe in Jesus, but I'm going to drink or do drugs or sleep around or what all these other distractions.

How did you get out of that world?

What was the turning point for you?

I think it was my perception of who Jesus really was.

You know, I had really bad examples of Christians in my life who would say one thing and do another.

So they were my direct example of who Jesus was.

That's why you didn't take it seriously.

I didn't take it as seriously because I didn't have good examples.

Good role models.

Yeah. And so I think the more I, I really just really looked at the character of who Jesus really was.

Did you go up in a, in a, in a, in a Christian household?

I grew up, um, in a, in a Christian household. Yeah.

But my mom was, um, I mean, she was really hurt growing up.

I mean, she had so many things going on in her life.

So she was navigating her faith journey.

For me, it was just confusing because she'd say one thing and then like, she would say, well, you're forgiven.

But then I do something bad or whatever was supposedly bad.

But then I, she'd make me feel ashamed for it.

So it's like, well, if Jesus forgives me, then why am I feeling, why are you making me feel bad for doing something?

Like, obviously there's like a form of like, we should, we got to make sure we keep our kids accountable and punish our kids so that they learn from their mistakes.

But like, if there's this God named Jesus who died for our sins so that we don't have to live in shame, then why?

It was just things like that, that would make me really question like, who is this Jesus guy?

And I didn't really take a deep look into who he was.

It's tough. I mean, I get it like this.

Hey man, our parents do the best they can.

And I've been through my own, you know, situations where I've confronted the things that have affected my life's choices.

Exactly.

But at some point you've got to come to a decision.

You've got to take responsibility for your own perception of those situations, right?

Yeah.

Otherwise you run around just blaming everybody and that's an entitled situation, right?

Yeah, it's so good.

It entitles you to behave however you want. You know what I mean?

I never say it.

You know, I guess that's what I was getting at when I was talking about those, those tough years is in a way you were punishing yourself because you didn't have the answers, right?

I think so. That's a good way to put it. Yeah.

I think that I was just, yeah, living in this shame, living in all this sort of stuff of my past and I wasn't able to move on.

But the more I looked at, so now I'm not doing, the way I look at my relationship with God and with Jesus is I'm not trying to earn God's love by doing good things.

God has already loved me for who I am before I did anything to earn and deserve it.

It's a free gift by accepting Jesus and just giving your life to Him and what He did is the gift.

The forgiveness is the thing that we look at and, you know, I'm going to worship you, God, because you gave me something so good.

And so you live that life of like, I don't want to cheat on my wife, not because it's the right thing to do, but because I don't want to hurt her.

See the difference there?

That is love.

Yeah.

You're putting the well-being of someone that you care about ahead of your own fallibilities and your own previous behavior.

Exactly.

And what's, you know, what's out there.

Exactly.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, I love that.

Can I ask you a tough question before we focus on the future and how bright things look?

Do you think that if you hadn't redefined what Jesus was and reclaimed it into something that was worthy of practice for you, which then led you on a path of reconciliation with your wife, do you think the person that, the you of then, was on a path of self-destruction?

Do you feel that you were self-destructing?

Oh, for sure.

Yeah.

I would have, for sure.

100%.

Yeah.

100%.

It would have been, it would have been no bono.

It was bad.

It would have been, yeah.

I don't know if I'd be alive for sure.

It was dark, really dark.

So I'm very, very grateful to have influences in my life that have played a huge part in me, seeing their relationship with Jesus and their relationship with their wives.

And their relationship with their kids and saying, that's what I want and striving after that.

So that's, I was thinking too, it's not obviously, you know, when we want to be successful in certain things, there's things we have to work hard at.

But like, striving for God's love or God's approval or people's approval, it's like, God's told me, he said, I mean, I don't hear from God audibly.

But, um, I feel like God's, you know, when he sees us, he, he's not this God that people, a lot of people think that's like judgmental.

And he's a God that, uh, that accepts us for who we are and loves us through our, our pain and through our, our dirt.

