Novak Djokovic REVEALS His Secret Mindset Shift That ENDS Self-Doubt...

Not having success is not an option.

I have to succeed.

It's basically a matter of existence, a survival of my family.

The world's number one Mayo tennis player.

He's won 24 grand slams.

He's in a glittering career.

Novak Djokovic.

You've been through so many injuries, losses.

Oh, he's hurt himself.

What has Novak Djokovic done?

What goes through your mind when you lose?

I just want to be left alone.

What has it taken to become Novak Djokovic?

It's a consistent practice.

It's prayer work, mindfulness, meditation, conscious breathing.

It requires more responsibility from you on a daily basis to prepare yourself for the biggest battle.

When did you first become aware of that feeling of not being enough?

I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me.

Do you feel like in your career, you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

When you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement.

I'm 38 this year.

How far can I go?

How long can I push my own limits?

The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty.

He won.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world.

Thanks to each and every one of you who come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.

Now, this is an incredible statistic that I'm sharing for the first time.

Thanks to you, we are now creating 500 million views every month.

Not every year, every month.

And I'm so grateful that you're part of this community.

Today, I get to welcome back a guest who has been a big part of making that possible for me.

I'm grateful to him.

I'm indebted to him because he believed in the mission of On Purpose even before many people did, or any people did.

Before this podcast was even out, he allowed me the gracious kindness to go and interview him and release as the second episode of all time.

Welcoming back to On Purpose, I'm so excited to have my friend, the incredible human, Novak Djokovic.

Novak.

Thank you, Jay.

You are.

I mean, do you know what?

I'm so grateful to have you back.

And my heart is so full because you were one of those rare people that had seen one of my first ever videos.

We'd reached out.

We'd connected.

We were talking a lot at the time.

You were going through a really fascinating place in your career.

You were recovering from an injury.

Right.

It was a different mindset.

You were just on the cusp of becoming the greatest of all time.

And you took a chance on me in so many ways.

And I'm eternally indebted and grateful to you for that.

So thank you for coming on then and coming back now.

Jay, thank you.

It's a great pleasure to see you again and to be able to talk to you.

Thank you for kind words in introduction.

And as well, reflecting on our first conversation in 2019, I don't think I took a chance because we talked about it just before we started officially recording.

You know, when you are connected with yourself and with your emotions and when you feel someone deeply and look in someone's eyes and you understand instantly with your instinct, with your intuition, whether this person thinks good or thinks bad or has the right intention, has the heart at the right place.

So I could see that from the first moment with you.

And that's where I felt the connection.

And even though we haven't seen each other for a few years, you know, I'm just so glad that we're able to connect now.

And you led me through the list of all the guests that you had in the last almost 300 episodes in the last five years.

And I couldn't be happier for you and for your wife and for your entire team.

Amazing.

Thank you, man.

And you gave me my first Wimbledon experience.

I got to see you play on Centre Court.

How was that?

It was amazing.

I mean, are you kidding me?

It was like, and you crushed, you won, obviously.

But it was just such a brilliant experience to see you play after getting to understand your psychology.

And I think that's what I've respected about you over time, that you've really worked hard on your internal game as much as your external game.

And I think you're one of those few rare athletes that have raised the consciousness by working on your own consciousness.

So today I want to dive deep into that.

And I want to dive right in.

I wanted to start by asking you, like, what has it taken to become Novak Djokovic?

Like, what has it actually taken to become you internally?

You know, you mentioned that I took a lot of the time and attention to dedicate myself to the internal work.

And, you know, I've been blessed and really lucky in a certain way to be surrounded with certain people at the very early stages of my career and my life that have directed me into this direction of self-care, of holistic approach, of multidisciplinary approach to the preparation, to the prevention, to the recovery, both physical, mental, emotional.

And at that time, because I was so young, I didn't understand that.

And it didn't need to be explained to me in depth at that point.

And I trusted, you know, my tennis mother, as I like to call her, she passed away 13 years ago, but she was the one that really introduced this holistic concept to me.

You know, we were, I was going, you know, obviously to school and then I was only nine years old and nine, 10.

And I was training with her maybe two or three times a week individually, tennis.

And then I would have group sessions and my parents were, you know, were trusting her enough to allow her to participate directly into my upbringing, basically.

So she also educated me off the tennis court as well.

So she took me very often, at least two times per week to her house where we would look at the tapes of all the greats, both male and female tennis players.

That's where my impersonation started.

You know, people, you know, still to this day ask me, you know, when are you going to do the imitations, impersonations?

And, you know, I haven't done it.

I've done it early in my career and it was fun.

It was viral and people liked it.

And then I received a little bit of an evil looks in the locker room and I kind of felt like, you know, maybe I'm stepping over the line.

So that's why I stopped.

But that's where it started.

And I was like, I was really trying to adapt all of the great things that I could see.

And I have a kind of a photogenic memory and I'm a very visual person.

And that was something that was kind of expected.

That is kind of common as well.

What you do with kids, you know, or with young athletes, right?

You watch videotapes, you try to analyze, try to talk.

But then she had me listen to classical music and she said, it's very important that you do that almost on a daily basis.

Listen to classical music while you are writing your journal, while you are, you know, preparing for bed or any time of the day, but particularly those times.

And, you know, I liked it.

I didn't understand the purpose of it, but, you know, I liked it.

And so we would look at the tapes and we'd listen to this music and then we would read poetry and then we would do a visualization practice.

At that time, it was not presented to me as such, but she would just say in a very simple way that would be understood by a boy, a 10 year old boy, just close your eyes and think about how you want to play tennis and think about when you're, you're happiest.

And so it started at the very early age and I'm so eternally grateful to her for instilling this in me and teaching me, you know, how to see life basically and understand that tennis is not as an individual sport.

Of course, it's also different because you don't have anyone to replace you if something goes bad, you know, during the match, you have to figure out a way.

So I think it requires more responsibility from you on a daily basis to prepare yourself for a biggest battle internally and also externally, of course, with your opponent and with everything that is happening around.

But, you know, so it taught me to really understand that tennis is not only about hitting a tennis ball over the net and counting score and dreaming about these achievements and winning Wimbledon as our holy grail of tennis, but it's, it's more than that.

And I can use tennis as a platform to evolve into a better human being.

At that point, I didn't understand that.

But then as I was growing older and becoming more mature, I started to understand the importance of doing all of these practices.

And I started to expand on each of these topics that, that I was going through with her.

And then, you know, I started going into yoga.

I started going into the movement, into Christianity or to a Christian.

I'm very proud of my religion, but at the same time, I am very open to, you know, embrace anything that can teach me, you know, from other religions and from the spirituality as a whole.

So, so I'm very curious by nature.

So I was really always looking for new ways to improve myself and improve my life on this planet, you know, and I was very lucky to be basically have that space also from my parents.

It's a kind of a self-discovery through the self-care through tennis really consumed most of my life.

I mean, still does not to that extent, of course.

I mean, I have two kids, I have family and other businesses and other things that interest me.

So I'm, you know, I'm balancing right now between tennis and the other stuff.

And I'm kind of making that transition slowly.

You know, I still play professional tennis and I still experience my worst self on the court and my best self.

And so going back to the comment at the beginning where you said, you know, you're one of the athletes that really have immersed himself into the spirituality, into understanding the holistic approach and so forth and the mental health.

I would say yes, but I'm still surprising and shocking myself on how much I actually need to still work on that.

And I still, quote unquote, don't know enough about that world.

And it was really hard for me to accept that.

You know, I thought, you know, since 10, I basically started working on that and growing the foundation.

But it has evolved and has transformed so much for me in terms of how I see myself, how I see the world.

And I thought, you know, maybe when I was at the peak of my career and, you know, I felt like I'm unbeatable and I feel like I could do anything, you know, I kind of walking on the water.

We all experience that in our own lives in a certain way and it's a great feeling.

But then the ego takes you places where it's hard to come back from.

And maybe you shouldn't come back from that.

Maybe you're trying to find the balance, find the optimal measure that really works for you.

But it took me time to really accept the fact that what I have learned, what I have mastered and what I'm doing on a daily basis for the last 20 years or more is not necessarily a guarantee that I'll always find a way and that will always work for me in this particular time of my life and circumstances that I'm facing.

So that's a huge revelation for me because, and I'm still trying to get a grasp on it and understand all of these factors that are in play that are challenging me on a daily basis.

And when I talk from this perspective, it's a beautiful journey that I'm trying to embrace.

But when you are immersed in the dark moment, it's kind of hard to really get out of that.

Yeah, no, I love what you're saying because in the Gita, the ancient text of India, it's spoken on a battlefield.

And the idea is that you're always on a battlefield.

And as you said, on the battlefield, you see the best of yourself and the worst of yourself.

And often people said that to me when I moved to LA, everyone's like, why do you want to be in LA?

There's so much materialism.

There's so much, you know, illusion here.

And I said, well, actually, I feel like I'm on the battlefield here.

So I see the best of myself and I see the worst of myself.

And the worst of myself reminds me to keep going and to keep working on myself.

And the best of myself allows me to share my message with the biggest megaphone in the world.

And so it's that dichotomy of actually when you're looking for spiritual growth, you want to be in a place that reminds you of your weaknesses as much as your strength.

Because if you are only reminded of your strength, you just have your ego.

And if you were only reminded of your weaknesses, well, then you would be depressed or disheartened.

I can instantly see the mistake when I actually say it's my coach's fault or it's my physio's fault or my fitness coach's fault or it's whoever's fault for me losing a match or me playing this way.

So I always remind myself, hey, take the responsibility in your hands.

Take the means in your hands.

You are in control of your life.

I really would love my children to be able to be okay with being bored because that's the time when you're actually most creative or that's the time when you can manage your thoughts and everything that you have been suppressing by distracting yourself with phone, with whatever it is.

You cannot convince me that there is a single person in this planet, even the monk in Tibet that is meditating 24-7 or an Orthodox Christian priest in a holy island in Greece that is 24-7 praying that is not experiencing some negative thoughts.

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Do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

Yes, and more than that.

And at the same time, I still want to do more.

And I know that that comes in a big part from a good place, meaning from a place of purpose, happiness, inspiration, motivation, love for the sport, passion for the sport, passion to make people happy when they watch me.

If I'm doing that and I have a feeling that I am, by still actively being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career, active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing tennis and inspiring younger generations.

That's something that comes from a good place.

But what comes from maybe, let's say, not necessarily a bad place, but less of a good place, I have identified that as well, is my feeling of not being enough.

And that goes back to my very, very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with my father and not being, not doing enough, not being good enough, et cetera, et cetera.

So now that I'm talking about it, I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me.

