Katy Perry: New Album 143, Motherhood, & Tour | Apple Music

I'm really impressed with you guys.

Thank you so much.

Did you see what we stenciled out on the parking lot?

You guys went to great lengths.

Oh, that's, mate, your best mate.

I know.

It helps having a best mate.

I know.

There was talk of Taco Bell at one point, and I said, I don't think she's in Taco Bell mode.

She looks like she's in Popstar mode.

I'm in Popstar mode.

It's been like six years since you were really, truly in Popstar mode, because when we spoke around Smile, that was not really Popstar mode.

That was like a deeper journey, and it was also quarantine, so hard for you to experience all of this.

It's always a deeper journey.

It still is a deeper journey.

It still is a deeper journey, but this feels like the Katy Perry that everybody loves, which is like, I mean, for people who don't know, out there is like a hundred people out there.

Like, there's a sold-out event out there.

At Apple Music.

At Apple Music.

We sold all tickets.

I was like, oh, that's nice.

I was like, people like me.

They do.

I love them too.

Well, it's a good place to start, actually, which is, you know, you come from such a, God, the word humble gets thrown around too much, but it really applies here.

Like, you started humble.

You had to really work for this, and you had to really find your place and kick the door down yourself.

And so, and yet the success is overwhelming and undeniable.

I mean, the stats speak for themselves.

So, we'll cover some of that journey while we talk about this new album, but the simple question, Katie, is, is there a part of you that's always still surprised when people show up?

I am overwhelmed with love and admiration for my fans, especially during the 143 era.

They have come to the table and shared with me their support, their love, the process of loving me for 15 years.

You know, they've shared, even with Lifetimes, which is out, is they've kind of done, like, here I am at 12 and here I am at 28, and I still love you.

I loved you when I was this person.

Maybe I wasn't even out of the closet.

Now I love you as, like, my full authentic self.

And so, it's been amazing to be on that ride and have fans for that long.

And, I mean, you know, I love being a pop star.

It's definitely a shade of who I am now.

Like, I think in the past it was more separate.

It was like pop star and personal life, and now there's a little bit more, it's kind of like mixed and more balanced.

Well, it's hard when you're trying to sort of figure out both identities, especially when, you know, the whole world loves you as one and doesn't really know you as the other.

Yeah.

Like, you know, back in pop star 1.0, you know, sort of like 08 to 12, when you were just achieving that success for the first time.

It must have been kind of crazy if you look back on it now with the perspective of wisdom and experience and how you even got through that four years.

I mean, that's why I kind of reach out to all the girlies that are coming up now and, like, hey, there's only – You cool?

Well, I'm here if you need, you know, to talk to anyone that's been through what you've been through because it's, you know, there's not – it's kind of like there's only a few astronauts out there and you kind of want to, like, talk about what you've been through and tell them that, like, look, you know, you're riding this rocket now and it's going to go up, it's going to go down, you're holding on for dear life, and, you know, if you ever need anything, I'm here because I have ridden it hard and for a long time and it's been a wild ride.

It's been really fun.

I've learned so much and I'm just so grateful that I'm still here standing today.

And this is my job and I'm still celebrating and still bringing life and light and joy and BPM especially on this record.

Yeah, exactly, tempo, which we love and we do and we love it when you find tempo and we love it when you do your job, you know.

This is my job.

This is my purpose.

Like, I feel like I was born to be an ambassador of love and joy and light and to give all that and to evolve and maybe evolve in the spotlight so I can be an example of that.

And I really talk about my tools and try and put them out there for people to hear about and to investigate themselves.

And I think that I was born to hopefully get people back out of their head and into their heart to be more heart-centered.

That's beautifully said.

That's beautifully said.

And I think this album is so outward and such a gift.

It's like, you know, you're putting a lot of positive energy that way toward us.

And I think to your point, you know, it's most authentic when you're speaking to yourself in here, when you're most centered in here.

So with that being said, do you feel like 143 is your most complete body of work as a human?

143 is a chapter in this book, you know.

I have a lot of different chapters still within me and I'm excited to explore all of them.

You know, I don't think I ever stick to one genre either.

I like to, like, you know, just try on what, not try on, but just, like, work with, like, one for three.

It's kind of three different things.

It's the quintessential me with empowerment messages and uplifting messages.

And then it's real dance and then it's real rhythmic.

And that's kind of the body of it.

But it's definitely just still a chapter.

And I think time tells your story, you know.

Can I add a fourth in there just from a fan's point of view?

I think it's also this new found love and joy and discovery and experience of loving something more than yourself.

Oh, yes.

You know, having a family and realizing, like, that there's something more.

Having a whole life outside of it.

Yeah, that there's more than just, like, the goals and the ambition and the big songs and the success and all the things that youth kind of affords you the opportunity to go and get.

But then you get to a point where it's like, oh, there's got to be something else.

And you found it, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'm so grateful for making this record.

And, like, you know, I always wanted to make a dance record, a dance pop record.

What are you talking about?

I feel like you've been making dance records your whole career.

But, like, more dance.

Like a wheel four on the floor thing.

Yeah, kind of like Nirvana, Lifetimes, just a little bit more in that vein.

But before, you know, 143, I didn't have that whole home life as much.

Now I have a whole life outside of this that brings me safety and security and love.

And so it's interesting.

It's like my joy can never be taken away because my joy is no longer outside of myself.

We don't own that.

No one owns it anymore.

No one else owns that.

It's not outside of myself.

And that really switched around witness time.

And it seemed like a little bit like it was really jolting because I was really trying to clean the palette and do something different than I was doing.

That's why I dramatically shifted everything.

Because I just wanted to explore other territories.

I didn't want to keep repeating myself.

And I think that, you know, it was a necessary shift.

Sometimes they say, like, when you're on a ship, if it shifts one degree, you can land on a different continent.

That's what it can feel like, even if it's by one degree.

But I'm just so grateful because it got me out of this loop.

Every great artist has a witness.

Every great artist has an album in their catalog, at least one, which at the time to some fans requires some readjustment.