Jesus wasn't this religious elite guy that, you know, came to, um, but he was, he was in the dirt and, uh, he found me in my dirt and pulled me out.

And that's why my story, that's why I'm not afraid.

I don't want to, I want to talk about without forcing that into people's, I never want to be someone that's trying to persuade anyone to believe in what I believe.

I think God persuades people, but I want to definitely tell my story so that if, if that resonates to anybody that they can, uh, hopefully learn from it.

It's 2020 going forward into a new decade.

And I think about from 2008, nine, when it first started for you right through, I mean, you work nonstop and that was a decade in full visibility of the world.

Yeah. Yeah.

I definitely have grown up in front of the, the world for sure.

But, uh, there's nothing, I mean, just even thinking now, I mean, what we're doing right now is we are building, we're building relationship.

What you and I are doing right now, we're building trust, we're building, you know, this isn't just, I mean, people will see this and look at it as an interview.

But what we're doing is we're just two men sitting down talking about life and the human condition.

So when you first started and you said that, I was like, okay, this is going to be, this is going to be good.

Well, for me, you know, music comes from somewhere, right?

And we always have to remember that maybe it comes from this youthful naivety and this desire to escape something.

And then you get out there in front of the world and then it comes from a place of wanting more of it.

Yeah.

And a desire to continue to fill this kind of bucket.

Right.

Because it tastes good, all this stuff in there.

It's this energy, it's attention, it's fame, right?

Yeah.

It validates you.

Exactly.

I mean, just think about how young I was and so impressionable.

And you have everybody telling me how good, how awesome I am at all times, you know?

And like, it was, it was just insane.

And so it's like, how do you?

It's like taking a kid and putting a kid in a room with a, with a picnic table full of nothing but sweets.

Right.

And just saying, I'll be back in two days.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And I'm glad you said that because it's like, I just want people to understand like, and get that perspective of like my, of my life.

Because I think there's a lot of people, you know, that just have this, you know, I'll see comments and stuff.

And I, I, I really try not to read them, but I find myself in a wormhole sometimes.

Sure, it's human nature.

But, but just seeing like, you know, me talking about my issues or my problems and stuff.

And they're like, oh man, cry me a river in your Rolls Royce.

You know what I mean?

It's like, I want people to kind of understand the, you know, the psychology behind why I could have, I potentially could have, you know, problems in my life.

So yeah.

Thank you for being here and helping me tell that story.

I mean, I like to go there.

It's my thing.

Yeah. Me too.

Yeah. I appreciate that.

I think it's important, not just for, I mean, for me, it's about trying to get information that helps break down the stigma that artists should be grateful for everything that they have.

We should be grateful for everything we have just when you wake up every morning with our eyes open for obvious reasons.

Exactly.

But artists go through their own struggles.

And, and I think that we need to acknowledge and accept that.

Thank you for saying that.

Thank you.

When did the fire to make music come back?

Because to pick the timeline up again, it's sort of you're off tour and you realize that you still haven't dealt with certain things, right?

Yeah.

It's 2017. And did you get hit again? Were you slammed again by these kind of unresolved emotions and feelings?

And did you have questions when you came off tour that you still didn't have answers for?

I got off tour and yeah, there was still, there was this, there was this feeling of unresolved things in my life.

I took the time to resolve some things in my life.

Uh, some, some relationships, get some healing.

Did you go to therapy?

Work through some healing. Yeah, I did.

I think it's important that we express our feelings and, uh, find that place.

I think a lot of people, I think at one time I felt like, ah, who is this person to give me advice?

You know, like, what does he know about? And I just, I've moved, I've just grown to mature past that and just know that like, it's just, it's helpful.

When did you realize that it was time for you to reconnect with Haley and that you had gotten to a place when you knew that you could potentially actually pursue something substantial?

I just felt there was a lot of resolution, um, in my life.

I'd seen her at an event and I'd, uh, I'd seen her with a baby and, uh, something just clicked and it was like, wow, she's the one.