And it's kind of the battle that I also go through often because a lot of people, even closest people in my life, ask me, you know, what more do you want?

You know, you have achieved everything.

What do you want?

Why do you keep going?

And I tell them the good part that I told you, that I still really strongly feel it's inside of me.

And I feel like as long as I have the capacity or ability to compete for the biggest titles in my sport, I want to keep going.

And also, partly the part that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going is to test my limits mentally and physically.

Because when I was starting to break through into professional tennis, I remember when you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement.

Like after 30, you know, that's it pretty much.

Even though there were some exceptions like Jimmy Connors, the legend of our game.

He played, I think, semifinals or finals of US Open when he was 40 and, you know, still, still, you know, dominating the tour.

However, so there were very, but very few exceptions.

Nowadays, it's different.

Why?

Because I think the care for the body has improved so much.

I mean, now, not only top 10 or 15 guys or girls on the tour have like multiple people in their squad to take care of them.

You have top 50 people that are taking care of them.

It's due to the improvement, of course, of the conditions for the players.

And, you know, we earn more across the board.

So it gives you, it allows you to hire more people that would take care of your body.

And I think that it's also a kind of a curiosity from my side.

How far can I go?

You know, I'm 38 this year.

You know, how long can I push my own limits?

And I don't feel like I do have limits.

And I feel like the limits are normally constructs in our mind.

I've seen the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other day.

And then he talked about, you know, he's, by a lot of people's opinion, very extreme.

But, you know, he dedicated his own entire life to getting the data and understanding what are the best conditions for the longest living life that he can have for himself, which I think it's something that is admirable.

And, you know, I give him huge credit for that.

And I understand because as a professional athlete, you know, the care for your body and your mind and the devotion to the daily habits is so tough because when you want to change a certain habit, science says it takes at least 21 days, right, for the brain to start growing, you know, new neurons that are reprogramming.

But if you don't have the right environment, that's going to be very, very challenging.

So that was also one of the things that I wanted to reflect on.

And your question is the environment is the one that can be very stimulative to you.

It can be really supportive or it can be pulling you down.

So it's super important, even though we always encourage ourselves to be independent in terms of what we do, what we eat, how we sleep, you know, how we lead our lives and what we do and how we can live the best version of our lives possible.

But at the same time, we are social beings.

We are very tribal beings.

And even if it's a smallest community, we still want to belong to that community.

We still want this community to support us, even if it's one person or two.

But it's super important in the end of the day because, you know, making tough choices, these are tough choices because society, when you go out there, you know, super majority of the places where you go to eat or people that you see, it's a kind of a vicious cycle and they lead their life in a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide or correspond to your choices that you want to make, the new choices or maybe the new changes.

So it's really hard, you know what I mean?

Living in the big city and deciding you want to go through a transformational journey on a daily basis, we're being exposed to something that is contrary to what you're trying to achieve.

I feel like it's reinventing yourself constantly.

You know, for me, I've had this kind of upbringing, had the great foundation and, you know, I've achieved incredible things.

I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion.

And that was my dream.

I achieved that dream within two days.

I won Wimbledon and at the same day became number one in the world in 2011.

In front of my family, in front of president of Serbia who was there.

I mean, it was with a welcoming of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back.

It's just, you know, once in a lifetime type of experience.

And when you do something for the first time, obviously that big, it's just like you're flying to the moon.

I mean, you're not, it's a kind of an out-of-body experience.

But then I felt like I had to set new goals.

And because I was, you know, at the time, 2011, I was 23 years old, 24.

So, okay, what do I do next?

You know, I feel like I'm at, you know, peak of my powers.

And I want to, so then I want to win multiple slams.

Then I want to win all slams at once.

Then I want to win gold medal for my country.

Then I want to make history and so forth, so forth.

So I think goal-oriented mind, particularly in sports, but also in business or anything, really, I think is super important because the clarity in, from my experience, is something that is essential to have also peace of mind and to have a calm heart that you know what you're doing and that you set your goals, your short-term goals, your long-term goals, and you know exactly the strategy that you need to implement to achieve them.

And you surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but also people who are telling you what you don't want to hear, you know, giving you constructive criticism or maybe giving you non-constructive criticism and then putting you very down.

But that's also part of the journey.

It's also learning how to get up like a phoenix and rise and try to develop a thick skin.

So to say, so it's, it's a constant process.

Really, I don't see myself fully satisfied if that's maybe a shorter answer because I have that part of me, which is like, you know, I think I can still do more, but I'm, the other side of me is like, of course I'm fully, I'm happy and I'm proud.

And in a way I can't wait one day for me to reflect on everything.

But while I'm steering my active career, I don't have time.

Tennis has a longest season of all sports, January, starts January, ends almost end of November.

And of course I earned my right in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play.

So that's what I'm doing.

I'm not playing as much.

I'm focusing on the big ones.

And I'm trying to incorporate all of these other things inside of my career and basically expand the platform and use my voice for other things than just the tennis court.

And I'm, you know, super blessed to be in a position that I am.

But as I said, it's a constant journey and process.

Yeah, I really appreciate you being honest about your experience with your father, because I think that pretty much anyone who goes off to do something successful externally, all of us and everyone was channeling some sort of internal inadequacy or an internal feeling of not being enough, as you said.

And I wanted to ask, when did you first become aware of that, that you had that feeling of not being enough?

And how have you helped that evolve in the healthiest way possible?

What has been that journey of almost having to live with it because it's there, but not letting it be your guiding light?

Well, you're right.

It makes sense because I think if you use it as the right fuel, it can actually serve as a great motivating factor, right?

It can push you, it can, you know, stimulate you to extract the most amount of necessary energy on a daily basis to achieve your goals and to basically live your dream.

I think for me, it started really as something that was inevitable as a part of the environment that I was in.

I touched upon that a little bit in our conversation five, six years ago, my upbringing with several wars and sanctions and embargo and poverty and everything.

So, you know, from a very young age, I was basically forced to mature very quickly because I'm the oldest of the three brothers.

I have two younger brothers.

So as an oldest son to my father, I was basically kind of in a position where I had to be informed very early on, particularly the age of 11, 12, when we had that bombing and the war and sanctions that stayed that we are in as a family or as people of my country, the situation, the circumstances, my father had to bring it forward to me in a very clear and mature way.

So, you know, one of the most impactful moments of my upbringing and my childhood is when he brought 10 Deutschmarks and I've said this story many times, which is equivalent to $10 and he said, this is all we got for our family of five is living in a super small apartment.

That's where it hit me.

It was like, okay, now I have to take the means in my hands as a 12-year-old boy in whatever way I can, at least what I can do is support my mother, maybe from some of the burden that she has during the day of taking care of my younger brothers.

And that's where it also hit me that not having success is not an option.

Like I have to succeed.

It's basically a matter of existence, a survival of my family.

So I think it started there.

And then over the years, it has obviously transformed or evolved into different kind of form.

But I think that and also my relationship with my father, oftentimes because of maybe lack of patience of my father or people around, because everyone saw that I have a talent.

I was coming from Serbia that had no tennis tradition, no tennis culture.

We are a nation of a team sports.

We are definitely a sporting nation.

We love sports, but team sports.

And at that point during the 90s, it was about survival.

People were watching sports, but there was not much support for the sports.

It was particularly not tennis, a very expensive sport at the time.

I chose the most difficult sport for my parents in the most difficult time for our nation and for my family.

So oftentimes I wouldn't travel because we didn't have money.

And then, you know, obviously, as you can imagine, Tennis Federation didn't have, you know, money to support me.

So my father had to go and beg.

And then he was also borrowing money from, unfortunately, even some criminals at the time during 90s.

And then they would, you know, they would tell him it's a funny story right now, but at the time it wasn't funny, particularly for him.

But, you know, he would go and he said, first time I was going to go to United States to play, I was 15 years old, I was going to play like big junior events here, like Prince Cup and Orange Bowl.

They're the biggest ones under 16 and under 18.

And also, more importantly, I was going with my father, hopefully, to get the sponsorship or, you know, get recruited by one of the big agencies, IMGs or whatever.

So he went for us for money because we didn't have.

So he went to us for $5,000.

And so these criminal people that you could borrow money from because banks obviously would not give it to you.

And then they said, you know, he asked them, you know, are you, how much are you in rush?

And he's like, listen, I'm asking this money from you because of my son.

He's playing tennis.

We're going in America.

You know, I'll return this money within whatever they agreed on, one or two months, whatever it is, three months, he says interest rate was 15%, but because you are in rush, it's 25.

So my father was like, okay, you know, I'll take it because I have no other option.

So, and I can only imagine the stress that he was going through and trying to return this money where people were really car chasing him, shootings in our capital town, stuff that my father went through, you know, to, to really not only survive himself, but to actually allow all of us to live and protect us and to allow me to live my dream and to play the most expensive sport at the time for my country is something that I'm eternally indebted.

I cannot, there's no money or there's nothing that can return the favor, so to say.

So of course, my father's always my, my hero for that and my champion, but, you know, feeling of not enough because of that stress and what things that he was going through.

And then it was hard because he was giving me also hard time if I wouldn't play well.

And it's like, and then I understood, but at the same time, I was afraid I knew what I have to do, but you know, it's hard for me to deliver it when you need, it's like, okay, you need to win no matter what type of situation.

He wasn't telling me that, but that's how it felt.

And it felt like that for years.

So that's why I say that the success that I have achieved is not only due to my father or my parents or myself, it's also the divine higher force.

I strongly believe that there was an intervention and there still is, there's higher forces in power that were helping me in some of the most difficult moments in my family as well.

I am a man of faith and I really truly believe in God and the higher spiritual force that intervenes in the most difficult moments.

If you open your heart, if you pray, and if you believe in it.

So I felt it on my own skin.

Jay, to be honest, I really don't know how I won certain matches.

I cannot explain it.

Even with my team, after I would finish a Grand Slam final against Roger Federer in 2019, Wimbledon, when he was a far better player, I saved some match points and I came off the court.

All stats were going his way.

I won the match.

And I just said, you know, and I wasn't playing well.

I wasn't feeling well on the court.

And I was just like struggling and scrambling and trying to stay out there, stay alive.

And I won in the end in one of the most epic finals in history of tennis.

And then, you know, I told to my parents and my family and my team and said, and my wife, I said, I don't know how I won this match.

I have no idea.

At the same time, I do know deep inside that there's that connection happening and that there's also that help.

So there's a mix of things.

It's really hard to explain.

Sometimes there's this divine power that really, if you allow it, if you believe it, that really helps you come out of trouble and achieve things.

What has been your point of connection or practice with that higher power that keeps you connected?

What's been that for you?

There's so many different traditions and different methods.

