Meet the Stanford genius who modeled for Victoria’s Secret and won Olympic gold (ft. Eileen Gu)

Eileen Gu is 18 years old. She's a skier. She's a favorite to win several gold medals.

She has one parent who was born in China, and she switched sides despite the fact she's American.

At least invite me for a date.

Eileen not holding your princess in the cave.

I'm Eileen Gu, and welcome to The Burnouts.

Take us back to when you were juggling all of this stuff.

You were working out, you also had school, you were modeling.

How did you balance all of it? I need the Eileen Gu time management tricks.

I mean, I think that what's a little bit misunderstood about me is that because my three things, like the fashion world, skiing, and school, they're like kind of geographically disparate.

So it's not like I wake up in the morning and like ski for three hours and then go to my like seminar in the afternoon and then go shoot a campaign at night.

But realistically, what I'm really good at is less doing everything at the same time and more pivoting with very low emotional toll.

So you do like periods of hyper focus on like one specific thing and then switch?

Yeah. And it's like when you're doing one thing, it's rest from another thing.

So, for example, if I'm training or if I'm working out, like that's a physical toll.

But if I'm sitting in a classroom, my body is repairing itself while I'm doing something else.

So it's like I have all these tasks running in the background.

There's this thing called post-Olympic depression, and it's like very common among athletes, pretty well-known phenomenon.

But the interesting thing is it's not at all correlated to result.

And I think that's what's kind of surprising to people is like you can win the Olympics and still just enter the deepest rut of your life and just really be questioning everything.

Your purpose feels so burnt out, but at the same time, just have all this anxiety and pent up energy, not sure where to direct it.

And I was no exception. Right.

So like I'm talking to my friends who had this huge disappointment at the Olympics.

And in a way, they're like, you know, I mean, talking to you is kind of making me feel better because you literally had the, you know, quote unquote, perfect Olympics.

You broke all these records and you're still feeling this way.

You're feeling the same way. And so it's almost makes them feel better in a way.

And so so going through that, I think, was probably the biggest burnout thing, like six months after the Olympics.

It was just I mean, think about it. Right. You're working your entire life towards this one massive goal.

And so then you're 18. You feel like you're on top of the world.

And then you hit this whole and then what? You know, the whole world opens up ahead of you and you're questioning what next?

I would say that that was that was a burnout period for me.

We call like when we go to and it's quite cheesy, but like our friends, my mom, my text, like I have like my executive council or my board of people that I go to.

And it can be a dumb decision of what I'm doing. So healthy.

Who is that for you? Like is your mom that person? I know you're super close to your grandma.

What are like those different support systems that you have?

My mom is huge and she travels with me. Right.

So like seeking mentorship in a holistic sense is sometimes challenging because a lot of the things I do kind of are the first time someone's doing it in the way that I'm doing it.

But there are people who've gone through really incredible experiences and everyone's unique.

And so being able to draw from just that like wealth of knowledge.

So my mom, for sure. And then honestly, like friends who I really respect.

I think I have a great support system of friends.

And the cool thing is when you're little, like one to two years feels like a lot.

But then you get older and like you can have friends who are like 35.

And when was that threshold for you where you were like, oh, my God, like this thing that I love doing, like either fashion or skiing, like actually turned into, oh, my God, like I'm running my own business.

Well, it's kind of funny because the skiing thing happened by accident.

Like I always loved skiing growing up.

I grew up in San Francisco. And so I did the weekend warrior thing, like the four hour drive to Tahoe.

And what that meant that I actually was skiing two days a week.

I probably had like 45, 50 days on the mountain, which is just like by no means was I like a professional skier or training.

And so I was 16. I was running cross country and track in high school.

And that was like my big thing. I thought I was going to get recruited.

I got invited to my first free ski World Cup when I was 16.

And it was like the alternate of the alternate because like someone had gotten hurt and then that person couldn't make it on a visa issue.

And so it was this one time opportunity for me to go to a World Cup.

And it was the same week as my state championships.

And I actually picked running because I was like, yeah, because I was like, I'm going to be a runner like this is my thing.

And then at the last minute, it was actually my teammates parents who like came to me and my mom and said, we really appreciate what you're doing for our girls.

Like it's a team sport, right? You score together.

And so we understand that, you know, our team's going to do a lot better with you there as opposed to not.