I'd, I'd kind of decluttered some of my past and I was able to see really clearly and I just seen her across the room.

She was holding a baby and, uh, I just seen the nurturing look in her eyes toward this baby.

Um, and I was like, I want the mother of my children to look at a baby the way that she was and, um, she just, the way she was carrying it.

And I just seen something so special and I just was like, I want that.

And I knew that she could offer that to me.

Yeah.

That was a great story.

Thank you.

How quick was it after that?

It seemed pretty quick.

It was very quick.

It was a couple months later, I popped the question.

And then it was a couple months later, we got married.

Were you nervous before you popped the question?

I was, I mean, that's a big commitment.

And, uh, my parents were never married.

So I never had that, uh, I never got to see what that really looked like.

So I'm like, can I even do this?

Do I even know what it looks like to do this?

But I just felt like God was saying, I'll show you, you know, I'll show you how to do it.

Just, you know, just trust.

So I just trusted him and just let him, you know, lead the way and, uh, committed to her.

And I didn't realize your parents weren't married.

Yeah.

My parents weren't married.

No.

So that's a huge step to take given that the situation from which you came, there's no kind of trial.

I had no guidelines.

Yeah, there's no guidelines.

No, no nothing.

Um, my dad is now married and he's doing an awesome job and I'm really proud of him.

Are you at a place of honesty now with your parents?

Can you sit down with your dad when the time, when you need to, when you need answers, perhaps you're not sure why you're thinking certain things or your behavior isn't in line with your actual desires, what you want to be.

Can you talk to your parents?

Can you try to untangle that?

To be honest, uh, I think there's levels of, you know, what I think, uh, our relationship is ready to handle at this moment, where they're at in their journey with, you know, their faith and where they're at with, in their life and where I'm at.

I just think, you know, just, I want them to play a role in my life and that's pretty simple.

Just be my mom and dad.

And I think it's just taken me a minute.

I'm really in the process of doing that right now.

So it's really kind of still, you know, I'm still learning that, how to do all that.

And still learning how to trust people?

Oh yeah, for sure.

I mean, um, I think boundaries, to be honest, is like key, you know, understanding like there's people that play certain roles in my life and kind of just, uh, let them play that role and not give them access to certain parts of my life.

And, uh, that's something you have to do not only as, uh, for your own emotional wellbeing, but I think as a, as a business leader as well, you know, and something I'm learning, I've made some mistakes over the past year or two, just scooters over there, probably laughing.

Just, um, I do try, I have a problem with trust, but then there's areas of like, I, I do trust people a little too much sometimes.

And judgements?

Sometimes.

I'm just working through just kind of trying to figure out all that sort of stuff.

People who take advantage?

Do you feel like people have taken advantage of you in the past?

Oh yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

People take advantage of course, but, uh, just kind of trying to figure out how to, just how to navigate being married.

I'm frigging married now and I got the best wife in the world.

She supports me through so much.

I'm really honored to be her husband.

And I just.

Really?

You've made a whole album about it.

Yeah.

And, uh, there's more to come.

I mean, I want to continue to write about what it looks like to be.

It's so, you know, this is an album I wrote in the first year of our marriage, you know?

So it's like, it's so fresh and there's, you know, there's no, there's so much more to learn about commitment and, you know, building trust and foundation.

I'm just, I'm looking forward to continuing to build and make music that's going to reflect that.

That's what's great about changes.

It's a honeymoon record.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a honeymoon record.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, it would be sort of disingenuine to start diving deeper into that situation when you're just learning about it in the beginning stages.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So I think, I think I'm like, I'm excited about this, but I'm just like, there's so much more, there's so much deeper levels I'm excited to go to, um, which is fun.

You know, it gives me something to look forward to.

Uh, I think in the past I was so caught up in all of like the bad things in my life that I, I just, I wasn't able to really take, take a second and, and really appreciate all the, all the little things.

But yeah, I'm excited.

It's going to be, it's going to be good.

I asked a question about when you sort of felt the fire to want to make music again, because it's something that I know you're a hundred percent committed to.