What's been the method for you that you find, especially in those moments that you're able to tap in, because I find that if you're able to tap in in really difficult times, it means you're doing something in good times because it doesn't just suddenly turn on when you need it.

So what has been your particular practice, method, system or theory that's kept you connected?

You hit the nail with that one.

It's a consistent practice.

So it's prayer work, mindfulness, meditation, conscious breathing, visualization, presence, basically many other things as well that just NLP or there's a lot of different techniques that I have been practicing and trialing always with myself before I would recommend it to someone else. And over the years, I've developed my own formula that changes depending on the feeling,

depending on whether I'm on the court, whether I'm at home, practice, whatever it is that I'm doing.

But I try to do it when nobody's watching.

And sometimes I verbalize things.

Sometimes I don't.

Sometimes I write things down.

Sometimes I just internalize.

It just depends.

But I think most importantly in the end is that you are doing something.

I'm actually reading this book.

One of the books that I'm reading currently is, you know, The Power of Surrendering and Letting Go.

It is an amazing book for me at the moment because of my upbringing, because of my character and because of my life story, it's hard for me to let go.

It's hard for me to surrender unless it's to the higher power.

But I'm still working on how to surrender and let go of certain things in a relationship with close ones or my relationship with tennis or, you know, if I lose a match or a tournament, if I go through a crisis period, you know, how to not hold something that pulls me down or regret or, you know, it's a constant work.

But I feel like if you devote the time on a daily basis, whatever works for you, you had some of the most amazing guests on your show that talked about, you know, from neuroscientists to doctors, nutritionists, and talked about the healthy habits.

So I don't want to be talking as them as I'm not an expert, but in my fields or so to say in my own life and experience, I feel like I'm an expert because I have tried and developed so many different things over the last 30 years and, and I know what works and what doesn't in a way, but going back to the very beginning of the conversation, it's not again a guarantee that it will keep on working for the rest of my life.

But I know what will is my dedicated time in a day to this practice, mental practice, physical practice, of course, activity, practice that I'm doing in the gym outside and tennis court, or when I'm not training, I still do stuff, still do some yoga practice.

I still do stretching.

I still do breathing.

I still, I love the Qigong and the Chinese traditional medicine or Chinese tradition practices.

I think they're super good and important that you can do even in your chair.

There's always, there's ways, and it's incredible nowadays in internet.

And I mean, it is access to incredible things.

All it takes is a willpower to do it and the desire to say, okay, I'm consciously making this decision to change my life for better.

And I'm going to start with small steps, super important.

It's hard.

You have so much judgment in this society, in this world, right?

It's really hard for people.

As we talked about the environment, as much as effort you're putting in, and then you come with your friends or whatever, with your family members, and then they start to judge you because you're starting to act weird because you're not normal.

You're not conforming to the norms of the society, whatever they are, because it's quite relative.

You know, we're all different, but you know, the norms of society are not really healthy ones.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be where we are as a world ecosystem as a whole and as people and what we are doing to our planet, et cetera.

There's a lot of awakening happening, and it's great to see that change, but it's not easy for people.

And I understand that.

And it's okay not to feel okay.

We heard that many times as well.

And sometimes, as I said, accepting and embracing for me and letting go of the fact that I cannot find a solution to something that happens in my brain, in my mind is also fine.

Of being in a dark place for as long as it requires is also a humane thing.

It's also part of our life.

I can see there's also a narrative that I don't really necessarily like or support in our, let's say, wellness, mindfulness space, well-being space, where it's presented by certain people in such a way that you can only think positive thoughts and there's no room for negative thoughts that, you know, every picture or video they post online is smiling, it's great life and so forth.

I mean, that's not possible, right?

I mean, you cannot convince me that there's a single person in this planet, even the monk in Tibet that is meditating 24-7 or an Orthodox Christian priest in a holy island in Greece that is 24-7 praying, you know, peace isolated in the cave that is not experiencing some negative thoughts.

And I always go back to what one of my friends told me that he's also a mental coach and I've worked with him for years and one of his teachers is Zen Buddhism teachers and he goes to the temple in France often to his teacher and he asked him in one of the first times that he was there doing retreats and spending time at the temple, he says, how are you so calm, you know, how is it that nothing really revels you or unsettles you?

Like you're always so serene and you don't have any negative thoughts.

And he said, the answer from the teacher is that he says, it's not true.

He says, I probably have more negative thoughts and more challenging thoughts and emotions than you have.

The difference between you and me is my training and my ability to not stay in that state and in that emotion for a long time.

So I stay in it for seconds and you stay in it for who knows, right?

So I think there's true wisdom in that and it's all about practice.

Everything.

I mean, brain is a muscle like any other.

Even consciousness that comes naturally to us.

I mean, we are conscious spiritual beings.

We are souls on this planet, in this body.

But in order for us to connect with our true self, we need to go through these layers, the constructs of the society that has developed us in a way has shaped us.

And that requires practice on a daily basis.

And that's not easy.

Look, it's not easy not switching on your phone or your TV the first thing in the morning, but doing something that is maybe not as healthy, but being devoted to that practice or, you know, during the day, having that little one, two, five, 10, 20 minute rest time and comprehension time.

It's not easy to do that, especially for people that didn't develop that kind of habit.

It doesn't come naturally.

I mean, my, even though I don't like giving advice as we talked about it, but I like to share something that works as a suggestion, something that works extremely well for me.

And then, and this is crazy that even in the 21st century, we are even talking about this as a hack.

It should be like an everyday thing that it's a natural, most natural thing is to spend time in nature.

Listen to the birds chirping, listen to the wind, feel the wind, feel the, I mean, if you're by seaside or ocean side, walk by the water or any water or a pond or lake, or just be without a phone and in nature, let the nature do its job and heal you.

And there's so much more power to that than we actually think.

And I felt like in the darkest moments when I really don't want to do any of these techniques or any of the time indoors, I just go out and I just, I just go out and preferably walk uphill.

Because I feel like when you walk uphill, your heart rate raises obviously.

And because of that effort, you're even more present.

So even less time for your thoughts to consume you.

So you're like fully present.

And then when you get to a certain point high at the top, you feel good about yourself because you've done something, you're in the nature, you're dedicated time to yourself.

So I feel like that's super powerful and it's oftentimes very underestimated.

The reason why I love hearing about your practice is just because I think, I think an athlete's mind is one of the most unique places on earth because when you're dealing with extremes every day and every week and both extremes of being number one and then losing a game and you know, everything that goes on, the toolkit you have is one of the most versatile toolkits.

And that's why I asked that question was just to understand what you do.

I was going to ask you like, I feel like one of the most challenging things, and you probably remember this, when you are the new kid on the block and you're playing all the legends and today you're the legend and you're playing the new kids on the block. And it must be such a fascinating experience to go through. And when you talk about the power of letting go and the power of surrender, I wanted you to talk to us about that. Like, what did it feel like when you were the new kid on the block and you were playing your legends that you looked up to and now you're the legend, you're the GOAT, you're the number one playing the new kids on the block? Like,

what does that mentally look like?

It's a completely different feeling, obviously, and different perspective. I mean, when you're a teenager coming up and then, you know, you're in a dreamland when you are just sharing a locker room with the legends of the game or the guys that you look up to, your biggest rivals, they're becoming your biggest rivals later on. But at that point, they're heroes. They're like, my gosh, I mean, these guys, I've seen them on the TV and now I'm here.

Who is that for you at that time?

I mean, look, my idol growing up was Pete Sampras. And even though Pete's game and my game are quite different, I don't know, I love his demeanor. I love his ability to cope with the pressure and how he was coming up with the best tennis when it mattered the most. And that was a kind of a sign of a greatest champion. I mean, he was holding a record for most slams and

weeks number one, et cetera, for a long time until Roger came and Rafa, of course, and then, of course, paved the way. And then, you know, looking up to them as well, even Nadal is only a year older than me, but he made a breakthrough earlier than I did. It's already for a couple of years, he was on the tour when I started coming in and he was already number two in the world, multiple slam winner and et cetera. So of course it was kind of a surreal experience for me. And I tried to enjoy it and embrace it. But at the same time, I felt like, okay,

it's great to share the court with these guys, but I want to beat them. You know, I want to get the biggest titles. I want to be number one. I want to dominate. So I think that the first kind of that wave that I was riding on helped me to win my first slam when I was 19 in Australia, Australian Open in 2008. And then I won a couple of big tournaments and so forth. I reached the number two in the world, but, you know, I still wasn't number one. And then I had a three-year

period. I didn't win a slam. I was winning some big tournaments, but I couldn't win a slam.

These two guys were beating me in every big match, Feather and Nadal. I changed rackets, you know, team members. I did everything I can to kind of find the right formula.

And I was struggling physically as well. I wasn't, you know, that's where I actually, I had my transformative journey nutrition wise, where I took out the gluten and dairy products and refined sugar. Up to that point, I was eating all of these things thinking, well, I'm eating relatively healthy. I mean, relatively healthy. I thought, you know, that's what I know. But then, you know, when I started working with this, with this doctor and he, he pointed out, you know, you have strong gluten intolerance messes up with your gut. You got to take that out. You got to take out the dairy product because that creates a lot of inflammation in your body. You might be able to

eat it later on, but not now. And refined sugar, absolutely no. So that was a huge change, but I committed to it. And then I felt that affected me. In fact, my mental clarity, my recovery was much better.

My decision-making on the court was better, etc. So that helped a lot. And of course, mentally as well, I was working on certain programs that I had from, you know, that were kind of not really very positive and not, not really serving the purpose on the court of winning a match. So that year, 2010, 2011 is when I experienced a huge boost of energy and transformation. And that changed an unbeaten run of 40 plus matches and had three slams and became number one and had won the best

season of my life. And that's where everything started going in the, in the upwards direction for me. And learning also from these guys and the matches that we've played against each other was something that was extremely important for me at the time. I was of course, trying to consume as much as I can, this energy of the center court and everything. And it was overwhelming at times, but I was also very thorough in my analysis of the matches afterwards, even though I don't

necessarily like to watch matches that I lost, but you know, Kobe Bryant used to talk about this a lot.

And I, when I was talking to him personally about that, he would, cause I told him, Kobe, I really don't like, you know, watching myself perform bad or when I lost. And it just gives me this cramps in my stomach and I don't like it. And he said, even if it's just specific intervals of the match that you lost, that you want to watch, that you definitely look at that and you need to analyze that. And you need to go through that cramping feeling because that's where you learn

from those, those mistakes. And that's where you have an opportunity to rectify that for the next, next tournament or next match and so forth. So that helped a lot. And I do watch the matches that I lost and highlights and certain parts, but I never watch the last point. I don't want to watch the point where my opponent, you know, fist bumps and raises his hands. I just, maybe it's, I don't know, it's a superstition or not, but, but it's just some, some kind of a feeling that I have. But yeah, I just, you know, those rivalries really shaped me into the person I am, into the

player that I am and definitely grateful for, for everything that I experienced with these guys.