But if it was our daughter, we would we would have them go to the World Cup.

And so I did. And I actually did quite well there.

And then I got enough points through that to get invited back with my own spot the next time.

And so then my second World Cup, I got second place in my third one, I actually won.

And so then that's kind of when I was like, oh, wow, I'm actually relevant here.

When did you first start reading like your first contracts?

Like, what did that look like for you?

I've always made a point of reading my own contracts.

I think that's super important to anybody out there.

Like young people, seriously, read your own contracts.

Do not trust anyone with the final read.

I don't care who they are. Read the final cut.

Really, really important.

But I go through like redlining even still.

So like I really am involved from the start to the finish.

When did I start? Probably like since the beginning, since my first deal when I was like 13, 14.

Walk me through like what's your negotiation process, particularly for like young women who are just starting their careers.

Like a tough thing is your salary negotiation.

How would you think about that even outside of brand deals?

Like, oh, this is a skill I've really taken that works for me in different negotiations.

So don't be afraid to ask.

I would say it's like number one.

Go and do the work beforehand.

So like have a sense of your value.

I would say that's super important.

What differentiates you?

Why do you deserve what you think you deserve?

And then how to ask.

So those are, I think, the two the two steps.

But the biggest thing is honestly, don't be afraid to try because the worst someone can say is no.

And then you can settle for something in between.

What's it like working with your mom?

Is there how do you guys deal with like conflict when you guys are in your work relationship?

And how do you maintain like also your personal relationship?

This is something me and Sophia have transparently struggled with.

We were roommates for years and then we recently decided like we probably should live together because we're spending so much time together at the office.

And we really had to frankly learn a way to argue with each other that is productive because she drives me fucking insane.

I know I drive her insane.

We disagree on stuff all the time.

We have to figure out like, okay, how do we separate personal?

There's nobody on earth who has my best interests at heart like my mom does.

Sometimes I just take a step back and be like, without her, without that level of trust, like it's irreplaceable.

And so even when we're fighting, it's like, how can we create a resolution, work together to resolve this problem, even if the problem is with each other?

If I have her guidance.

Yeah.

I'm almost guaranteed to do better.

And so when do I take that time to go and do my self-exploration?

And like, what is low risk enough for me to do that?

Because if everything I'm dealing with is so high level or like high stress and high pressure, then it sometimes feels like I don't have the freedom to do that.

So recently with the injury thing, I actually think that that's given me a lot of space and clarity on that.

I feel like it's so valuable to take time and just be alone.

And you don't even have to be doing anything.

You don't need to have a crazy itinerary.

It's just the sense of being alone in the world and building up that self-confidence of, hey, I am a capable person.

I have good critical thinking skills.

I can take care of myself.

If everything blows up tomorrow, I can survive.

And I think being in a city, being alone can do that for you.

I don't know what your experience has been like in New York.

I feel like there's no better place to do it.

So I'm just curious, like, do you feel that way?

A hundred percent.

I mean, we're so young, like all of us.

I mean, it's so funny.

You're like, oh, I'm 21.

I'm grown.

I mean, like I'm 23 and I still feel like I just graduated high school and I'm still beginning everything.

And I think part of that is like the only way to really get to know yourself is by being alone.

Otherwise, you just become a combination of everyone around you.

Yeah.

And then you don't learn to think about like, what do I actually care about?

Like, what do I want to see?

I need to be alone and I need to think about like, what do I think is the right decision or like, what do I want?

And then to have other people think about it.

And then you come together and you both have like a chance to share your perspective.

And I think even like, you know, one thing that you've talked a lot about is like solo travel.

When you went to India by yourself, I think that was when you had some of the best self-reflection in your life.

A hundred percent.

I mean, she came back.

Actually, she's a way better roommate.

Cleaner.

Finder.

I think it's just so like, and I definitely want to know how this has felt for you, like traveling alone.

But it's just such a transformative experience because I think that's like the moment when I realize I'm not a kid anymore.

Like, I'm fully in charge of myself.

Like, I need to take self-responsibility.

If I miss a flight, like if something goes wrong, like that was totally on me.

And I think it forces you to develop a lot of like personal critical skills.

And so, yeah, like how has that been for you?

Like now that you're traveling the world alone, like what has that taught you?

It's really important for you to feel that safety net drop out from under you.

Like, do you know what I mean?

At Stanford, it's this little bubble.