So when did you know you wanted to get in the studio and feel inspired?

I think again, I was like dealing with a lot of fear.

Uh, a lot of like, um, just was afraid of like, at that point, just even the process, what am I going to talk about again?

And, you know, is it going to be received?

You know, I'm starting to compare with other artists.

And, uh, I think when I went on stage with Ariana Grande, you know, I, I seen the reaction of how people reacted when I went on the stage, it was like, okay.

Um, it gave me kind of like a, a boost of confidence.

It reminded me, cause it'd been so long since I'd been on stage, just kind of reminded me what, oh, this is what I, this is what I do.

This is what I'm good at.

And I don't need to run away from it.

I was like, uh, yeah, I was running away.

You know, I think a lot of us need to take that.

Um, you know, when something's hard, it's almost like we need to run towards the pain and run towards the, the hurt rather than run away from it.

And I think you get kind of healing when it comes to that.

There was a great moment when you came face to face or not really cause you were wearing a mask and.

Right.

But you came face to face with Billie Eilish.

Who in her own way, albeit in a different era.

Uh huh.

Dealing with this very, very public explosion of success and of attention.

That too.

And like, by the way, like even more now, like.

It was so quick.

Quick.

Yeah.

She's, she's crazy.

She's a superstar.

Superstar, right?

So, so you're there and you see her and you see the way she's reacting to you.

And I wonder what was going through your mind.

Cause I've never had a chance to ask you that.

Cause I know it was going through her mind.

Cause I've had a chance to ask her that.

And it's pretty clear in the video.

It's going through her mind.

She can't even.

What was going through your mind when you, when you, when you saw that kind of reaction.

And also now in the knowledge that you were just coming out of that space yourself.

I wanted to protect the moment.

You know, I don't know how many opportunities I'm going to get, you know, we never know how many opportunities we're going to get with anybody.

I mean, it just, I'm tearing up thinking about it just with the Kobe situation, you know, um, just never know.

Um, and so I just wanted to be a good example.

Um, you know, and, uh, yeah.

Um, did you feel protective of her?

Yeah.

I definitely feel protective of her.

Um, it was hard for me being that young and being in the industry and not knowing where to turn and everyone, you know, telling me they love me and, you know, just turn their back on you in a second.

Um, so yeah, it's, it's hard because I want her to know that, you know, she can count on me, but at the end of the day, I don't want to never going to force myself to be in relationship with her.

It has to be natural.

Right.

So I just kind of, you know, let her do her thing.

And if she ever needs me, I'm going to be here for her.

But, um, but yeah, just protecting those moments because people take for granted, uh, encounters and, um, yeah, so, um, yeah, I just, um, I just want to protect her, you know?

I don't want her to, to, to lose it.

I don't want her to, you know, go through anything I went through.

I don't wish that upon anybody.

So, um, yeah, if she ever needs me, I'm, I'm just a call away.

Do you realize how important your story is?

And the fact that you're sitting here today telling it, man, I mean, I, I have to say thank you because someone who's really, every time I have a conversation with someone who's been through this unique type of experience, I'm just, I'm searching for some kind of, um, truth that can help.

Right.

And the fact you're sitting here today and being so honest and open is really important.

And I just want to share that with you, man.

It's like, this is, you're right.

This is an interview.

This is an opportunity for you to help others.

Yeah.

And that's got to give you purpose even beyond the making of music or to know.

Yeah.

I'm not thinking about anything but being present in this interview with you.

You know, that's it.

That's what we got right now.

That's what we got.

And we got a story to tell.

And we got, either we're going to be here and we're going to be authentic and honest and real, or we're going to bullshit.

And I just, I've done that for years and I'm just, I'm over it.

It must have been exhausting.

It's exhausting.

I mean, it really is.

And, uh, so I, I, I just come, I just, I commend you for going there and, uh, asking the tough questions and the things that people don't want to talk about and they don't want to go there because it's just, it's revealing and it's, it's hard.