And now the flip, now when you're playing the younger players.

Well, now the flip is obviously an interesting experience for me because when Fedor and Nadal and Murray, my biggest rivals retired, actually most recently, uh, in the, in the last year or two, part of me left with them. And I, and I really feel that because, and I thought, well, it's not going to be difficult for me to kind of shift my attention in terms of who are my principal rivals on the tour from them to someone else. But you know, it is, it is tough because, you know,

I'm used to these names, these guys, these faces for 20 years, and then new faces come in and, and it's normal. Uh, how can I say evolution of our sport? And it's normal that you have new generations that are kind of come in and dominate the tour. I'm experiencing something I have never experienced before, but that's, that's also fine. You know, I'm trying to embrace this journey and, but also I think what is very important to me personally, and what I have expressed directly to all of my

basically rivals currently today, the young guys who are going to be the carriers of the tennis for the next decade is that I'm here for them to share my experience, even though it's difficult because we're facing each other, but I still feel that in a way, that's also my role. It's also my responsibility. And it's also a great opportunity for me to do that because I really, it really fills my heart with joy that I'm able to convey my experiences, my knowledge, whatever that I can

from my journey to a new generations, because naturally the tennis should get better. And we all want tennis to get better, to be better. And I want somebody to break my record in the future, all of the records. Why not? I mean, this is how it should be. If I can contribute in a way where I can say, Hey, aside of the barriers that we created in a rivalry, if you need help with, I don't know, public relations, if it's, you know, marketing, if it's dealing with the outside world as

well, that is very difficult dealing with anxiety. We all have that, you know, we all know how it is to feel alone. You let yourself down or you let other people down. Mental challenges in a high level professional sport are a hundred percent present with everyone. It's just a matter of how you deal with it, who you have in your support system that can help you. So I feel like it was great when I was able as a kid to ask some of the guys who were playing at the top level, you know,

some of the questions that were interesting me and that just hearing from them two or three sentences of how they think that they were dealing with it and how that affected them was huge to me.

Even if you heard it from someone else, but just hearing it from them, it just has this resonant power and impact. And it did help me a lot. I didn't have it from my top rivals at the time, but I had it from some guys like Ivan Ljubicic, for example, who was, you know, fellow Croatian tennis player. And he was a number three or four in the world at that point. And then I was breaking through as a teenager and we shared the same tennis coach. He influenced me in a positive way to like change the racket or string pattern or strings and all of these small details that you

might not think that are maybe relevant or, but you hear them, you hear it from them. And then you're like, okay, now I'm ready to make the decision because I trust what he tells me. Cause you know, he's a testament to what he's preaching basically.

Yeah. It's so interesting because I love that you offered that. I was talking to Carmelo Anthony recently, the basketball player from the Knicks and, you know, very successful Hall of Famer. And he was telling me that in basketball, he doesn't find the young players being that open to coaching and guidance from the senior players. How do you find it in tennis? Is it more open? Is there, did you get people coming back and saying, Novak, I have loads of questions for you?

Yeah. I would agree with that, with Carmelo, because also in tennis, because it's an individual sport as well, it makes it even more isolated solitude sports where you are focused on your team and you create your own environment community and you're like excluding everything else, which is understandable, you know, to some point, contrary to let's say basketball, we, we do share the locker room. So we sitting next to each other or warming up next to each other, playing finals for the biggest tournament, which is crazy to think about it, you know, whereas, you know,

obviously the basketball or football soccer, you know, these guys, they don't see each other until they actually on the court. We, you know, look at each other, send each other looks, our team members send each other looks in the locker room and stuff. So the battle starts already there.

So from that point of view, it's kind of hard to expect that they would come and say, hey, look, you know, give me some advice. How can I beat you? But, but that's why I'm saying, like, there's many more other things that can be very helpful, like outside of the court. And yes, there are some young players that are, how can I say, open, more flexible, more curious. And I think it's not, maybe not so much about that, but it's, it's about how shy you are or how courageous you are to

really, you know, break that boundary and not be afraid of coming to me or to someone that you look up to and say, hey, can I ask you a question? You know, more often I would get questions through their team members to my team members to me. And so, and then I would approach them and say, hey, you can, you know, you can talk to me. There's no problem. Yeah. But you know, I don't want to bother you and stuff like this. So yeah, I think, I think it's very nice if you have that exchange, even if it's a short one, because the level of appreciation and respect,

which I think is ultimately the most important thing in sports, you know, yes, we all want to win.

Yes. We all want to be the best. Yes. We all want to make records in history, but

appreciating what your fellow athlete goes through, compassionate, being compassionate and empathizing with him or her and respecting the process is something that is more eternal

in your heart, in your soul, and in the eyes of all the other people than any achievement or any

success. I mean, that's at least how I see it. I love that. I couldn't agree with you more because I always try to remind people that the only person who can truly relate to you is that person. Like your competitors are the only people who can actually relate to what it feels like to be you because your team, they can't fully relate. Of course they can relate. They play tennis and they understand the game, but they don't know what it feels like to be in that locker room before you go on to be at the net when the score is not in your favor. Like even I talk about even in our

industry, like I like to be friends with everyone in my industry and I like to connect with anyone that you genuinely get along with. Because for me, I'm like, you're the only person who understands what it feels like to interview people, to get the public criticism, to have the scrutiny, to be careful about what you're saying to, you know, whatever it may be. And if I'm not friends with you, I have my friends from back home in London who I loved and my best friends, but they don't know what it feels like to do this. And so in this part of my life, there's a difference. I wonder with you,

you've been through, and I want to talk about some really pivotal moments. You've been through so many injuries, losses, all of that. At this point in your career, when you've achieved so much, you've been through so much, what goes through your mind when you lose now?

Answer that, but I just want to reflect on what you said on the industry, because I think it's super important. And that's the mentality, the right kind of mentality and the philosophy of instead of division, it's unity, it's collaboration, it's understanding, it's support, it's respect, it's appreciation, it's coming together, it's growing industry together.

Understanding that you're all, yes, you are competitors. I mean, even in your industry, you compete for the audience and so forth. And there's a lot of, you know, podcasts out there.

And it's understandable to a certain point that, you know, there are certain formulas that you developed and tools that you want to keep to yourself, which is 100% understandable. But at the same time, overall, in a general perspective of things, we are part of the same industry, we need to grow, we need to grow this awareness. So that's how I also see it for tennis. You know, in sports, even more so competition and the kind of a fierce mentality is so prominent to the point

where, like, for example, in basketball, I love basketball, you know, Serbia is a country of basketball is our, you know, national sport number one. And you have intentionally, maybe in a in the midst of a battle, under the rim, fighting for a rebound hurt somebody, and that's somebody you elbowed somebody, okay. And that somebody is down, and you can see him in pain. And you don't come and give him a hand and say, Hey, man, sorry, let's go. I don't see how that exposes your weakness.

Because I think that's in a in the center of everything. It's like, don't show your weakness, don't show your vulnerability, be strong, be tough, whatever. Of course, we have to be tough, be strong, be whatever, be fierce in terms of like wanting to win and finding a way to win.

But that doesn't mean that we can be also human beings that, hey, if I did something to you in a contact sport, like basketball, if it's a foul or something like that, hey, you just give him a hand one second and says, whatever, let's go, let's keep it going. That doesn't mean that you will not battle in the next minute again. Yeah.

So that's the part which I don't really understand fully or don't support it. But that's why like, I feel like coming together and really showing that respect, even if it's, you know, before the game and after the game, it really resonates with people. It does send overall a good message.

And I think it improves the sport and brings people more together. Now to, to your question about losing a match, right? That was, yeah. Like at this stage of your career, I feel like

you've obviously, we've talked about it. You're satisfied, you've succeeded. You've come back from like being down on points. Like, and I'm trying to get into your mindset, just where it's at today and, and how it's evolved over time. Like, what does it feel now when you lose, have an early exit?

Like, what does that feel like now compared to before?

As hard as it was before. Yeah. Sometimes there is no rule. Sometimes it takes me an hour, sometimes half a day, sometimes a day, sometimes a week to go over the loss. I mean, it just really depends. But right after the match, you know, I would, if I have to reflect shortly about a match with my team, but I just want to be left alone. Yeah. I just have to go through my process. I don't like the chit chat, the small talk of trying to lift my spirits up right

after the match. I just like, just give me some time. I need to isolate myself, go in my room, go outside, walk, whatever it is, you know, just blow some steam out. And then when I do that, then I'm ready to, you know, talk, socialize and stuff like this. I don't know whether that's something that is good or not in general terms. But that's just me. I feel like it's really hard for me to digest that I lost the match. As I said, sometimes it takes longer, sometimes shorter to get

out of it, but I do need definitely like few hours to not see anybody. Like I hug my kids. If I see my kids, you know, my kids, sometimes within those few hours, they get me and they're like, Betty, we have to do this. You have to take me there and stuff. So kids have that permission to come into my space, but you know, anybody else, I just need some, some time. And I, I just feel like it's sometimes is necessary to have that. And in solitude is not necessarily bad.

And I feel like we all need to learn how to embrace being in, in solitude and being by and enjoy being by ourselves. Doesn't mean that we have to go to total extreme, but it has to be balanced and optimal. But we need to create that time for ourselves because also being bored is good.

You know, being bored, this is something very interesting, you know, that I also see with my, with my kids, like particularly with my son keeps on telling me he's 10. And he's like, daddy, like he just recently told me a few days ago, we were at that, at my parents, uh, place countryside by the lake. And we were alone and he was, we were playing different. We were playing ping pong.

We were doing some, uh, kayaking in the lake. So, and we played some football soccer. So we had a quite active few hours of the first few hours of the day. And then I was doing something else. I don't know what I was doing. And then he come up, comes up to me and he's like, daddy, I'm bored.

And then I had him sit down with me. And then I said, but son, it's okay to be bored sometimes.

First of all, you had a great active morning and you did a lot of things. And second of all, you know, when you're bored, it doesn't mean that you have to instantly take a book or a screen or anything else. You need to also learn how to be with your thoughts.

And if you are not comfortable being bored indoors, go outdoors, sit on a chair and have, have some drink and just look at the sky. And I, and I think that's much easier said than done.

And I, and I, I really would love my, my children to, to be able to be okay with being bored because that's the time when you're actually most creative, or that's the time when you can manage your thoughts and everything that you have been suppressing by distracting yourself with phone, with whatever it is. They don't have, my kids don't have phones. They're 10 and seven.