Like you have the dining halls.

You have the sense of structure.

Worst case scenario, like you have the schedule set out for you.

It's not that hard to make friends because you're just surrounded by people in your age group.

But when you're totally by yourself, it feels like the world is just opening out in front of you.

And that sense of like the yawning abyss of the world is this kind of really exciting thing on one hand, but also kind of scary and nerve wracking.

And it's so important that everybody goes through it.

It's so important.

I'm super curious to ask you because like you have like a brand, your own personal brand.

You're also your body is part of your career, both through modeling and being an athlete.

It's a huge asset that you have.

What do you feel like?

Do you ever feel like you're building a brand or where does like kind of the divide come between like where you feel like, hey, I'm a person and then I'm also building this image on top of it.

Does it feel like there's a divide there for you or do you feel like it's natural?

I'm really lucky in a lot of ways because I don't have a traditional career path.

And I'll be the first one to admit that, right?

I literally got to pick three things that interested me, school, fashion and skiing, and fashion it together in this like cool, unique, interesting way.

But it actually is just me.

Like I actually just like these things.

And if nobody knew who I was, if I didn't get paid to do any of it, these would be the things that I would want to be doing.

As far as the building a brand thing, I think the biggest thing is knowing myself and knowing what I stand for.

I say no all the time, but more importantly, I find ways to say yes.

And what I mean by that is, for example, when I turned 18, I was asked to walk Victoria's Secret.

And that was a really, really exciting thing for me.

The cultural impact of that show is there's no way to overstate.

And also just the fashion brain, that one third of my brain that I have is just like, you know, exploding with excitement.

But on the other hand, I'm thinking to myself, okay, if I want to start a company, for example, is this still a founder that someone could respect if I wanted to approach them?

Is there any door that is going to close because of this?

And that's a really unfortunate thing to have to ask, because honestly, like being able to model or do swim or lingerie or any of that can be such a deeply empowering thing.

And it is a celebration of femininity and womanhood.

But on the other hand, I mean, we can't ignore the social implications that it has.

That's just the world we live in.

And it's really unfortunate.

And so I found a way to say yes.

And what that meant was I actually, so I wore this custom, you know, bodysuit situation.

It was like leggings, like long pants, but it was like a catsuit.

It was still, I felt really confident.

I felt really feminine.

I felt like I was really embodying still the Victoria's Secret energy.

It was sexy, but athletic.

Exactly.

And I was able to have this brand still and be really true to myself.

And in no world am I thinking like, this is my brand.

It's more just like, are these values aligning with mine?

Yes or no.

And if they're not, find a way instead of just being like, no, this is not happening.

And so I ended up doing it and I was so happy.

And I think that that was definitely the right call.

And it just taught me to find a way to say yes.

Most recently this week, Sports Illustrated Swim came out yesterday.

Yeah, congrats.

Appreciate it.

But that was another dilemma for me, right?

I got the offer and they're like, hey, do you want to shoot Sports Illustrated Swim?

And I ended up doing it again because I think that I believed in the team.

It's actually an all-women-led team.

That's really interesting.

And they're so empowering, so inspiring.

The energy on set is amazing.

At no point did I feel pressured to do anything that I didn't want to do.

But the fact was I did my homework beforehand.

I went in knowing what I was okay with and what I wasn't.

And I knew exactly the values that I wanted to embody.

And it's easy to know that because I know myself.

So I went in, I wanted to embody strength.

I wanted to embody femininity and the intersection of beauty and power.

I actually wrote my college essay on that.

I love this.

But you can use these platforms in the right way and be on them and represent things that you feel you're proud of, that you want your kids to be proud of, that you think are influencing the next generation, leaving a positive legacy.

Realizing that sometimes the two options you're given are not actually two and that you are able to kind of find a third option that works out better, not only for you, but also for the other side.

And for you, how did you fall into fashion?

Like, obviously, you're beautiful.

You're brilliant.

Like, how did you decide, I want to also start modeling?

This was a super interesting time in my life.

I was 14 and I got invited to my first fashion week in Paris.

And at the time, I mean, skiing, free skiing is a very male dominated sport.

I was the only girl on my ski team forever until I was 15 and joined the US team.

So when I was 14, I had no real sense of what the intersection of like femininity and sport could look like because I so badly wanted to be a boy.

And it wasn't even in the like, I'm not like other girls.