But, uh, you know, this is, these are the conversations that are going to bring change and bring, you know, a level of consciousness to people that can say, I need to really take a look at myself.

Where am I at?

And, uh, you know, if Justin's able to be vulnerable where, where, where he's at, then, you know, I can do the same thing.

You know, people have putting me on a pedestal.

Um, I didn't ask for that.

You know, I, obviously I love making music, but, uh, you know, there's a lot of people that love making music and they're not, you know, they're not in the position that I am.

So, you know, a lot of that is not, you know, I can't say that I put myself in this position.

I'm just trying to steward that wisely, steward my relationships wisely.

I want people to take a look at my story and, and, and just hopefully, you know, my, the, my words can, can make a difference.

You chose to make an album that is flows in a really fluid, tasteful way and gives you space to really sing and really hyper-focus as we said before on the honeymoon phase of your marriage.

Yeah.

And you're working with Pooh Bear again.

Yeah.

Which is great because you trust him.

Yeah.

And you got great chemistry.

Mm-hmm.

And you opened the door to some really keen collaborators as well.

Mm-hmm.

How did you pick them?

How did you decide who was going to be on and be off?

We're talking, we're talking Quavo, Travis, Kehlani.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

I mean, it's like.

I look at people who I, you know, I admire and I, I'd love to hear more of their stories and get to know them a little bit more.

But, uh, I think they're authentic where they're at in their careers and in their, their life.

And you've got to be a fan.

Yeah.

I love them.

I love their music.

You and Kehlani really jumped out at me because I was talking about her tone.

It's so good.

And I love your vocal tone.

It's so good.

When you sing and you're in this sweet spot with Pooh Bear, I think there's very few, if anyone, who can get to that place.

Appreciate that.

And, and just talk about that experience of working with Kehlani on that track and why you chose her.

I just, like you said, I think it's a major, the major thing is tone.

I just, I love her tone.

Um, and I just think she's honest.

And, uh, and I think that's just goes such a long way being authentic.

She's a straight talker.

From where I, I haven't spent much time with her, but I was out to dinner with her the other night and I just felt like, yeah, she seemed like she was pretty authentic.

She talked to me about like, wow, that what you talked about in the documentary was like inspiring because you know, it's, it's, it's scary to kind of show that stuff, you know, show the hard stuff.

Who in heaven's name is clever.

And how come for a second me and our son thought it was post.

So, um, it's actually, I think he signed a post, but, uh, it's this guy who I found on the internet, just seeing him on Instagram.

And I was like, this guy's tone is crazy.

Yeah.

And he just has this vibe.

That's just insane.

And I just love it.

Sort of unchecked and a little rugged and unruly.

It's raw.

And it's freaking just like, you can just feel the pain through the music.

You can feel just emotion, raw emotion.

I just think it's, it's powerful.

Have you got that project in you at some point in the future?

We're dialing into some really interesting and really powerful human stuff here.

Yeah.

And this album is a great document to the beginning of a new era for you.

But do you feel like every day you get closer to making that album that picks up where purpose left off, but goes even further?

Uh, yeah.

I mean, I was just in the back there and I literally just came up with the title to my album, but I don't know if I'm going to share it right now.

That's okay.

It just felt like, yeah, there's, there's so many deeper levels of, you know, I don't just want to, I wouldn't, I want to talk about, you know, I think love is, you know, the foundation of what humanity is built off of.

But, but, and with that being said, I just think there's so many, you know, issues in society and things that I'm eventually going to want to just speak about and write about and injustices and people being marginalized and overlooked and things of that nature.

I think that's definitely something I'm going to definitely be going into.

But I think just, it's all timing.

And I think what comes priority first is that lady over there and building my relationship with her.

Cause I think she teaches me about all that sort of stuff.

Like what, what do you, what does she really talk?

What are some of the key kind of growths that you've experienced by being in a relationship?

Like, I think she just teaches me, um, she just, I mean, there's so much, I mean, patience is a big thing at the end of the day.