And, and that's another conversation, but you know, it's, it's a struggle, but it's important.

You know, I think it's super important, particularly for them at this young age to understand and develop a connection with nature, with outdoors, with activity, with all these things. And then it's inevitable, uh, you know, soon it will come a moment where they'll have the screens and well, they're blend into the society's norms. And, but at least I'll be comfortable as a parent that I done what I can to instill some of the foundational things in them that they will appreciate maybe not now, but later on in life. I think also, you know, when I lose a match,

I want to be distracted by some, I want to have my phone. I want to watch something, read something.

I want to, I want to distract myself. And that's one of the bad habits that I have.

So it's, it's a battle for me. And normally how I win this battle is just go outside and I either don't take my phone, I'll leave it. Or if I take it, I'll just, if I'm in the city, I'll just listen to something, listen to Jay Shetty's podcast on purpose, or I would do something, you know, just, or, or normally I would listen to a music, you know, relaxing just to kind of calm myself. I would prefer not listening to anything and just being immersed in whatever is outdoors and trying to, trying to find a park, trying to find anything

natural, you know, and I think that helps a lot, but I do need my time.

Yeah. That's, that's reaffirming for me because if I'm having a tough time, I've always found that being alone, I have to first make sense of how I feel about something before I hear everyone else's feelings because otherwise someone's feeling won't satisfy me. So even if someone said, and I assume that's what you're saying, if someone came up to me and goes, oh, but Jay, but everything's going to be all right. It's like, if I don't feel that, and if I don't believe that, it doesn't matter how many times someone says that to me.

And of course the intention is good for that person, but it's hard for you to see that at a given moment. Correct.

So I agree with that. And I think to the point of distractions, I don't think that necessarily distractions are a hundred percent super negative. And I'll explain. I think that for a lot of people, they need a moment, however that moment lasts to, it looks like they're distracting themselves.

Like when I do it, but what I, what I do is just bringing myself back to that center, whatever that is. Okay. And then I'm ready to do some other practice of breathing or whatever it is, or I can socialize. I can start speaking with people and do other things. So I don't feel it's necessarily bad unless you don't have any control of it, unless it just carries you into hours and hours of playing games or being on social media of being, if it's that, then it's not good.

Yeah. Then it's not good because then you're disrupting your own rhythm.

Well, what you're doing is you're disrupting the pattern. Right.

So instead of being there and then you're just playing the game again in your head and being down on yourself and being negative. Right.

And so you're disrupting that pattern with the distraction. Right.

And then that's a good thing because then you don't get into that spiral.

And it's not like you're checking what people said on the comments about the game. Right.

Right. You're disconnecting from the game.

I'm disconnecting. Well, the thing is that if you're on social media, which I do have a tendency to go to social media as well, like right after, even though I don't want to, but part of me wants to, it's also where I find some short clips of what happened in the match and then kind of like analyze what happened and how I, why I did what I did or whatever, what could I could, could have done better. And then I see, you know, this, obviously there's these shocking headlines like Djokovic is out, you know, he lost. I mean, what a shock early, blah, blah, blah. And then I get pissed off and

then I just switch that off. Right. So I don't even get to the comments or section or anything like that. Then I just leave it for whatever, whatever time. And then what you're doing is you are changing changing that state you're in. Cause if you are really wired in that moment, you are like almost going to burst. It's not good. I mean, how can you have a rational conversation with anybody if you're

in that state? And then normally in that state, if you start making decisions when you're hotheaded, not good as well. I think that these are the, the ways of like, if you can like cool yourself down and then, I mean, a cold shower is something that I also do sometimes when I'm hotheaded that I think also helps with kind of biology. And I feel like physiology just like helps my mind, my brain calm down and then I'm able to address topics that I want to address. It's almost like what it takes to be,

to emotionally regulate. Yeah. And if you go straight into analyzing the game or talking about it, you're actually, your heartbeats going up, you're breathing shallow again, you're replaying the missed shot. And all of a sudden you're just bombarded by all the same emotions again.

And you've got to sometimes just calm that down before you can do that effectively. It makes a lot of sense. Exactly. But what I love hearing, which is what I love about all my favorite athletes, and you're definitely, you know, when I think about my favorite athletes, you're in tennis, Cristiano in soccer, Lewis Hamilton in, in F1, like people sometimes will make fun of Cristiano online for still crying when he loses. I love that. Like as a fan, I love that. Like, I love to see that he's, he's crying after all this time. Like, you know, he's the number one goal scorer in the world. Right. He's, you know, in my opinion, he's achieved everything he possibly

could. He's played amazing for his country, same way as you, but it's like, he's still crying. And the game's not even, it's not the champions league anymore. He cares. Yeah, he cares. Exactly.

He cares. And then I agree with you. I think, well, this is the point that we discussed on particularly men, professional sports. There's no room for vulnerability. And because that shows weakness, weakness exploits you. And when something exploits you, then you are vulnerable to, you know, lose the match or game or whatever it is. I mean, that, that's the narrative.

When you're crying, you are, yeah, you're, you're often regarded as a very weak man.

And I have had the same view for quite a long time, I must say. And I changed that about 10 years ago. My upbringing, there was no room for emotions. That was just like serious. I have to do my job and I have to be successful, no room for error, etc. But it also, you know, comes from, I think my home where I didn't have that relationship where I, when I would cry, I would be, you know, with my father, especially that I would feel safe. I would not feel that. And, and so I had to not cry and be tough.

And then I have to, I kind of close myself, you know, and to the point where I wasn't able to express myself emotionally. I didn't, at the time when I started dating my girlfriend at the time, my wife, you know, it was hard for me to, to kind of express what I feel, even though I'm a very talkative person. I'm very, you know, I like to communicate and I feel like I'm very approachable in that, in that sense. But for a long time, that was, that was a kind of a narrative, particularly in, you know, men's sports, as we talked about it. So I do like that about Cristiano as well,

because in the end of the day, you know, he's giving his heart out on the pitch for his team, for the fans. And that ultimately needs to be respected because the guy at his age, 40, after everything he has achieved, still going, still wants to win in a league that is far weaker than the best leagues in Europe, you know, but he still has this champions mentality and he'll always have it as long as he's playing. So, uh, yeah, absolutely a credit to him for that.

And I do resonate with, with that. And I cried many times after my losses in the locker room, but also on the court, particularly after Olympics, like losses at Olympic games for my country or Davis cup. When I play for my country, that's like even stronger intensity of emotions that you go through because you're not playing for yourself only in that way. I mean, when I play all the tournaments, I always represent my country, but here in this official team competitions or Olympics, it's even more emphasized the importance of your country of wearing those colors, you know,

on your sleeve or in your heart. So when you lose, you're like, you know, you're so down and the whole world collapsed. I'm very happy that I was able to win the golden medal for my country last year in Paris Olympics, because that was a long time dream of mine. And the Olympic games are just so special, you know, every four years, I know LA is the next one, obviously. My wish is to be able to play LA. I mean, hopefully I'll be still, still playing to, to be able to participate.

Yeah. I hope so too. It'd be fun to be able to just watch you locally for one.

For sure.

And we got the soccer world cup coming to America too. So it's an exciting time, but no, it's, I love hearing that as well. Just like when you're playing for yourself, you let yourself down, you let the fans down, but when you're playing for your country, you let the country down and, you know, no one wants to let their country down. No one wants to, you know, everyone wants to represent well. And I think sometimes at a national level, athletes get it really tough when you lose for your country. Yes.

It's, it's one of the hardest feelings because yeah, it's a different emotion. And I think we forget as fans and followers, you forget the human experience. Yeah.

Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, look, we are very blessed as athletes on the highest level to be able to play the sport that we fell in love with because if not all, but super majority of professional athletes play those sports on the highest level, uh, because when they were kids, they wanted to play tennis, basketball, football, whatever, they fell in love and it's a love and passion for the game that got you going. So it's important to state that because, you know, we are for sure fortunate

ones, but at the same time, we feel that through sport, we are able to connect with people and people are able to connect with the virtues that sports and the values that sport represents that help them in their everyday life. I think that's not something that is, has been talked about a lot on how, why is it that our sports are so popular? Why is it that people relate to athletes? It's because of this grit, because of this battle. We all go through internal battle on a daily basis. And in sports,

we can, of course, admire the, the features of, um, an athlete and the skills and the talent and the abilities. But at the same time, we also identify ourselves with those athletes. We feel like, wow, you know, this game or a match, it's in a way, a condensed daily life or a condensed life into an hour, two or three, where you, you start at the beginning, you're even, then you end up,

you know, winning or losing. But in the process or journey of the match and the game, you're going through ups and downs, you're going, and particularly in individual sports, you're going, you mentioned Lewis Hamilton, another great legend. You're going through that battle of, you know, trying to win that inner battle where you go through your doubts, your worries, your fears. So all of these elements are part of everyday life of everyday person. And that's why I feel like people relate to sports.

And they also, they, they, when they go to see sport live, particularly, but also when they watch it on TV, I feel they're able because they, they are so connected to the community of that club or that athlete or whatever it is, they feel like all of their problems stop, at least for those hour, two, three hours that they are watching. And they feel like they can also, when they're watching, I mean, that that's my observation and experience with tennis fans, for example, or, or, I mean, of course,

I've watched basketball and football live as well, or the other fans of the other sports is that that's where they feel like they can free themselves of the emotions and the burdens that are kind of wearing them down. And sometimes it really goes to a, an extreme level where people start really, or swearing and fighting and throwing stuff at the athletes and behaving really bad, like hooligans. And that's obviously a part that I don't support, but I can see that there's a lot of people that are like, that's why, that's why, like after a game, they either feel drained or they

feel energized. They either feel like they've kind of like collected that energy from the stadium, or they feel like they're completely like a deflated balloon because they've, you know, been through crazy intensity of the emotions and they relate, they follow every point and every second of the game. And then they, in the end, of course, if the team loses, it's, it's a big difference than when they win, but it's just that identification that happens that I feel like

it's super strong and why sports are so important for the society and why people regard it as very, something very popular and important for them.

And I'm really glad you're having that conversation because I think it can have, even as a kid, like I grew up playing sport, never, you know, good enough to play any semi-professional, even professional level, but sport created discipline in my life, even as someone who wasn't, you know, that prolific at sport, it created discipline, created teamwork. If you were playing a team sport, created timeliness, created commitment, created showing up. There were so many healthy, valuable, masculine traits as well that were so important. And of course, for women as well. And it's interesting

what you say about it going the toxic side, because I think it was the last Euros of the World Cup.