I actually just wanted to be a little boy.

Like, I would wear the same clothes.

I would speak the same way.

I would try to, you know, emulate everything that I saw my teammates doing because I just wanted to be friends with them.

Pivoting from that all of a sudden to fashion week, right?

So different.

And I think it totally opened my eyes to what could be possible.

Like, I don't actually feel I have to sacrifice the athletic part of myself in order to also appreciate the incredible complexity and expressionism and creativity that you can see in the fashion industry.

And I don't think that you have to make a compromise there.

I'm never going to be a better boy.

Yeah.

Than the boy who's sitting next to me on the chairlift.

You know what I mean?

I'm never going to beat him at that game.

Do you ever get insecure?

I get insecure.

I think everyone gets insecure, right?

I mean, no, I would.

No one would be.

Okay, good.

I'm glad we're on the same page.

I wanted to check in there.

Okay, good.

Well, I think it's like we're all perfectionists.

And I think that's the thing that people struggle to realize.

Like, I think that was something that really stuck with me when I had like my first conversation with you at KUFA, where you were talking about like struggling with things or like self image or anything like that.

And I think it's like the problem with perfectionism is like enough is never enough.

Like there is no ceiling.

Like you can always do more.

Like, has there been times for you where you're like, what's my next move?

Like, what's my next step?

Especially now that like you have your injury.

Like, how do you look at what you want to continue to achieve?

I talk about this actually a lot with my mom because I think that she really sees this part of me very clearly.

I was always the small fish in the big pond, which is an incredible place to be as a young person because you're a sponge, right?

Your neuroplasticity is off the charts.

You're learning from just existing and you're so perceptive.

You're picking up all these subconscious cues.

And so when you are around people who know more than you, are more successful than you, are better at skiing than you, I was always the young one, the little one, maybe the only girl.

Like for some reason, I felt like I was the small fish.

And so having that mentality allowed me to grow super fast.

And it also allowed me to have a degree of humility when it came to learning.

Like it's impossible to hurt my feelings with criticism.

I think that's a really great skill that I've learned is that it's not everyone's job to be able to present something nicely to you.

So to be able to be given constructive criticism, I think is the biggest blessing.

But it also, it's a two-way street.

You have to be able to receive it.

If every time I got constructive criticism, I was offended, I would never grow.

This is kind of ridiculous.

I'll sit my friends down maybe like once a quarter.

Be like, okay, it's rosebud thorn time.

And they're like, what?

I'm like, yeah, you heard me.

Give me the thorn.

Like thorn me.

I want to know.

I want to know.

I think that's the most valuable thing that I could possibly be given.

I think that being a small fish in a big pond has made me kind of very open to this criticism and judgment from others and allowed me to grow because of it, be very resilient.

But on the other hand, it's kind of undermined my own judgment.

I think now one thing I'm working on is trusting my own judgment more.

And how do you deal with that?

I know you keep getting caught up in the media between the China, U.S. stuff.

How do you deal with that and having your own identity within that and your own opinions?

Girl, having 18 years old, I randomly flip on the TV.

Why is Tucker Carlson on a 30-minute...

I just think it's kind of crazy that that's what you're depending on for a platform.

And I don't want to make the excuse of like, oh, I'm a young girl.

Like, I am.

But also, why is that going to be your platform?

Like, you think that's going to make your popularity go up?

Like, you think like bullying 18-year-olds on your show is like a good look for you?

Because your business like has to be multicultural.

Like, you have to...

You have a business arm in China.

You have a business arm in the U.S.

That's core to the entire fashion industry.

That's how international commerce also works.

Like, so I imagine you have to...

Also, I'm just curious on like the culture on...

Do you ever feel like you get pressure from American brands to do certain things?

And then you get pressure from other brands in China to do certain things?

Like, how do you kind of walk that line as well?

That's a super interesting question.

So I am biracial.

So I feel like I really grew up with both.

Like, in the most authentic form possible.

So I was on my way to school in the summer.

And I would call the taxi cab.

I'd be like, I'm on this corner of this street.

And he would...

Every time, every morning, the car would just drive past me.

I'd be like, what?

I just called you.

Like, I said I'm right here.

And then I figured out it's because they would look at me and be like, oh, that's not the person whose voice we heard.

Like, we heard someone...

And again, you have to think like China is a very homogenous society, just racially.