It's like I chose to be with her forever.

So understanding that.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Just patience is a big, big thing.

Is he impatient?

Is he impatient?

Yeah.

Not necessarily.

I think I've been quite impatient with him.

I think we both have a, I think everybody has a tendency, like you said, a human condition.

Everybody's can be impatient.

And the big step, and I got to ask it because there's, you know, there's, there's baby sounds on the record and there it's like really, it's, it's cool hearing those.

And I wonder kind of where you, you stand or where, how you feel about starting a family and in particular coming from a family that was unorthodox in an environment that wasn't normal, um, or whatever normal family is, how you feel about starting your own?

I want to start my own family, uh, in due time.

I just, uh, I want to enjoy being married for a little bit, go on tour.

Be married, enjoy traveling with just us, build more of our relationship.

And I think, uh, yeah, that is definitely the next step for sure.

What kind of father do you sort of want to be?

Do you think like what's important to you?

And you know what I mean?

Like, Oh, wow.

Great question.

Um, well, what do you not want to be?

That's a good question too.

Uh, I, you know, I just want to be led by, like I said before, I'm, I'm a Jesus follower.

And, uh, I just want to be led by when you accept Jesus, he says that now you walk with the Holy Spirit.

So I think I just want to be led by, by the Holy Spirit.

So you're going to tour?

Uh, I'm going to tour.

Yeah.

How do you feel about that after the, the way you felt at the end of the last tour?

And are you excited?

I guess you wouldn't be going on tour if you weren't.

Yeah.

I'm definitely excited.

I'm excited to, uh, to travel again.

We've established so much and figured out what's not important and what is important.

So it's like money's going to come and it's great.

And I'm going to be able to provide a really amazing life for my family, which is incredible.

Um, but just understanding the priorities.

I mean, like here we are, you know, we got a lot of people who aren't making as much money as I am on tour.

You know, dancers, band, all these sorts of things.

I think creating an atmosphere where everybody feels, I was telling Scooter this the other day, where everybody feels heard, valued, respected, and that their goals are, you know, obviously is matching with my goals, you know, and, and so that we can work on creating an atmosphere that's going to be conducive for them, you know, building their families and building their life.

And, you know, for so long, it's like there, when, when you have these other things that you feel are going to fulfill you, whether it's money or success, you, you're so focused on the outcome that you're, you're just not working on how do we get there?

Is this going to be sustainable?

You know, the tour became so dysfunctional because you got, I mean, I was talking about this with Nick the other day.

You got all these people that everyone starts off good on tour.

Everyone starts off a family, but then by the end of the tour, everybody's got their clicks.

Everybody's, because we're not creating, you know, we're not reminding everybody the focus and the mission and the goal.

So I think taking that time that I was, you know, immature in the past and not ready to do that because I was just, things were more important.

Taking that time to, you know, have those weekly meetings.

To be a leader.

To be a leader.

Exactly.

To be a leader.

That's it.

You nailed it on the head there.

Just lead.

Which I, you know, I never, like you said before, like I said before, it's like, my family life was dysfunctional when I was younger.

So like, it's just been hard to understand what that really looks like.

But you, you hit it on the head, being a leader.

You and your fans have had the most incredible journey and ride and, and the level of passion and the level of loyalty that they show you over the years has been incredible to witness from the outside.

Now that you have a chance to be a leader, not just to your band, but also to your fans in a weird way, right?

Because I know that there have been times when that's probably scared you even, or it's caught you off guard, that level of attention, right?

It's hard to process.

Mm-hmm.

And I wonder sort of how you feel as you're growing and maturing about having fans and what that concept feels like.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, the concept, um, it's just so different than, you know, when I was younger.

I mean, I just, it's confusing when you're young because that person loves me.

Well, also you come, you're coming from a place where you're, again, getting back to your family, which is where it all begins.

Mm-hmm.

We start our journey somewhere with some people, right?

And we don't ask for that.

They're doing the best they can.

Mm-hmm.