And there was this statistic about how domestic violence in England goes up if England lose, but it goes up even more if England win because people drink more when they win.

Right.

So, and that's just so shocking that you see that connection too. And that's why I think it's even more important to get these positive messages through sport out, so that we don't have that kind of a statistic because, and that's specifically to do with football, soccer.

Yes, of course.

No, it is a super important, I think. But in football, it's far more extreme than in tennis in terms of the ultra fans and, you know, the kind of like following and being such an ultra devoted fan. I mean, they literally live for that the entire year, which I think is beautiful when you see choreographies of some fans in the basketball games or football games. And it's just, it's art. It's beautiful, you know? And then this energy when thousands and tens of thousands of

people start singing together for their club, I mean, it's, it's incredible feeling. That's why we all love being present to experience that because ultimately human beings love to experience things because that, that fills our life. And, and in sports allow us to do that. They'll allow us to experience some incredible enthusiastic, exhilarating type of, uh, uplifting energy, joy, but it also the sadness or, or anxiousness and stuff. And, and so all of these emotions that you go through,

it's just an incredible school of life in some way, but you're right. You know, it also teaches professional sports, teach a great, great deal of discipline and also the never giving up spirit that I think it's, it's, it's important for people. Uh, cause today in the society, because a lot of people look to, to conform, to be comfortable to, you know, there's always, you know, something that I can do differently. They don't finish things. So it's important to kind of remind yourself to be devoted and not give up and believe that you can, you know, achieve something

that you set yourself up to. And, uh, so yeah, sports, sports definitely send those values and you're right. It's important to always emphasize that. Yeah. One of my favorite stories actually

of that never give up mindset was Vanessa Bryant tells this story after Kobe Bryant tragically passed away. And she said that Kobe played through a lot of games, especially finals when he was injured.

Yeah. And she would ask him and say, why are you playing when you're injured? You should just not play like it's okay. And he would say that if I don't play, there's going to be a fan out there who's saved up to watch this game. And they can only come to one game in their life because it's expensive to get seats and they saved up to watch me play. And if I don't play, they won't see me play.

And so I'm going to play through an injury. And I'm like, when you hear stories like that of athletes doing incredible things, you think, wow, like that's the power. That's the motivation. I was going to ask you, I mean, you've played through and overcome some bad injuries. What's the worst injury that you ever had to overcome to be able to come back at the top?

I had a surgery of my elbow back in 2017. And I've kind of, uh, had that injury for a year and half. And I tried with, I don't normally drink anti-inflammatories. I don't like that those top tablets and cortisol shots or anything like that. I feel like that's only masking the problem. But, you know, sometimes if you really, you know, in tennis, we, we sometimes play five, six days in a row and you have no other option. And if you want to stay alive in the tournament, you have to do it.

So I've done it for like a year or something with playing, uh, under these pills, like every single match to the point where I didn't feel pain anymore. I'm sorry. Actually, I felt the pain,

even if I was taking the full dose of anti-inflammatories. And that's, was the sign for me. Like I have to, you know, operate this. I have to do something different. I made a kind of a little bit of a wow to myself, uh, and a promise that I will not operate myself throughout my career and will not make any surgery. And that was, I felt I let myself down. I cried for days that I accepted to do a surgery, but surgery was done very well.

You cried for days.

Yeah. Because I felt like I let myself down. I said, you know, I wanted to go throughout my entire career without having one surgery, but it happened. And I had an arthroscopic intervention on my knee last year during a match in Roland Garros, actually fourth round. I won in five sets of the four and something hours, but I was, uh, I was winning set and a half comfortably in the last 16 round. And then I felt a click. It was something, it was very weird. And I never had an injury of the knee, luckily, at least that severe. And then, you know, I started to play,

but I could not stand on my leg and I was playing through the pain that I invited a physio and the doctor. And then, you know, he was touching me in this spot where my meniscus is. And I felt, wow. And that's very painful. He's like, what do you want to do? And I said, listen, you know, I want to, I want to give it a shot. I want to try, just give me strongest painkillers you have right now. Cause I'm on the court full stadium. I can't just, I want to try. So that's what he's, they've done. And after 30 minutes, they started kicking in and I was kind of surviving in this

30 minutes. And then the pain went down. The pain was still there, but I went through it and I won the match. And I actually finished the match with pretty good feeling. I still had pain, but it was pretty good feeling. And I was like confident for my quarter finals. It was coming up in two days, but the next day I went for an MRI and I saw I have a ruptured meniscus and basically had to be operated. So I pulled out on the tournament and I did that operation. And the Wimbledon was coming up in three weeks. And then my team was, I still remember that conversation with my team on the

rooftop and on the back of that story that you told me about Vanessa and Kobe, you know, Vanessa was telling Kobe, why do you play? Don't play. Like it's, it's a normal protective advice from a dear person in your life. Same. I got from all of my people, from my family members to my team members. And my, I remember my physio that I'm with for the last 20 years. He told me, yeah, you know, it's normally like four to six weeks and stuff like this, but you know, we had some miraculous recoveries from some athletes, blah, blah, blah. And my, my physio was

sitting on the, on the rooftop of our hotel and all team was there. And he said, I know you do not even think for a second you'll play Wimbledon. Like that's out of the question. Wow. And I didn't say anything. All the team members agreed. I didn't say anything. Actually one thing I said, I said, I understand what you're saying, but please, you know, for my own mental sanity, because it's Wimbledon, because it's my, always been a dream tournament, the most important tournament. Let's just see how

it goes in the next two weeks. Cause I have three weeks of the tournament and I can pull out three, four, five days before the tournament. So I have like two, two and a half weeks to play around.

At that point I was with crutches. So long story short, I've dedicated so much time in a day to recover. And it was like a task for me to prove even the closest people in, in my team and family wrong that I can recover. And it was really a mission and I recovered and I played finals and I lost last year finals in Wimbledon. And then I, a week after that I came to the Paris back again and played Olympics and won a gold medal. So it was the best period of my, of my, uh, 2024 season

is when I actually had a surgery, a post surgery, because something clicked in my head where he triggered me, my physio and said, do not even think. And for me, what I heard is, okay, thank you for giving me the task because now I have a challenge on my hands. All I needed is that. And actually, that's what I need now. I feel like in this phase of my career, when I'm trying to motivate myself and keep going and stuff, I need a challenge. I think athletes in the highest level after so long,

they, they need to feel their challenge. They need to feel that they are playing a game, even though it's our job and everything, but we need to feel like we, somebody is going to say something you want to prove them wrong. Michael Jordan and his last dance was talking about it.

He's like, even if I didn't have anybody in the crowds talking crap to me, but I still picked someone and selected him as an enemy. And just because I needed to create that enemy inside of my head to get me going. So I actually relate to that, even though I don't necessarily always look for enemies in my every match in the crowd, but I had quite an experience with tennis crowds over the years in my career. Oftentimes when I would play with Nadal and Feather, most of the times I would have most of the stadium against me. So it would be challenging, but that's also part of why my mental

toughness is as it is in a kind of a hostile environments played most of my matches and big matches. And I kind of had to find a way to win a match and to use that energy as my fuel and not

have it wear me down. What does that take to do that? Because it sounds like that scrutiny is worse than an injury. What's worse? That kind of hostile environment, hostility or injury?

Look, injury is the biggest enemy or an opponent of an athlete. You can't do your job. You can't play your sport if you're injured, which proves the point of self-care even more of how important it is and how significantly you have to address that and approach that in your daily life as an individual athlete, particularly. But at the same time, a hostile environment is not ideal.

I mean, you always want to be playing where you're celebrated, cheered for, of course, you know, it lifts you up in a tough moments when you're down and just, but I learned in the somehow in the hostile environment to thrive. And I've seen that, you know, with like Kobe did it as well, right?

LeBron, you know, other athletes as well in their respective sports talked about it and football, they experience it a lot.

People can relate to that. Like, I think people always feel, even the average person constantly feels like their work's a hostile environment or wherever. Like what allowed you to use it as fuel consistently over that time to the point where people were cheering when you finally win?

Well, there are a few things. First, I mentioned that already is using that as a fuel to prove somebody wrong. And that requires work mentally to be able to transform or transmute that energy or that cheering that is against you to convince yourself it's for you.

So I was, I was saying this years ago, uh, after I was playing, I was playing feather in one of the Wimbledon finals and they would cheer Roger, Roger all the time, basically. So I've was convincing myself and I managed to convince myself, especially in the second part of the match that they were cheering no, no land or Novak Novak. I was, that's what I was hearing.

Wow. And that's cool.

And then, and then my mind was playing games, but I wasn't allowing it to play games with me that basically was like, what are you talking about? I mean, they're saying Roger and they're saying Novak, but I was like, no, no, no. They're saying Novak, Novak, Novak, Novak. So I was using that as my own force and my own fuel.

I just got chills.

And then, but that's, it is possible. It is possible, but you need to, you need to work on that and convincing yourself in something that is different from the reality that is actually happening, or basically in another words, creating your own reality. Because in the end of that's more philosophical question and spiritual of whether this is all one reality or it's a different, we all experience different forms of reality of what's happening. So creating your own reality and convincing yourself and basically training your subconscious mind that this is exactly what

you want to hear. It is possible, but it takes an effort, but it goes a long way because for everyday person, you know, you can tap into that subconscious mind that basically controls 95% of your 100% daily life while you're awake. You know, 5% is only, I mean, I was shocked and that's science. That's not me saying it's science that is saying that 5% is only conscious mind. 95% is, I mean, I was shocked when I heard that. It's like, how in the world are we then able

to live how we want to live where we are actually on autopilot most of the time. And that explains the multitasking that explains why we can text and drive and drink and speak and do five things at the same time is because of the subconscious. But subconscious is basically reacting to what you are instilling or uploading in that program. So I feel like when I was introduced to that

subconscious mind science, I was, you know, I felt like I've changed myself and my own perspective on things and how I approach life and performance and relationship. And I could see that and I still make mistakes and I still do plenty of mistakes, not on the tennis court or outside and relationship and everything. I'm more conscious and more aware where it's coming from and why I did it.

And then I'm going to keep on doing mistakes, but I'll try to reduce those. And I feel like being in control is something that we all want to be in. Like we want to control our thoughts. We want to control our lives, our partners that we want to, but it's not possible and it shouldn't be the case.