And so I really stand out there.

Like, really stand out.

And I joke that I was always a celebrity growing up because I would be like four in the elevator.

And somebody would be like, look at her face.

Look at her nose.

Look.

Look.

Look at her.

Like, look at the little girl.

Like, look at the little European girl.

And I think that's kind of a thing in the U.S. where it's like, if you're, you know, the odd one out, you think of it as a bad thing.

And so I had that mentality for a few years.

But then what I realized is people were actually like kind of complimenting me.

Because you're gorgeous.

Well, thank you.

But I mean, I was five.

I was just like, what am I doing?

Like, why can I not be like other people?

I'm trying to prove to you that I speak Chinese.

I like my mom is Chinese.

I've spent so much time here.

I feel so culturally fluent.

Like, what else do you want from me?

How else can I prove to you that I fit in?

And then I stopped trying to prove it.

Because I was like, this is really interesting.

I actually can be a cultural bridge.

You're right.

I'm not fully one.

I'm actually both.

And there's no shame in that.

Like, I'm fully both.

And that's even better.

My world is even bigger.

I've expanded my worldview.

And I get to play this unique role as a bridge and bring all this joy that I get to experience from both of these places to one another.

And that's the most powerful and awesome and exciting thing that I could possibly think of.

I mean, I remember I was four in kindergarten in the U.S.

And kids would be bringing in, like, raisins or whatever snack for snack time and for recess.

And I would bring in, it's called lo mi ji.

It's like this lotus leaf wrapped sticky rice with sausage in the middle.

Like, very Asian sort of thing.

And so it was definitely sticking out in the lunchboxes.

And so I didn't even have a lunchbox.

I have, like, a plastic bag.

Of course.

Of course.

But I think there's always that story of, like, the kid or, like, the biracial kid growing up.

And they're like, oh, I felt so left out.

Like, the other kids were eating this and I was eating this and I was made fun of because it smelled weird or people were making fun of me.

I actually had the opposite experience.

I brought it in and I was like, psh.

I would pull up with, like, a full yam.

And kids would be like, I mean, you're five.

You have no sense of, like, race or judgment or anything.

You just want to fit in.

You just want to.

And so whoever actually is more confident in that period of time gets to be the trendsetter.

And so I got to be this cultural ambassador.

Like, my whole grade grew up loving Chinese food.

I mean, in talking to you, it's so clear.

Like, you do feel so much pride.

Like, you do feel so much resonance with both parts of your identity.

I mean, what was it like for you when, like, Tucker Carlson, like, these crazy people started coming at you?

Like, how did you feel?

I mean, I was sad.

I was sad.

I was.

I just felt so misunderstood.

And I first I think it was sadness.

It was disappointment.

And then it was anger.

I felt really angry.

I was like, who are you to get to go online with this big platform and you don't even get.

I mean, at least invite me for a date.

Yep.

Like, let me come defend myself.

Like, why don't we just sit down and talk?

You want to have all this free speech yourself?

Great.

Like, you want to go up and, like, yap to your community?

Great.

Did they ask you?

Let me come?

No.

I was like, I will come.

After this, they better fucking ask you.

I was like, at least let me tell my story.

I think it's unfair that you get to bully me one-sided.

I just, I'm not a fan of that.

And so there was actually a press conference right after the Olympics, like, literally right after I won the Olympics.

I was taken into this press room by myself.

No agent.

No mom.

No family.

Nothing.

Totally vulnerable.

Just me.

And in front of me, it's like a room of reporters.

And they're like, so what do you think about U.S.-China geopolitics?

And I'm like, I, just while in the Olympics, like, you were asking me to solve problems.

I'm just trying to focus on what is relevant to me, what I actually can have impact on, and also what I'm passionate about.

And honestly, I'm telling the truth.

This is my experience.

If you don't think I'm right, or if you don't believe me, if I'm telling the truth and you just don't believe me, there's nothing I can do.

There's literally nothing I can do.

In Chinese, there's a proverb that says, you can't wake someone who's pretending to be asleep.

And I think that really rings true here.

If you've told your story, if you've been, if I think that my logic is very strong, I think that I've explained everything from a logical, from an emotional, from a personal standpoint.

I've literally covered everything that I possibly can into every decision that has been publicly scrutinized that I've made.

I have no regrets about them.

I think I'm doing the right thing.