Where we go, okay, but we were in a rhythm with you.

We were there.

We were right there.

What we didn't realize at the time was we were already ready to move on as well.

It's just we needed you to show us how to do that.

Oh, thanks.

Those albums, like Witness, are really important because they establish an entire, like you say, it's a degree off course.

And you don't realize it as fans until you're two or three albums down the road.

Like, oh, it makes sense.

There's a lot of love, actually, looking back from fans and non-fans and just people that are observing the whole process.

They're like, wait, hold on.

This is something.

Yeah, I'm not surprised.

Those albums age way better in the time than we're able to actually acknowledge, I think.

It's great.

The expectation that we have is that you're not going to break this formula, man.

It's work in prison.

Like, working.

Working?

How?

I mean, yes, it's working in a way, but you've got to remember that things can be so out of balance when they're working, per se.

That's interesting.

Let's talk about that.

The kill him with kindness thing, as Bob Dylan said, which I love that quote where he was like, I never minded about the booing.

I never really understood it, but it didn't bother me.

Well, that's a good impression.

No, I can do a much better impression than that.

In fact, I think I'm safe to do one now.

You know, the booing never really bothered me.

I never really understood why, but it didn't bother me because they can kill you with kindness, too.

And I fucking love that quote, right?

And in a way, that's kind of, I think, sort of a good time to observe that because after a while, even love can become a little bit suffocating, you know, if it's only coming through one lens.

It's different.

I mean, when I was going through one of the boys, which was, whoa, it was like, oh, my God, hold on to this ride.

And then Teenage Dream and Prism, my life, my personal life was kind of not really working.

My professional life was working, you know.

And then when Witness shifted everything, it started to come more into balance.

And then Smile really solidified it.

And now One for Three is the celebration of feeling kind of that wholeness.

Yeah.

You know, operating out of that wholeness, which is a space I've never written a record from.

I've always written a record from defense or not feeling enough or trying to, you know, transmute my trauma, whatever that was, and to change it.

And so I always say this is like the biggest lie I think artists have ever been sold is that they have to stay in pain in order to create.

Yeah, suffer for art.

Yeah, suffer for art.

If they go to therapy, then they won't be them, you know, that person.

That's absolutely not true.

That's a lie.

Yeah, it is a lie.

From the pits of hell.

No, it is.

It's true.

I actually think a better understanding of what you've been through and what enables you to be able to communicate it more succinctly and in a more direct way, there's definitely emotions on this record that come from all those previous experiences on this album.

There's a through line here.

It's not like you're transformed into a completely different person.

And even if I have, it's my life.

It's your life.

And I'm going to live it.

There it is.

I feel like that's been you from day dot since we've known you.

Were you like that as a kid?

Were you very sort of, you know, emboldened?

Black sheep, yes.

I ask questions from the get.

From the jump.

I see that in chapel a little bit.

It's like, it's my life.

I'm going to live it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thank you for coming along on my ride.

Your parents must have found that ironic to some degree, given that from what I've read, they actually started their lives kind of living their life and then they found purpose through religion.

And then you came out and were like, hang on, what's this life all about?

Yeah.

And they're like, but we're going to.

I'm going to find my purpose along the way.

It's just, it may not look like the way that you did it.

Exactly.

Or would it be forced on me?

Exactly.

I think that's just tale as old as time with kids.

Yeah.

I've shudder to think how that goes for people if they try to force ideas your way.

No, no, no.

I mean, I am a little bit stubborn because I'm a five-time Scorpio.

You made it sound like they were Grammys.

I'm a five-time Scorpio.

I've won five Scorpios.

I did.

I actually chose this life.

I chose to be that five-time Scorpio.

And it's intense, but it's amazing.

The creativity, the creativity, the imagination, the worlds that I get to dream up and actually make real, the lives that I get to speak to and sometimes change the impressions I get to make, all of it.

It's brilliant.

I'm a real manifester.

I think you're a master manifester.

Yeah.

I think you bend time in reality and I've seen, you know, I think, you know, what you've achieved throughout your life in terms of knocking things down proves that.

I'm a big believer in the bending of energy.

So I think you-

Everything's energy.

I think you figured it out.

Yeah.

In fact, let me ask you, when do you think you figured that out?

Oh, there is no there there.

It's just forever going to be a process of unpeeling and evolving.

And the moment I think I've got it, it just slips out.

There is no there there at all.

And like the more, more like investigating you do, actually, the more you realize, wow, it's just infinite.

It's so infinite and so beautiful.

Can I ask you how you found out you're a five-time Scorpio winner?

Five-time Scorpio winner?

Um, I, I, I've done a lot of chart readings.

And so a lot of astrologers have told me that.

And then I'm very into, um, a lot of different versions of that.

Like that's, that's those, like the stars are really my guide.

I use the stars every single day as, as a way to kind of GPS what's coming next.

It's kind of like, um, like, you know, everybody looks up, well, what's the weather going to be like today?

Well, I look up my stars and I go, okay, this is what, what's coming and how do I play it?

And this is how I'm going to play it.

I've had some really interesting experiences along the way myself where things have been, you know, uncannily on time, uh, through that kind of, that process.

But there's also a little part of me, and maybe you can help me understand it a little bit better, that sometimes wonder which one is chicken and which one's egg, you know, which who's leading who?

Like, am I, am I being led by the stars or am I looking into the star?

You know, how?

I think you get a choice.

I believe in free will.

And I think that you get, there's two options here, a positive and a negative.

And even in the negative, you can still find the positive.

Like all of the shifting that I've been through in my life, the ups, the downs, the peaks, the valleys, it's like, if you don't find a way to sow seeds in the valleys, you'll never find those fruits in the peaks.

So you got to find what it is.

And I'm a kind of a, an eternal optimist when it comes to that.

What do you like when it comes to reading people then?

Cause I can imagine that you search for something beyond this very immediately beyond the surface and that your curiosity is searching for something that is gravitational.

When I speak with people?

When you meet people, how are you a judge?

How, how's your judge a character based on what you know and how you lead your life?

Very intuitive.