Like you can only control what you can, which is your own process internally. And then how that comes across what I speak to you right now and what you think in your mind and how you hear my words is I can't control that. You know, I can only hope that I am emitting the right kind of energy and vibe to you. And then we are creating something nice. That's what I feel like we all get trapped a lot is like, no, I'm going to prove you the point of what I was saying. And I'm going to tell you why you are

causing this in me and so forth. So putting always a blame to someone else. And I mean, I can feel that with tennis is that I can instantly see the mistake when I actually say it's my coach's fault or it's my physio's fault or my fitness coach's fault or it's whoever's fault for me losing a match or me playing this way. So I always remind myself, hey, take the responsibility in your hands, take the means in your hands. You are in control of your life, maybe not fully because there's always this destiny or divine purpose of us being here and

the karma from past lives and et cetera. That's another conversation, but what you can control, focus on that. The other things is just, you know, it's in God's hands and it's in the hands of other people and how that all interacts. But I believe that when you're training yourself to think good thoughts and it comes back to you, it's the law of attraction and the law of giving and taking and it comes back, you know, you become what you think, right? And so there's, there's true power in that.

Novak, you've been so kind and generous with your time. I've got a few more questions for you.

You know, I think you've talked so much about health, self-care, discipline. I know that you have your new supplement out that I can't wait to try as well, your hydration. It's called SELA, which I love the meaning of, if you can share what that means. But I love that you're finding a way to productize your mindset. Like I actually am, because I think people like myself who want to know what is that 0.0001% mindset and what are you discovering and taking. And you were just sharing

it with me earlier. I was just thinking, I'm so excited about that to try it out for myself, because I try and treat myself like an athlete, even if I'm not playing in the games you are.

Because to me, I'm trying to operate at that mindset, that level physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And I love that. So I guess, where did that come from? Was that this idea of, you know, as you're thinking about tennis and thinking about beyond tennis, like where did that

come from? I was always trying to think beyond tennis, you know, particularly, well, particularly in the last, let's say 12 to 15 years of my career, my life. I mean, I, because I was hearing early on from some other, not just tennis players, established tennis players who were retired and shared their experience of post career with me, but also other athletes and how the struggles they had mentally and particularly the struggles that they had, if they have not

prepared themselves for that transition. I believe that in some way, you cannot fully prepare yourself for that transition mentally. Like it's going to be a sad day for me when I leave tennis and it's going to be very emotional and all that. But what I'm talking about is basically the adrenaline that also needs to be filtered or rechanneled somewhere. And I know that I will play sports for the rest of my life because I love sports and being active is essential.

But also I feel like you need a challenge. Tennis has consumed most of my life and that's what I know how to do best. But I have very broad interest in a lot of different things and the industry or the sphere of life, which is called health, wellness and wellbeing is my biggest passion.

And it's very broad ecosystem or field, if you want, as you know, because you're a part of it.

But it has been my passion for 15 plus years. And, you know, I've always imagined the world where most of the people will take care of themselves or, you know, how they hydrate, how they eat, exercise, how they manage their sleep, just the healthier world. And of course, it's hard to change everything at the same time. And it, of course, takes a lot of different time because the planet is big and there's a lot of people. But I think taking small steps is very valuable and it

has its effect. So hydration is something that was always super important for me as a professional athlete. And I noticed that people who live everyday life, but not only them, but also athletes don't really understand the importance of hydration and don't really understand maybe how to fully hydrate themselves on a cellular level. Because when we talk about hydration, obviously the first thing that comes to your mind is drink water, right? We drink water,

we have to, we wouldn't survive a day without water. So that's normal. But then we also have all these other ingredients and vitamins and minerals and things that we're trying to take, whether it's through supplementation, whether it's through food. Obviously, if you can get everything through food, it's the best. Brian Johnson, I saw the other day, 100 and whatever tablets that he's taking. I mean, it's, I don't know how he does it. I mean, amazing, but I don't think I would be able to drink and I don't want to drink that many tablets. I do have supplementation myself, but I prefer trying to

take everything through food. But it's difficult because our soil is depleted. The food that we are getting is most of the time comes from the other remote side of the world, travels, lost its nutrients, you know, and it's hard, you know, that we have a polluted air, polluted water, polluted soil, all of these things, you know, play an important role in the inflammatory processes in our body or how we ingest certain ingredients and substances that are necessary for optimal health.

So going back to the hydration, I think hydration is probably the easiest step towards that healthier diet or healthier life. And it's something that we cannot go without on a daily basis and something that is easy as breathing. That's something that everybody can do. Diet changes are something that is more challenging, I think for people. And there are hundreds of different diets and I don't want to get into it because everyone has their preference, but I think hydration is probably

something that we will all agree with. So since 2017 or 18, I've been working on this project and I've been thinking, you know, and I didn't want to come out. I could have come out. I've worked with a few different people. And I finally then agreed to come out on the market with, uh, it's basically a, uh, a wellness brand called Scylla. And one of the, of the first product that we come out with is hydration, but we have magnesium. We are working on our sleep formula, nootropic formula,

gut formula. So we're going to have a line of different products and I'm doing that.

And my partner in that is actually my best friend, uh, Mark Stilitano, who is also very, very, he used to play tennis, uh, and we know each other since we were teenagers and very, very, uh, passionate guy about, you know, wellness and hydration and healthy lifestyle. So we, I found that we are very synergetic in our mission and vision. And he had something similar in his life that he wanted to do. And he said, let's join forces and do it together. So we just recently started.

Amazing.

We're very quietly, uh, kind of as a soft launch because I don't want this product, uh, or this brand to be just one of the many, many out there. And when I say that, I mean that every ingredient that is in every of the product needs to be a hundred percent best quality that is out there. But you know, I'm very passionate about this because it's a kind of a continuation of my passion of my story, of my journey. It's, it's what I love. It's what I drink on a daily basis. My kids drink it, my wife,

everybody. And so I'm always looking for new ways or best supplements or things that can improve my performance. They can improve my performance, not just on the tennis court, but also in life for me to have more clarity, more energy, better sleep and stuff like this. So I decided to do something on my own because the supplements out there that I was trying, there are some good ones, but I was not fully satisfied. So I try to kind of take the means in my hands and control the process from A to Z.

It's, it's the way I am. It's how I do things. And, and so hopefully people will like it. I don't know. You know, it's going to be interesting journey that we're embarking on. Uh, and other than that, I have another very interesting project that's called Regenesis pod that I want to get you in that pod. It's been, it's been also six years that we're working on that and we're launching later this year. And that, that pod is like a capsule, you know, like one of those sleeping capsules that you have in a, an airport. So about 12, 13 years ago, I was in Dubai airport and I was

in business class lounge. And I was like, look at me, you know, I'm so, you know, lucky to be here and to be able to have a bed or have this, you know, sleeping pod or something like that. But, you know, 99% of the people, I mean, they're on layovers, they're in transit, they're sleeping on the floor and uncomfortable chairs and stuff. So felt like how cool would it be if, you know, on the airport, we would have this pods where people will go in and out, not only to nap and sleep, but to be go in and out in shortest amount of time, whether it's, you know, eight, 10, 15, 20 minutes and feel

refreshed and feel re-energized. They can reset their system and recharge the batteries and go on with their day. And by that time I was already traveling with a additional suitcase of gadgets of, near-infrared, far-infrared, pulse electromagnetic frequency, different plates, boards, you name it. I mean, essential oils, this, that, light therapies, vibrational frequencies, sounds, everything. Everything that is out there in the market that I find amusing and interesting,

I take it, I try it, I try to implement it. So I'm still traveling with these gadgets.

And so I said, okay, so I partnered up with my partner, Tav Keen, who is Australian and lives in Bali. And so we, we connected and then he had also some similar thoughts. And then we're like, okay, can we do this pod where I would have all these gadgets incorporated in one multi-sensory device where they don't interfere with each other, but they complement each other. So where you go in, you're like in a Faraday cage, you're protected from harmful radiation of the towers, the Wi-Fi, the 5Gs, etc. And you are just giving your cells a rest and recharging and then, you know,

being stimulated with all these things. Would it be possible? And so four or five years of R&D, and we finally created it. So it's quite an exclusive, I would say, product because it's, you know, it's very expensive. It's big. It's not like a hydration drink, but my dream is to have that in every airport. It started like that. But then of course, the corporate wellness is a big world as well. The corporations, I mean, people who work nine to five, nine to eight, they're staying all day seated, you know, their posture, all these things are affected. They don't have the ability to

ground their feet and be in the nature and stuff. It's always this fast paced, modern lifestyle on the go, on the go. Give me a quick fix. I'm eating my lunch in the car on the go.

So what, you know, so I understand, you know, I'm not, not judging. I understand we all, we're all part of that world. So that's why I kind of wanted to create a, in a way, uh, even, even, even though I don't like that term, a healthy, quick fix to a modern fast paced lifestyle, men or women that, that live and don't have time. They come back home. They're super tired, exhausted, and they have kids, they have the spouse, they have everything happening. And they're like, Oh my God, I'm sore. I'm this I'm depleted. I'm not sleeping well, et cetera.

So it's, it's quite complex, but this could be, and I hope it will. I mean, again, I'm biased and we've been doing, uh, I mean, hundreds or maybe even thousands of people have done it trials and the results are incredible. We're doing a scientific, um, a study now, uh, a human study in, in, uh, one, two universities in United States with a pod. And so can't wait to hear, to see the results of that and, uh, see how it rolls out, you know? So I'm very passionate about it. These are some, you know,

I have a few other projects that I'm very, uh, involved in and, and, uh, but I like it because it's, it's in my alley, you know, it's in the area of life that I'm not only passionate about it, but that I, I feel like I have experience in knowledge to some extent. And of course I surround myself with, with people who are more qualified and knowledgeable about than me in that space.

And then we develop it together. And I feel like, like you trying to make other people feel better, you know, whether it's mentally or physically, uh, through supplements, through this pod, through this podcast, through talking, through, you know, sharing the journey, sharing the, maybe some hacks and techniques and stuff that they can do, you know, in the end of the day, that's actually what drives it. And I feel like it drives you a lot, you know, because it gives the purpose on purpose. It gives you purpose in your life. It's not like only about yourself and what

you do and the achievements and the fame and money and everything. It's, it's really about how you make your mark in the world. What's the legacy? What do you leave behind? How do people, you know, benefit from you and what you say, what you do, what you create. So that's a kind of a driving force.