I think I'm making the world a better place.

I mean, post-Olympics, 350 million people started snow sports.

That's incredible.

I didn't know that.

That's so cool.

350 million.

Can you believe?

I mean, going from, and I think I hold such, this holds such a special place in my heart because the scale of that is just unbelievable.

And skiing especially was kind of a small sport to begin with.

Free skiing was.

And to be able to have it recognized at such large scale, to have girls on the slopes, never questioning that this sport doesn't belong to them.

You know, they never felt like it was an all boys thing.

They never felt like they had to fit into the boys club because the first time they heard about it was from someone who's a young woman, a young Asian woman.

And they're like, oh my gosh, you know, the sport is for me too.

And they just, that thought never has to cross their mind.

Yeah.

And I think the reality is like, we've seen this, this trope so many times again, you know, with, with athletes who are caught between two countries that are massive superpowers, you're asked constantly to comment on geopolitical stuff.

And it's like, no, your mission is getting more girls out there, getting more girls to feel confident is my understanding and getting more girls on the fucking slopes, which you've done and you've accomplished.

So you don't need to be the ambassador criticizing all the human rights violations of both countries and doing all of that.

And I think that's kind of an undue burden that we put on athletes, but I want to back up, you know, now, obviously you're one of the most highest paid athletes ever, but I want to back up to like, you're 13, you get your first paycheck.

And I'm thinking about like the girls who are listening, like, what do you do with that first paycheck, that first deal you get, like, do you stash it away or reinvesting it?

What do you think about there?

And what kind of advice would you have?

I contributed towards tuition.

And so that was my big thing.

And so I was able to pay for my own tuition from my freshman year of college, high school onwards.

So that was a point of pride for me.

I was just honestly really happy.

And being able to do that even now for college, like, oh my gosh, Stanford is so expensive.

But like, being able to click that pay button, it makes me feel proud.

It's like something that I'm really proud of.

And I feel it's contributing to who I want to be, the person that I've always wanted to become.

If me at age 10, 12, like 13 could come see me now, I think she would be so proud of me.

And that's what matters to me.

What would be like something that you wished like four years ago someone had told you?

We glorify sacrifice too much as a culture.

And that's kind of my hot take for the day.

Um, I think that sometimes people think, you know, I've suffered.

I woke up at four in the morning to do this thing.

Okay.

How productive were you from four to seven?

Like, how did that lack of sleep affect you?

And so no one gets a prize for suffering.

If you want to talk about productivity and you want to talk about optimization, talk about that.

But don't talk about the suffering that you went through.

If you can do something easier, do it easier.

You don't need to take the hard way.

You don't need to follow.

And this also goes into like following the beaten path.

You don't need to follow the beaten path.

Sometimes the easier way is like, you don't need to walk around the thing.

Just like swim through the lake, you know, figure it out, build a boat.

Like, I mean, you guys know me.

I have a vibrant social life at Stanford.

Go out.

Like I have tons of friends.

I have friends in different grades.

I mean, you guys are in a different grade than me.

Like I, I don't feel like I'm sacrificing on that, but also I'm taking every class that interests me.

I've done the physics class.

I took AeroAstro.

I'm taking philosophy.

I've done the IR classes.

Like I literally, I'm doing everything and I don't feel like I'm sacrificing on that.

And I think that's how you live the most full life.

And so that's why I guess I've built this brand.

I'm like really shy away from all these buzzwords because it's really just me.

They're all the things that I love to do.

And I've found a way to make it relevant to the world.

Do you think you would have done like academia or something?

I mean, when you were like, I'm so excited about school.

I want to take astrophysics and all this stuff.

I was like, damn, I'm so impressed by her.

I think that being an academic is holds a really central role in my identity, like way more so than people anticipate.

I think also part of that is what makes me a good skier.

When I was a freshman in high school, there were guys on my team who were doing online high school.

But I was 14.

I was the youngest on this team.

I was so scared of everyone because they're all like older, cool.

They're all boys.

And so in order to make friends, I would do their homework.

Shut up.

Eileen, you're joking.

So did she though.

So did she though.

You're not in bad company though because she did too.

And so I was like a freshman in high school, like doing these like older guys, high school senior like homework.

And when I tell you that was the best SAT prep I ever did, you will never catch me like in an SAT prep class.

Like never had to do any of that because I was so ready.