And I just kind of read their energy and I just, I, you know, I'm very like, even with my fans, I can hold their hands, I can look into their eyes and I can see where they're at, what they need and, and maybe give them something that they're looking for, whether that's a word of encouragement or just being seen, looking into their eyes.

Like people don't look into people's eyes as much.

And so to be seen to like, look deeply into someone's eyes is really, really powerful.

And to sing to them and to hear them, listen to their stories, just, just to acknowledge that they exist.

It must make performing really at times overwhelming for you because, you know, you're obviously very in touch with people and search for ways to connect.

Um, and when you've got 15, 20, 60,000 people there who are, you know, appreciating what it is that you're giving us, the music, the joy, it's a gift.

Um, there must be times when it's, it's even hard for you to be able to contain or to process.

I use a lot of tools before I go on stage to kind of fortify myself.

Fortify is an interesting word.

Fortify is an interesting word.

So to prepare yourself.

To prepare myself.

So like, I typically don't look at my phone an hour before I go on stage because, you know, someone can send you a text that has some information that just goes, what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So disconnect.

Yeah.

And I want to be in, in, in it.

Um, and, um, I, I, every tour that I do, I get to bring out, um, these meditation teachers from Transcendental Meditation, which I've been doing for 15 years and they teach everyone.

Um, and so we do it every, every show day at 6 PM all together.

And there's just this energy that's created that we all share.

That's incredible.

And it shifts.

Oh my gosh.

Just like a, yes, a stoicism, a calmness, a like a strength.

We know what this is.

We know what this is.

Yeah.

And, um, you know, when I, with this new record going out, the energy that I am hoping to create is celebratory, is freedom, is freedom to be yourself, freedom to be sweaty, freedom to dance with a stranger.

That's what's so great about music and live experiences is because you only get that in like, you know, we used to live as tribes.

We used to live in communes.

We don't have that as much anymore.

Um, and you do get to experience that when you are in a live setting.

You're literally standing or sitting next to a person you've never met in your life and you catch a lyric with them.

And they're just like, they're in your face.

They're like connecting with you.

And like, all of a sudden you don't feel so alone.

There's that oneness feeling.

So that's, what's so great about performing live and what I hope to do with 143 is just like a continual nonstop party.

Everyone's invited.

Doesn't matter who you are, 8 to 80, all over the world.

And that's the kind of music I wanted to create for that live event.

I think I'm have the most fun in my life.

Life.

That's always been you, I feel.

I feel like inclusivity and the idea that everyone should be able to come and have an experience and be themselves is a big part of what endeared us to you in the first place.

And you're right, it's very much here on this album, this idea of, um, it's okay to just be yourself and enjoy yourself.

Is there a song that you feel like really speaks to that the most on this record here?

Honestly, like, Gorgeous is going to come out when it comes out.

And it's just kind of an unapologetic, unapologetic moment of like, I'm feeling myself and, you know, whichever way, whatever makes you feel gorgeous physically, um, on that level, maybe it speaks to it in that way.

But a lot of the songs were written out of this, um, real connection that I found after having my child to this feminine divine, this creative energy.

Like, I literally created a whole other brain, a whole set of other organs.

I'm like, whoa, if I can do that, what else can I do?

It's so crazy.

It's pretty trippy when you think about how complex a creature we are and then it actually comes from.

Yeah.

And so I really have tapped into that energy and, you know, there's a song like, um, um, all the love, which is a really important song for me, um, because it speaks about that journey of looking, you know, every mountain that I climbed, like I, I climbed Everest, guys.

I put my flag in Everest.

It's still there.

That's crazy.

It's crazy.

I did it.

You genuinely did it.

Well, not really, but I, I'm open, but I climbed it.

And so, and I saw that view and I was like, great onwards.

And then I climbed other mountains and then the view kind of got repetitive.

And I was like, what is, there's not, there's gotta be another thing out there.

And so I had my child and, and I was like, oh, this is the view.

All the love I was ever looking for.

Comes back.

It came back.

It comes back.

I'm full up.

I'm full up.

Um, so I think all the love is really, really special and important.

Lifetimes is also very special and important because I feel like I've met my soulmate with her.

Um, and, uh, you know, I think that's what we're all searching for is to be seen and witnessed in a way from other people or a person that can go on that journey with you.

Um, and then wonder.

Now, can we talk about that?

What?

That song is special.

I think.

Wonder?

Yeah.

Oh, I love the fact that, um, it has, it has that Katy Perry effect.

The whole album does very much.

So, I mean, if you're a Katy Perry fan, you know, you're in a good place with this album.

Very happy.

But wonder is one of those moments that I feel like I was surprised that you haven't earmarked that.

I know gorgeous stands out.

I know lifetime stands out.

I know why woman's world came out.

We spoke about that.

But wonder to me feels like a smasher.

Like that hook is just like.

The people will, the people will decide.

Will decide.

It's for the people.

They will decide.

I've decided.

I think wonder is a hit.

Thank you.

Um, it's very special.

It's just about not losing that innocence, that playfulness, that imagination.

Imagination, like real intelligence is imagination because we're all creators.

Like this is all a thought to like bring these lamps in.

It was a thought.

Now it's a reality.

That's a thought.

To have this here.

It's a thought.

Your thoughts are so powerful.

That's your imagination.

And then to create reality from that, that's like, whoa.

So to never lose that light in your eyes, that, that innocence, even though the world is just a little bit tough and hard and, you know, everybody, everybody's going through something like, and there, and a lot of times I think everyone's trying to find something or someone to transfer their trauma onto their unprocessed, whatever they're going through.

And they're like, okay, here you go.

Here you go.

That's what it is.

And so to never lose that, that playfulness and that childlikeness.

And that's what wonder is about.

I think it's to some degree, one of the reasons why music and art is so magical is it is a place for us to explore those areas, even when reality isn't, isn't that.

And right now.

Well, it's all frequency and energy.

I mean, it's all frequency.

It's all sound.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let there be light was a sound.

Yep.

The big bang was a sound.

Sound.

It's all sound.