And you have to process that information and move forward.

And when you're faced with this adoration and this love, but you're not quite sure what love is.

Mm-hmm.

There you go.

It's big.

What we're touching on is big right now.

This is big.

This is big.

This is big.

This is big.

This is big.

I don't even think people know how big this is.

Yeah.

What is love?

I mean, love is patient.

Love is kind.

Love doesn't envy.

Love doesn't boast.

Love isn't self-seeking.

Love isn't arrogant.

Love is, you know, what Haley and I are doing every day, is waking up in the morning and making the decision to, you know, we have all these.

Everyone has selfish desires, you know.

Everybody has bad thoughts, but just pushing those aside and saying, I'm not going to indulge in that because I have something, you know, you give me something that I want more than those things.

But like you say, acknowledging that they exist.

But acknowledging them.

I think that's something that I wasn't.

Is a huge part of the sign.

Yeah.

I wasn't doing that before.

I don't think.

I wasn't acknowledging them.

I just was like pretending that they weren't there.

Burying them.

And then, you know, what comes with that?

Self-righteousness.

I'm doing, look at me, how good I'm doing because I'm not doing those things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Self-righteousness.

And that's the epitome of what I hate.

But it's something that I started doing because I'm like, well, I'm saying no to all this other garbage and I'm doing the right thing.

So look, I'm a good guy.

Yeah.

And then people are like, what?

You know, like, who are you to say?

You know what I mean?

It's like, we're not really good at the end of the day.

At the core, I don't believe.

I don't believe that humans are good.

And people might, you know, twist this and make me seem like I'm saying humanity is not good.

I don't know.

Tell you the truth.

I just feel like at the core, I fight every day temptation and things that, you know, are instinctive to do.

Whether it's, you know, whatever it is, lie, be greedy, all these things that just naturally come.

Those naturally come.

I got to fight to not be that.

Maybe that's my unique thing.

Maybe that's me personally being that way.

And I just accept that.

And I just know that that's not who I am.

Mm-mm.

Because humanity is, you know, it's come to a place of being really, you know, it's broken.

I mean, just look around.

I mean, the pain that's, um, so much pain.

And, uh, yeah.

I don't know where I was going with that.

But, um, you know, I, um, hey baby.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate you.

Oh, look at that.

Um, so, I mean the pain in this world, it's just so, it's like, it's obvious.

And, uh, people are looking for hope.

And they're looking for a way out.

And they're looking for an escape.

And they're looking for, um, they're looking for truth.

And they're looking for, um, yeah.

And I'm just, uh, I've gotten the opportunity, um, with my journey to just see a God who's accepts me, loves me.

Um, they call him the savior, um, and I believe that to be true, that Jesus saved me.

Justin, at the start of this new decade, and this might be a little hard to kind of put into context, but on broadly speaking, in terms of just core values and core goals, where would you ideally like to be at the end of this decade?

What would you like to, what path would you like to put your life on?

Mm-hmm.

I feel like the last decade, so much of it felt out of control.

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like you've worked hard to get some of that control back.

Control back, yeah.

Um, I just feel like there's so much to look forward to.

I'm really excited.

Excited to get, I'm like, emotional thinking about it.

I'm just excited to get, uh, to have babies with you.

Um, I'm excited to, uh, just enjoy, just celebrate, you know, all the amazing things that we've been doing.

And given, because we are blessed, babe.

You know, we talk about it all the time.

We just have a thing where we just say, we're, we're so blessed.

We are, man.

There's so much pain in the world, and you don't understand, we don't understand why.

And there's so much things that are so unexplainable.

But what is the reality?

We are blessed, you know?

Um, and it's hard, that dichotomy of like, how can we mourn the loss of someone, you know?

And accept that we are still blessed.

I think, um, that's, it's a really hard thing to discover.

But, uh, I think when you get there, it's a beautiful place to be.

Beautiful place to be.

Thank you.

It's really hard to hear, but if you're considered vậy, you're literally a bit a bit about it.

Thank you.