You know, one of the best psychologists that I worked with, and one of the most impressive and intelligent people that I ever met in my life, his name is Dr. Jim Lehrer. And he was one of the founders of a human performance Institute, HPI in Florida. And we worked for a few years. And, you know, he has this, obviously, one of the most important questions is what would you like to have written on your thumbstone? And would you like, you know, people to list your

achievements? Or is it something else? How would you like people to remember you? You know, but deeply think about that. And then we would go through a process of writing things down and really kind of

deconstructing my personality, my life, what I'm living in a given moment, and what I, how I see the future self and how I see the future of the world and, and whether I feel like I strongly believe that I can make that impact. So I feel this is everything that I do is related to that source of the purpose and of the light that is in the center of everything. Because, you know, I, I've also turned down many different companies in my life that wanted me to be an ambassador because I just feel it's very hard

for me to represent and advocate something to millions of people that I really don't believe in. I wouldn't never drink that drink or eat that or, or whatever it is. I just, if it's not aligned with my philosophy, my mindset, it's not going to work. And, and I've selected that journey, which is for my managers and my agents, not the ideal one, but at the same time, I'm calm in my heart, in my mind, because I know that I'm doing something that is right. I love that. And I'm so excited to try it.

And I'm, I'm grateful that you've said that and that authenticity is there because I personally am someone who wants to try new things and wants to know what the best are using, especially when you're creating it yourself, you're not putting your name to it. It's not something, you know, it's, you're actually saying, no, this is what I use. This is what I'm doing. I think that's important.

So Novak, we end every interview with the final five. These have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. Uh, and then I may ask you to go over, uh, but Novak Djokovic, these are your final five. The first is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Live the life in the present moment, learn from the past, live in the present and work for the

future. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

The worst advice, if someone does good to you, do 10 times better to them. But if someone does bad to you, do 10 times worse to them. Oh, that second part is not good advice. Exactly. That first part is beautiful. Yeah. But the second, the first part is connected to the second one. That's why I said

it, but the second one I don't like. Yeah. I think it's almost like if someone does good to you, do 10 times better to them. And if someone does bad to you, do 10 times less to them. Like just, you know, that would be good advice, but that's a good answer. I've never heard that. Yeah. That's really, really good. Um, what's the power of having had such a beautiful relationship with your partner, your wife, Yelena? I can't do an interview without giving her credit and talking about her.

For sure. I feel like a good man needs a good woman and it's such a big, important part of

all of our lives. Yes. Yes. Thank you for asking me about my wife. And, you know, we've been together since my age 18, she was 19. So very long time we dated, we went through different stages in different phases. And basically she's the only like very serious relationship that I've ever had.

And, and, uh, yeah, she's my rock. She's someone that has seen the worst and the best sides of me.

She has seen my evolution. She has challenged me on every level we have grown together and we have two beautiful children and we still keep on growing and evolving. We have challenges as I guess every couple has, but I think we have a, an amazing base and foundation. And we always, when we have challenging times in relationship, we revert to that and we address, you know, why we are together, who we are as people and how we've grown and, and the future that we see is the future that we see

together. And so we, whatever we try to do, we try to do together. So all of the projects that I told you about and everything, she's been involved. And it's very important for me to always hear her thoughts, her feedback. And because she's probably the only one in my life other than my, my brothers, or, uh, or my one or two friends that is able to tell me things that I maybe don't want to hear

and really challenge my ideas, challenge my thoughts, challenge my decisions. And oftentimes her instinct or intuition was correct. And mine wasn't, I have to say that, but, uh, no jokes aside, she has been an incredible partner in this whole journey, professionally, privately, emotionally, romantically as a parent as well. So I still play at this level because also of the support that she's giving to

our family back home. And I remind myself of that a lot. You know, I've, I've grown up with two younger brothers in a very small apartment with, and I've seen what my mother, you know, did and what she does for a family and what women do to keep families together and intact and bring this incredibly powerful energy to our life and to, that gives us wings and it gives us a springboard for everything

that we're doing outside of home. It's just something that one will never comprehend unless one experiences that family life. So we've been through all these different journeys together as, you know, uh, kids, teenagers, and, you know, getting more serious in relationship and her being my fiance and then getting married and then having two kids. So yeah, it's, it's hard to express everything that I, that I feel as, as kind of a love and gratitude towards her and what she means to me in my life.

Yeah. I feel like when I've met her or interacted with her, she's always just operating at such a high frequency and a high vibration. Like she has that natural energy and it's good for, I feel like that about my wife. And I feel like it's good to have someone in your life who's that close to you that can call you out and check on you and, you know, realign you. I know, I value that deeply.

And my wife does the same for me. Question four is true as well. Uh, what was your worst day on

court and what was your best day on court? I would say winning a gold medal for my country in Olympics in Paris, 2024 would be the best moment, even better. And it surpasses me winning Wimbledon for the first time or winning Davis Cup with my country and stuff. And I have, I've been incredibly fortunate to experience some of the, I mean, the greatest achievements in our sport, but that one just because I was 37 at the time, I mean, 37 years old and maybe my last shot at a real

shot at the gold medal and everything with how it happened and how it unfolded. It's just, you know, that's the moment. And the worst would be, I would say actually also Olympics when I was, when I lost the Olympic games in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, I, uh, was, yeah, struggling a little bit with this injury of the wrist and didn't know if I'm going to play or not. Uh, I played, I lost to

Del Potro's dear friend and went on to win a silver medal for his country. Uh, I lost in first round in a tight two setter and two tie breaks and it was super emotional because Olympics playing for my country, being supported by the whole stadium, being probably at the peak of my career overall, being on a, on a run and on the roll, winning four slams. I held all four slams at that point.

I was just the most dominant I've ever was in my career. Practicing several days. I was like, I cannot miss a ball. Like this is my time. This is, I'm, there's no, no chance anybody beats me here.

And then one day or two days before the match, I start to feel something in the wrist, start to doubt myself. I started question whether I should go out or not. I have a very tough draw.

I draw Del Potro is very tough draw first round and I lose close match. You know, as I said, he goes on to win silver medal, but I, that was the moment where I just felt like my whole world collapsed. Yeah. Very, very tough. So it's interesting now that you asked me because I never thought about it, but best moment and the worst moment happened in Olympic games because Olympic games happen every four years. They're so rare. And all the other tournaments, you have a chance every year to win, but here, you know, every four years. So you got to be at your

top to be able to, you know, get a medal. That's cool. That's good. Good memories. And I'm glad you

got the gold last year. Yeah, I appreciate it. Uh, toughest opponent mentally and toughest opponent

physically. Toughest opponent mentally by far, myself. I like that's a good answer. By far.

And the toughest opponent physically, Madal. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the battles with him were just grueling. The longest Grand Slam finals in history in the finals of 2012 Australian Open, five hours and 53 minutes, I think it was. It's almost six hours of grueling battle. I won that match in the fifth set, seven, five or seven, six. It was just, I remember the closing ceremony.

After that, we were standing and listening to the sponsors speeches and stuff. And we, at one point, we both simultaneously bent down and held our knees and I could see his legs are shaking.

My legs are shaking. And then I, and then someone saw that and brought us two chairs and brought us water and we had to sit down and sit for the rest of the ceremony because we were just, I went into the locker room and took out my shoes and I had blood on all over the socks on both, both socks. And I didn't feel it. Obviously in this adrenaline rush on the court, you just go through the pain, you go through everything. And then you've like, once you cool off and your muscles are cold and everything, it's just

like devastating feeling. You can't walk, but you know, obviously more satisfying when you win such battle.

But I had incredible matches against Nadal, clay court matches. I mean, clay is the, the slowest surface and most physical in our sport and playing him on clay in Roland Garros is probably the top challenge you can have in the history of our sport. Cause he, you know, he was getting to every ball and I was also very, very good defender and always, and you know, very physically fit. So we would like push each other to the very limit physically and mentally. You know, it was at times almost like an out of body experience for both of us,

where we would just, everything would flow. We would play incredible points that would last so long exchanges. And, you know, when you finish a match, then you realize, oh my God, it's almost like you were not playing it. It was like something took over and just all your talents, the skill,

everything was on a scale or on the platform that we created. It's like, almost like a, an artist, when he goes into his, on a canvas into his zone and just starts drawing some beautiful, that's how it felt, you know, many times when I played him. And now when I talk about it and reflect, it gives me, you know, a great sense of pride and satisfaction that I've had the rivalry that I had with him. And that, you know, I feel like not only we both made history of the sport, but we both made

each other better. And I feel like we brought so many incredible emotions to people who were watching us play.

Yeah. You can still watch those. I love TikTok now because you've got the highlights.

Yeah. Yeah.

You can just watch those highlights for ages, like all the best points and people compile it and you just think, wow, it's, it is, it's poetry in motion to just watch, you know, two, two artists play together. Uh, fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show, not in the beginning though. So these, all these rituals came afterwards. Uh, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Hard to pick one thing, but I would probably create a law without punish greatly someone who just

destroys our planet, throws trash in the nature or the water or, you know, disrespects our mother nature and the planet we live on. Maybe it would be a law where you would have to say hello to every person that walks by, just trying to be more kind, more gracious, a little bit more compassionate.

We need a little bit more empathy and compassion in this planet. Because when we, when we are as people closer to each other and we are less divided, I feel like then as a positive consequence of that, we will take care of the planet we're living on.

Yeah. Well, Novak, as always, I'm inspired to see what you do, continue to do in tennis, what you'll do beyond tennis. And last time we covered your story of how you became and who you were and where you started. And I feel like today we've added another beautiful chapter onto that growth. And I am so grateful to you for showing up as you do always, for living as intentionally as you always do. I still remember we finished the last interview. And even today, my team was saying

it. After the interview last time, you spent an hour talking to my team at that time. And even today, when you were coming in, everyone was just, oh my God, he's so nice. He's so kind. It's just, it's amazing to see someone who's truly, truly, truly, uh, the goal of their sport to be that humble, grounded, kind at all times with everyone. Uh, it's truly admirable.

Thank you. I appreciate the nice words.

Yeah. And all the truly best people have it. So, you know, yeah.

Thank you, Jay, for having me and thank you for, for spending, you know, two hours with me. And I, you know, we, time flew by, I mean, it's incredible. And it's, I feel like the, the connection and the energy was, it was amazing as it always is with you.

And I hope that for the next chapter, we won't need to wait another five years.

I agree. Let's, let's promise each other.

We need to, we promise each other. We gotta, we gotta meet, uh, more frequent because I think we are both, uh, you know, expanding and evolving and doing incredible things in our own fields and so many interesting things to talk about and to share. So for sure, I'd love to, uh, I'd love to be your guest a little bit more frequently and not wait for a long time, but thank you for having me and

thank you allowing me to share my story. Thank you, man. Anyone who's been listening and watching, let me and Novak know, tag us on Instagram, on TikTok. Let us know what's resonating with you.

What's connecting with you. If there was a message, a game, a point, something that Novak shared with you that is going to stay with you for some time, let us know. I love seeing what has an impact on you.

That's the goal of these conversations. I want to see what shifts you make, the habits you change, and the new goals that you achieve because of this conversation. A big thank you to Novak again, and we'll see you on the next one. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve, and parents and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.