So the sound penetrates you in a way and it either opens you up or makes you think or breaks glass or makes you shit your pants.

So I think that's why music is magical is because it penetrates, it gets in.

It's like a laser.

It's a laser.

I spent so long in my early parts of my career trying to analyze sound and realize that that was the wrong approach.

And I should be talking to the people who made it about what they think and not about the process because the process is beautiful.

But at the end of the day, it's like, there's a lot that goes into making music that shouldn't ever be truly discovered.

Right.

Like you don't really know where this, a lot of this music came from.

I mean, you know where the spirit of it lies and what inspired you.

But on that day you went into the studio to make, I don't know, crush.

It's not like you had it in your head.

It just kind of emerged.

Right.

And with this, it was a thing.

I think, I mean, I have these ideas and I'm constantly writing, constantly taking notes.

I think it's coming.

I think it's a channeling of sorts.

That's what it is.

You know, it's coming from a different place.

It's coming from my highest self that maybe lives in a different dimension is like, here you go.

Especially songs like Roar and Firework where I'm like really down in the dumps.

Don't know if I can keep doing whatever I'm doing.

It's like, well, I guess I'll write this to help encourage myself.

And then all of a sudden it encourages a generation.

So Firework was a result of a depressed state of a doubt.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And trying to encourage myself out of that.

Can I, I've never talked to you because about that in particular, and we'll come back to 143 in a second, but it's interesting to me because that song has been used as a form of celebration of uplifting.

I mean, at the highest level of government, literally, you know, firework.

So it's like, you know what I mean?

So it's like, it doesn't get bigger than that in terms of like, let's celebrate victory or whatever it is to be alive.

The height of individualism.

The height of, exactly, call it what you will.

But where were you when you wrote it?

What was going on?

Yeah, I probably, I don't know specifically.

Specifically, I think I was just trying to, you know, make my mark and leave my fingerprint and feel like I was born for a purpose.

And maybe I was not feeling it that day or that week when I wrote it.

I remember I wrote it in the studio with Stargate and I was inspired by a Kerouac book where it's just like never be a dull person, I'm paraphrasing, and like, make, be like a firework.

Make people go, ah, it's not ah, it's ah, and not on, it's ah, it's ah.

Um, and so that, that, that little quote from the book, um, really inspired me and I just felt like, okay, I know I was born for this purpose and, and I hope everybody finds that.

They find their spark and they nurture it and it becomes a firework.

I think that's, that's our journey as humans in this human game is to figure out what we were put on this planet for, do it well, figure out your karma and try and ace the game.

You know, it could have been so different for you.

You were in a situation as a, um, younger artist where, I mean, it's like page 67 in the, in the sort of music industry cliche handbook of like, no, not interested.

Don't want to listen to it.

Not going to sign you.

Rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection.

Yes.

And it was a tough time for you before.

Um, I remember going to the Chateau Marmont and meeting friends that were more affluent and well off.

And I remember parking my car in a neighborhood because I wasn't going to pay the $20 parking.

And then I remember getting there and having a fantastic time, but I only had water and a side salad.

And then at the end with 14 people, they said, let's split the bill.

And I went into the bathroom and cried because I was like, I don't have any of this.

I don't have it.

That's just an example of like, I, my car was re-possessed twice.

My Jetta, my Prius.

I slept on so many.

Yeah.

The Jetta, the black Jetta.

Um, I slept on so many couches.

I was signed and dropped three times from Ireland, from Columbia.

And then Capital picked me up and it's been, I love them.

They've been incredible partners.

Um, I've been through it, you know.

Well, you're the largest selling artist and Capital records.

Am I?

I don't know.

I think so.

Great.

Good partnership.

Um, yes.

Great partnership.

I think it's, to be exact, 143 million records.

I don't know.

Am I?

I think it's 143.

Well, the only reason why I know that.

Give or take a million.

No, the only reason why I know that is because when I saw that on my wiki page, once 143 was kind of coming to me very, very much a lot.

I was like 143 million records.

Okay, cool.

A nice little sign that I feel very, very in alignment.

I would never not believe you, but, um.

I think it's like adjusted albums.

I don't know what that means anymore.

What the fuck is an adjusted album?

I don't really know how they count things anymore.

Oh, shit.

Having sold now over 143 million units worldwide.

There's the angels.

I am that girl that loves kind of my angel numbers.

Well, because they're working for you.

They are working for me.

They are really working for you.

Yeah.

I mean, there's an album called 143.

Damn, I forgot.

I even knew this.

You played the Warped Tour.

Yeah, dude.

That's fucking serious.

Listen, I guess you forget.

People think, a lot of people have only known me since I've been Teenage Dream girly, right?

They don't know that there was a journey before that and that there was a lot of hustle.

And there were no steps that were skipped.

Who was on the Warped Tour with you that year?

Do you remember?

Was it like No Effects or like those bands?

Gosh, all of those bands.

All those bands.

What a grind.

It was amazing.

I crowd surfed.

Of course you did.

And I still crowd surf.

At your shows?

Any venue that'll have me crowd surf.

I did it at the club the other day.

Yeah, I heard you had a good party.

Was it fun?

It was fun.

Yeah.

People were screaming these songs at me.

I was like, oh.

I really like Smile.

We spoke about Smile.

I've told you at the time and I still think Daisies is one of your best songs.

I love that song.

Oh, thank you.

It's an incredible performance and I think the message is really strong.

Thank you.

I also know Smile played a purpose in your life beyond just making great music.

You know, it was also another transformative recording experience.

They all are, but this one gave you a place to express yourself, right?

Yeah.

For a tough time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And made way for 143, which I think is why now when we hear this record and we hear you just like light, like alive, like your eyes are lit up.

Yeah, I'm here.

You're here.

I'm here, yeah.

And that's why everyone's really missed it.

It's really lovely to see.

It's so fun.

And I mean, I'm just enjoying myself.

I love creating the art that I create and whoever wants to come on the journey, it's a fun ride and everyone's invited.

Let's talk about being in the studio.

Can we do that?

Because these songs got to come from somewhere.

And what kind of collaborator are you?

How do you like to work with people?

What's important to you when you're in a creative space?

What's important are lyrics.

It's the marrying of lyrics with a great beat.

It's a process of word volleying, you know, it's almost like a game.

I have a lot of broad strokes that I always have on me, whether that's titles or ideas or, you know, things I've read about or things I'm interested in.

And just being an observer.

I can sit on a park bench and write a song by watching humanity walk by and all the different mannerisms and conversations they're having.

And, you know, just by being an observer and using that information.

And I love making the record.

That's like, well, actually writing a record is one of the most fun processes.

Making it is a little bit tough because it's the tedious stuff.

It's actually the engineering and the mechanics of it.

And then performing it live is really the payoff.

That's the payoff of all of it.

And those are kind of the three steps of making a record.

It sounds to me like the songwriting is the most present one because you're constantly observing and, like you say, journaling, taking notes, taking ideas.

We have, this is a good question, six or seven albums from you.

Well, I've written seven.

That's what I'm saying.

But do you consider it to be, what's your relationship like with that first one?

Because it feels like a whole other lifetime.

Yeah, that relationship, I think, was, I mean, that record, it came from a very genuine place.

And an endearing place, you know, where I still thought that, you know, heaven and hell was an actual location and not in your mind.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I had a lot of different belief systems at the time.

I don't think I was, I didn't have the awareness.

Yeah.

I was super young.

But you count it as an album.

Yeah, because I wrote it, you know, and I wrote it and it came from a certain place.

And it came from my love of God and spirituality and the unknown and all that stuff.

Yeah.

But it's not, it's not something that I would ever play live.

I just.

No, that's what I mean.

It's kind of an interesting.

It's a process of investigation.

Yeah, exactly.

It sits in the timeline and holds its place.

But there's six Katy Perry albums and there's one album that came before Katy Perry.

Yeah.

So there's a lot of songs that obviously are sitting in various states and ideas and thoughts.

And I don't know, like, is there a Katy Perry that writes with and for other people that we don't know about?

Or have you ever really explored that as a writer and not just as Katy Perry, the performer who performs her own song?

It's something I'd love to do more of later on.

But I write a big batch of songs, typically.

And then sometimes I have parts that are not finished or, you know, they didn't work right on the record.

And so they find other homes.

There's lots of other songs that, you know, Kelly Clarkson has done, Selena Gomez has done one, Britney has done one, all in the past.

But I think the landscape of the music industry has changed so much.

There's so much choice.

I mean, there's so many songs that come out.

There's, it's, you know, it's been, there's no, there's no real gatekeepers.

It's been democratized.

Like every little industry is getting democratized right now as we watch it.

You know, it's like, whoa, the floodgates are opening and it's amazing.

And I think, especially in the next five years, you know, I'm, I'm just so grateful that I, I got to start when I started because it's going to be all about solidifying who you are as a brand, as a personality.

What is your voice?

What do you have to offer?

What are you trying to say?

What's your world?

What's your world?

And then, and then it's going to, it's after five years, I think with AI, it's just going to be, there's going to be so much.

I don't know, man.

I mean, I love artificial on the album.

We were playing that when you walked in and I love the, I love how art is flirting with the concept of artificial intelligence in a creative sense.

I'm less worried about it affecting the creatives.

I think it's a great tool.

It's amazing tool.

I think you want to make music.

Yeah.

And so you're going to make music and you're going to go through the ups and downs of it, the challenges, the sleepless nights, the process, because it's fulfilling.

Yeah.

Shortcuts just aren't fun.

No.

I mean, look, also remember AI is going to cure diseases.

Exactly.

We have to cool it a bit in the music industry because often we, because we're immersed in it, we love it and we know the power of, and the spiritual power of music.

Whenever there's a big change in the horizon, I certainly know that me and my friends get super hyped up.

Like, what's it going to do with music?

Well, look at streaming.

Look at streaming.

Sure.

In the beginning, artists were like, what the hell is this?

And I was like, it's a bridge.

It's a bridge.

Let's walk over it.

I literally was like that like eight years ago.

I was like, this is incredible.

This is going to make everyone be able to access music in a larger way.

And you were right.

And that's how things got democratized.

That plus, of course, you know, the addition of social media and the ability to market yourself without necessarily needing to hire somebody allowed a lot of artists to break through.

So, but what I mean by cool it is I think we get really scared about that.

And I'm like, hey, listen, AI has much bigger fish to fry than music right now.

Like, it has a lot of places that it's going to be.

Climate change.

Yeah.

Like, it would be really good if it helped there.

And it'd be really good if it.

We don't have any of these arguments if we don't have a planet to argue on.

Correct.

Okay.

Correct.

End of story.

Little context, little perspective in the music business.

But that's why I wrote Artificial, which is on 143, kind of with that curiosity, like, what are you going to be?

And I think what it's going to be is it's going to be both good and Very, very tough.

Needing to be restrained with some boundaries.

That's it.

You know, there's duality in everything.

Yeah.

There'll need to be a serious level of responsibility later to the people who are deciding to scale it because it's going to have major impact.

But there are much smarter people than me to get that conversation.

Yeah, we don't need to be pros on that.

But you know who might be is your children, is your daughter.

Because she's being born.

My alpha?

Yeah.

Generation alpha.

We started all over again.

You have a generation alpha.

And she's an alpha.

She's a real alpha.

In what ways?

Can I ask?

Oh, she's just, like, not shy.

I mean, I think she's a product of both parents being very, you know, bold.

Go get them.

Oh, go get them.

And Orlando and I, when we argue, we argue kind of hot and fast and then cool really quickly.

Oh my God, it's so funny.

It's me and my wife at the same time.

And we're like, ah, I love you.

All right, let's move on.

But it's very, like, cats doing a quick, like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

I think the way that we're described by other families is they're a loud family.

I think we're a loud family.

Yes, we are a loud family.

We call ourselves the Chaos Crew.

I'm sure that's...

That's how we justify it, right?

Listen, we laugh loud.

We love loud.

We fight loud.

We're just a loud family.

We are fire, fire, fire.

And so she, you know, she sees all that.

And she loves watching mom perform, loves watching mom do what she does.

And she's just, she was born on a certain day and looking at all of her charts, she was born, you know, she's a king.

You know, it's a byproduct of what has obviously been a really life-changing relationship for you.

Yeah.

And pretty amazing that, you know, you two found each other.

And I've only ever met your other half very briefly, but he's got lovely energy about him.

He does.

He does.

He's a real sage.

Yeah.

When he's, you know, we both have parts of ourselves.

Like, you know, there's two parts of us, right?

Our highest good and then our, you know, our carnal material self.

Ego.

Our ego.

Our ego.

Okay.

When the ego is running the show, then it's like, whoa.

But when, when that's in check, then he's, you know, we're both, we're both, uh, something else.

He seems pretty equally curious as to what else there is.

Oh my gosh.

Yes.

That's what I wanted.

You know, I actually, um, when I met him almost nine years ago, uh, before I met him, um, I was kind of stuck in a bad, you know, continuing loop.

Right.

And then, so I, I, I was like, fuck this.

Can I say that?

Your letter.

No, it's fine.

I was like, fuck this.

I was like, I'm going to go swim in a different pond.

I want to try something else.

I'm going to say yes to something.

I wouldn't normally say yes.

But before I go to the golden globes, which I was like, ah, you know, but I, I was like, you know, I'll do it.

I want to go see what's out there in the world.

And I was like, but I'm going to set so many intentions on this full moon.

I'm going to write out exactly what I want.

I'm going to wear a rose quartz dress to track the love that I want.

And the two things I wrote down very specifically is I want someone to meet me in the adventure department.

Cause I love adventure.

I mean, we just jumped out of a helicopter together to get here today.

Yeah.

No, just for fun into the water.

Right.

And, and we really do.

And then someone that is as spiritually curious as I am.

So he really like just checked both.

How do you know that when you meet somebody and how long does it take to figure out that they're going to match up to that, to that, to that kind of like very personal expectation of like spiritual curiosity and adventurism?

Well, you just know after spending time with them, after living with them, after they move in, you know, there's no, there's no hiding.

Oh, it's, it's, it's like, um, it's a, you know, it's a seven day a week relationship, not just a.

Moving in.

The way you said that was.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday relationship.

Those are easy.

Well, never since you moved in.

And then what gets revealed when you have a child.

I mean, like life is not peachy keen jelly bean.

It's about the, it's about who you are in those really challenging moments.

It's work.

And I get to see who he is in those challenging moments and it's, it's why I chose him.

Yeah, man.

Respect, respect.

Yeah.

It's beautiful.

It's all in the music, huh?

Yeah, it is.

It is.

All that joy and all that kind of like.

It is.

And, and all that kind of like, like, like, um, feminine freedom, like just like sexual and happy and grounded in that root chakra.

And like, I'm going to be 40 soon.

And I feel the best I've ever felt.

I'm just going out there.

I guess they say when you get into your forties, you really, really don't care.

Yeah.

I mean, every, every decade, it's like.

It's less and less.

It's less and less.

You're like.

Yeah, it's true.

You really become who you're meant to be.

Yeah.

That's definitely happened to me since my last milestone where I got to a point and a lot of the stuff that used to really plague me and haunt me and just kind of follow me around.

Like, and I mean, I make that sound serious, but just like a lot of ambitions and things that used to piss me off.

The longer you live, the better you get at living it.

You also emerged out of a really, really crazy time for television.

And you, you know, had a very successful run on Idol, um, doing that show.

And I haven't met too many people who have kind of like spent that amount of time on a show of that scale working in effectively music, but ultimately in television as well and the marriage between the two.

And it has to be successful in both for it to really work.

Um, when you finally stepped away from that, how many years was it?

Six, seven years?

Seven seasons.

Seven seasons.

When you finally stepped away with it, and it's not lost on us that you stepped away from that and we have one, four, three, and it's like, cool.

I want to get back to this now.

Um, what was it like, you know, that, that experience looking back on it?

I think we took it one year at a time mostly.

And then obviously the pandemic happened and I was just like, whoa, I still have a job.

Yeah.

How great.

I'm so grateful.

Right.

Yeah.

And, um, I got so much out of it.

I was constantly reminded of where I came from, you know, just, just, just the humble beginnings, the fight, the hustle.

Watching people do that on the stage every day.

This, the, you know, not the fear, cause I feel like I never really had that fear, but just like the grind and the, and the desire and the passion.

So reminded me of that still out there and to, to hold on to that feeling continually and just reminded me about humanity and, and to reconnect with people and be like, to, to help guide them in this way and nurture them, uh, I've been fortunate to have a lot of regular talk therapy and I've gotten so much from that.

And I've been able to kind of give little bits of that in, in my American idol life and to really connect with people and to see them.

I don't know.

I just like that five times Scorpio that I am, it really allows me that intuitive, like I really can see what like people are going through.

Is that, it doesn't make it really hard when you have to let people down though, because for every winner, there has to be a lot of people that don't win.

Yes, but I don't think it's the end of the world.

I mean, you know, I being, having it all and having it change and being through so many variables, like knowing that that it is not the actual end of the world, I can safely say like, yeah, this is, this is, this is going to be upsetting.

This is going to change, but this possibly is going to be the making of the real you of the you you're supposed to be, you know, whatever that is.

I think it's, it's okay.

I do have a lot of boundaries.

I am a very firm, um, fun, uh, somewhat fair mom, you know, and to all the people I was on with American idol, I felt very firm, fair, fun.

And I also saw them, I felt like, it was just, it was just like a real, like, um, constant

giving back.

Like they, I got so much from them.

If they got anything from me, I was grateful for it, but I got so much from them.

And that's why I continued to do it.

And also because like we were living, we were, you know, during that pandemic time, it was like, whoa, what is going on?

What are we doing?

So, you know, and I also knew I was always going to step away from the, the show when I decided to do another world tour, another big record because I had to create space.

And that's why, that's why like a small part of why I did Vegas.

I mean, I did a Vegas because I wanted to create this show that you could only create in Vegas.

And so I was doing Vegas and idol at the same time and raising a whole human being, you know, that I had to be responsible for and that I wanted to get right so that I had to, I would spend less money on therapy in the future for the both of us.

For the both of us.

That's right.

Yeah.

Cause every mistake we make is going to cost us in therapy.

Yeah, exactly.

So then it was, and I, and I, and I loved it so much.

It was so wonderful.

I appreciated everything about it.

And it was just time for me to create space for one, four, three.

You know, you're just insatiable.

Your ability to, well, not even ability.

Insatiable.

Oh, Corey.

No, it's good.

It's a good word.

I like insatiable.

What, what, what I mean by it is, you know, you have this, um, ability is the wrong word.

Insatiable is the right word.

So I'm going to get it right the second time.

You have this insatiable curiosity and, and like you say, ability to turn your attention to something and, and bring it to life.

The manifest, manifestation, as you referred to it before.

The manifest generator.

Yeah.

What part of that, does it ever get exhausting?

The idea that, you know, you know, you have something and once it takes hold, you've got to see it through and you, but you know, the road ahead of you is going to be long.

Like, but you did 118 or 117 dates on the witness world tour.

Yeah.

I was, that was a different time of my life.

Things were all shifting.

Um, and now that they've landed in a new, fresh cement, I feel a lot stronger.

I was definitely a little bit, uh, vulnerable at that time because it was the shift of everything for me.

It was the coming out of the loop, you know?

So did the road help that?

Did the 117 shows, cause that's just running, right?

Really touring on it in its very nature is just running.

Yeah, it is running.

It is running.

Um, yes, because I get, I got to experience the love every night from the fans and, and, and their admiration for the music, you know, they were showing up every single time they wanted it.

So that was great.

It was better than me sitting at home, you know, twiddling my thumbs and going like, what do I do?

But after I got off that tour, I was like, okay, it's time to do some real work here.

Like going out in nature is something that may be accessible to all people and nature will really ground you.

Like literally touch grass, guys, go touch grass.

That's a real thing in the morning.

First thing you do, if you can, if you've got an environment around you, I mean, it's tough if you're living in an apartment or whatever, I get that.

But if you have any space around you that there's a, if there's a, if there's any outdoor space between your front door and the world, then they suggest the first thing you do when you get up is even when, if it's dark.

Or just put your face in the sun for five minutes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's all that vitamin D.

It's the Canadian rhythm.

Yes, the Canadian rhythm.

But just like also meditation is out there for you.

You have to lean in and investigate it, but it's all there and it's essentially free tools.

I just started it.

Well, I didn't start it in the sense that I've, I'm.

You just started it?

Well, I've had, I've had a lot of false starts.

This is pretty well documented interviews because I, because obviously in the kind of conversations I have with artists, there's a real curiosity in, in, in a, in a language.

Yeah.

So I've spoken to quite a few artists who have done and learned and still practice meditation of some description, transcendental otherwise.

Yeah.

It's, it's really the last part of the journey for me, like the fitness and the yoga and the stretching and the mindfulness.

Or it's the beginning of the journey for you.

I like the way you twist my words and make them better.

Thank you.

No, it might be the beginning of the new foundation of you.

No, it's true.

It's true.

You know, you phrased it perfectly.

I heard something the other day that really rang true for me.

The final frontier is not outer space.

It's inner space.

Great.

Fucking, I'll buy that.

I don't know.

It's like, amen.

I'll buy that.

It's good.

Yeah.

I mean, I love outer space too.

Let's go explore.

Would you get on a rocket ship?

One thousand percent.

I've always been curious about the unknown and outer space and, you know, are we the only humans?

What is it?

You know, even when people go, when people go, I love you to the moon and back.

I'm like, that's it.

Why don't you say Pluto?

Pluto's a lot farther.

That means you love them a lot more if you say Pluto.

And that's kind of a planet.

We've, we've, we've, we've solidified that that's a planet.

You're a love monster.

I'm a love monster.

I'm just also like a, like, I love, I love investigating science, right?

Right.

And astrophysics and all that stuff.

Anyways, about 10 years ago, no, 15 years ago, goodness, maybe more.

I bought a ticket to space for a previous partner.

And I, and I remember for their birthday, it was on Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic.

And, and that's, I'm not sure where that stands now, but I was so interested.

I threw down the money to do that.

And I like walked into the, to the party slow-mo in my astronaut suit with the ticket, you know, that's how I did it.

But I've.

Like Ben Stiller would jinxie cat and meet the parents.

You've got like a ticket to space.

Yes.

You know what?

I've suddenly figured it out, right?

I mean, if it's Mars, it's Mars.

It's probably going to be somewhere.

I mean, maybe not in our lifetime, not far off, but it's going to be somewhere.

I mean, we're going to have to fucking like grab our duffel bags and split somewhere at some point because we're kind of.

Oh, leaving?

Well, let's hope not.

Let's hope that we're changing.

No, no, I want to stay.

I love this planet, but I'm just saying if.

Well, let's hope we can figure out, you know, that enzyme that eats up all the plastic.

That'd be smart.

I think we're on our way.

I remain hopeful.

So do I.

But in the event that our hope is misplaced, it'll be you.

Okay.

Do you want to go to Mars?

Do you want to terraform Mars?

Have you seen the conditions on Mars?

I'm not quite sure that's where we want to go.

First performance.

We want to go to Air One, not Mars.

You're ignoring what I'm telling you because you're scared.

Because the first performer on Mars will be Katy Perry, I guarantee.

No, I might be the first performer in space, but we'll see.

Wow.

That'd be, I mean, but it's a small crowd.

Well.

It's like three other astronauts.

And by the way, you could qualify that just by literally singing, in fact, firework acapella.

Yes, I will qualify that.

Exactly.

You're going to tour this album?

Yeah.

Of course, in some capacity.

Yeah.

I'm about to do a bunch of really big shows, actually.

After this interview, I go straight to rehearsal.

Yeah.

How does that feel, the idea?

Sorry to cut you off, but I'm really interested to know how rehearsal feels.

Going back into rehearsal is like...

I don't love working out in a gym.

I like to swim.

Like, that's where my arms come from.

I'm a swimmer.

I like this meditative process.

I love veiled exercise.

So when I get to dance, I get so back into my body, out of my head, into my heart.

And I'm like soaring.

I'm like having so much fun.

I create, you know, I have a community of dancers, a team.

We all have these ideas.

Again, it's that creative, imaginative process.

You have these ideas, and then they go on paper, and then they become reality.

And you're like, holy shit, my thoughts are so powerful.

So powerful.

I better get them right.

I better rinse and repeat.

It's show number three, and these were all bad ideas.

Yeah, I mean, and so we're getting ready for VMAs.

We're getting ready for...

Oh, by the way, Video Vanguard Award.

Please, everybody, Video Vanguard Award.

VMAs, Video Vanguard Award.

It's an opportunity to, you know, do my thing, show off where I've been and where I'm heading.

Nice to put.

And I'm really grateful for that time that MTV is...

You know, we've been on that journey together for a long time, and so it's really kind to them.

And then I go and go to Rock and Rio on the release date of my album.

What's that, quarter of a million people?

It's 100,000 people, yeah.

And it sold out in 143 minutes.

No.

No, it sold out in one hour and 43 minutes, yeah.

You're kidding me.

No.

I mean, I thought it was bogus, too.

And then we had lots of people check it, and I was like, okay, thanks.

This is wild.

Yeah.

I think we need to keep the stencils out there in the car park.

Keep the stencils out there, yeah.

Because magic shit's going to happen in this car park.

Magic is all around us.

It's just waiting for us to lean in.

My car's just magically upgraded.

I mean, all of a sudden I came back, and it's the new model.

I don't know how that happened.

It's in the 143 car park.

It is all around us, and this is a nice way for us to slow down in this particular conversation is to just stay in that observational framework a little bit more.

It's yours like power-chugging coffee.

I'm drinking a little coffee because I stayed up and signed a lot of vinyl inserts last night.

You really are back at work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the end, don't you do that thing where you sign it so many times that your signature just starts to look like blah, blah, blah.

No, but there's a lot of spaghetti bolognese on a few of them.

There's a lot of different, like, Uber Eats, like, food.

You just let them go?

Yeah, oh, yeah, there's splats on them.

Daisy's signed a few of them, actually.

That's very cute.

There's probably 25 that Daisy signed because she sees me, and she's like, I want to do it.

And so I'm like, okay, well, here.

And she just signed it over my face, which I'm like, do you think the fans will be okay with that?

I think they'll be okay.

You mean, they get the record, and they open it up, and it's like the scroll over your face, and it's like, wow, Katie's having a bad day.

And then sometimes a Sharpie will run out, and I'll be like, all right, sorry, on the side of it.

But it feels so bespoke.

I love that.

Yeah, it's cool.

I always love it when people take it to another level like that.

There's this story about Jack White, how there's still very early White Stripes demos and cassettes that are inside the upholstery of the couches that he reupholstered as his day job when he was a kid.

So when he was first making music, he recorded White Stripe songs just figuring it out, and he put the tapes inside the upholstery of the couches that he upholstered.

So people are sitting on couches, right, old vintage couches, and don't realize that they're sitting in this, like, priceless White Stripes demo that may never be found until.

That's very interesting.

I love when there's, like, a news article.

It's like, they found a note in the wall from the 60s.

Yeah, right?

Just cool shit that you never know.

But, like, people are going to start dismantling their living rooms now hearing this.

That's interesting.

I like to put crystals in my walls and things like that.

He's like that, though.

He's tapped into the magic.

Is he?

Very much so.

Cool.

It must be kind of cool for you to realize that you've got to a place in your life where, you know, anything's possible because you see in between the lines.

You've got a beautiful family now that you can raise in earnest.

Do you feel that that is really where the ultimate change sits?

Because we always talk about wanting to make change, and I think that's—and this is a big question— but I think sometimes we get caught up in the framework of change, and we forget that, actually, it's probably, to your point, an inner conversation rather than an outer ambition.

Is that really where you stand at this point in your life?

What are you trying to say?

That you are—that you're going to make a better decision.

You're going to do better for the world if you focus on the magic and your inner voice and what you're trying to say than you are by trying to kind of go out there and figure it all out in one go.

Yeah, I mean, like I said, what is figuring it all out?

Is it—I mean, is it having, like, a number—was that it?

I mean, I've had all that, and I think that the value for me is that inner game, is the game of acing being a human.

Because at the end of the day, you're not taking any of this sparkle with you.

You know, you're—it's like—it's all gone.

So what are you going to take with you?

You're going to take whatever your soul has learned, whatever experience you had.

That's my belief system.

But it's—yeah, if I'm operating from this space, it's more centered.

It's more in touch.

It's more in tune.

It's more authentic.

And I think One for Three is really a celebration of all of this love and joy and light.

And it's what I want to give out to the world, because I hope that people can find it for themselves.

You know, it exists out there.

And you know the Beatles?

They said, like—

A few things.

A few things.

And I was always like, you know, when I was younger, I was like, oh, that's the symbol and cliche, whatever.

Love is all you need.

I think they were right about that.

Yeah, I think we're lucky to still be making music after the end.

Yes, exactly.

It's like, love is all you need.

Sometimes I listen to Bob Dylan.

One for three.

I go back and I listen to some early Bob Dylan.

I'm like, man, 22-year-old Bob Dylan just could have put a cap in music at that point.

You know what I mean?

Oh, my God.

John Lee Hooker could have put a cap in music.

Aretha Franklin just could have put a cap in music.

Like, did it.

Sang it.

I would—yeah.

I mean, it's like the kind of fearlessness and just stoicism and, like, I'm going to be me.

This is what I'm giving.

And what's for dinner?

Fucking dinner.

You know, this is it.

What is for dinner?

Well, it's fucking dinner.