Are you kidding me?

Like I had it all down and like that was just who I was and I like never shied away from it.

And that was just where I felt like I got my strength and my sense of identity from.

And then I realized that it actually translates so directly to skiing because skiing, if you are able to visualize, that puts you at a major advantage.

And if you're able to visualize in multiple dimensions, and when I say dimensions, I mean spatial audiovisual.

If you're able to have a good sense of the physics of a trick, if you can watch a trick backwards and forwards, if you know where kind of these forces kick in and what it feels like, that puts you at an advantage.

And so if I've taken physics class and if I know how the trick feels in the air and I put those two things together, I feel like that gives me a unique edge.

Also, when it comes to competition mentality, if I've taken a psychology class, if I learn about fear, if I know how to learn and if I know how to learn a trick and know when to practice, almost like studying, that gives me an edge.

And if I know myself, if I know how I learn, when I learn best, how I can review things, that gives me an advantage.

So as far as being in school and also skiing goes, I think that it's helped me so much.

And the older I get, the more grateful I am that I stuck with that and never felt embarrassed by the nerd allegations.

If anything, I think I'm so proud of it.

And I'm so happy.

We're all nerds, let's be honest.

Yeah.

I mean, the older you get, the cooler it is.

And then everyone wishes they were a nerd when they were younger.

But I think that's also so interesting because, I mean, I don't know if you struggled with this at all or like how this was for you.

But I think for guys, especially, that is really intimidating.

Like, oh, this girl is so smart.

Like, she can do my homework.

Like, I think it's just really interesting how that's such a positive trait for men.

But then it's like the moment that it's a woman, it kind of is like, oh, like she thinks she's this shit or something like that.

That's how you can tell a high quality man from a low quality man.

Yeah.

That's 100%.

I actually like, I used to be like, oh, like, why are men so, like, why are men so intimidated by me?

Why do men get like emasculated and then start treating me poorly?

That's another interesting thing is that, like, when you, that sense of insecurity.

Tucker.

You can tell me what?

But it's like, that's what emasculation does.

And the male ego is such an interesting thing, but it's a very fragile one.

And it's, the danger around the male ego is that it's, people don't study it.

People aren't aware of it.

And so you can't even point to it and be like, oh, that's X, Y, Z. It's just this like inherent thing that if a guy is insecure, if he hasn't done the self-work, it shows.

And it is like a red flag, sirens on the street, like fire in the building, get out, get out.

And I think that as intelligent women, that's like number one trap that people fall into.

Because we have this go-getter attitude.

And so sometimes it's like, oh, there's a challenge.

Let me fix it.

Let me fix it.

Like, I can change this.

I can fix it.

Like, let me teach him.

Let me, you know, but the more you try to do that, the worse it gets.

Because the problem was never you.

The problem was never you.

It was an insecure guy who doesn't know how to deal with competence.

And in order to feel like he's superior, he has to push you down and make you inferior to keep this, like, gap that he thinks should exist.

But this, guys, this is not all men.

No, it's definitely not all men.

But I think it's so important for young, ambitious women to avoid falling into that trap of, like, that male validation is not worth it because it's fake.

Like, he's just trying to make you feel small so that he feels bigger than you.

And, like, you shouldn't feel small.

I don't know.

I feel like there's two kind of, like, approaches to this where it's like, okay, there's the kind of relationship where it's, like, truly a partnership where it's like you and whoever you're with, whether you're with a lady or a dude, it's like you're sitting down every two months, you're like, okay, like, where are you struggling?

Where am I struggling?

What are our goals for the next couple months?

Let's, like, be a team here.

Like, how are you going to succeed this year in your job?

How am I going to succeed in this?

Okay, do I have a personal goal to maybe eat better?

Are you going to hold me accountable even if that's hard?

And then there's another trope which is, like, you know, kind of the person wants to shine and then you're, like, the backlit person.

And so I think, like, the male validation can be great but only if they're actually seeking that kind of partnership.

I think the issue is we've fallen into as a society that that's not often what you see.

Like, you don't see marriages where people are sitting down and doing, like, you know, an executive sync where they're planning for the next quarter together.

Like, and that's, like, me personally, that's what I want.

Like, when I'm getting married, that's what we're having.

I can totally see you with that.

You deserve that.

I can so see you.

No runs for me.

No runs for me.

Me and my husband are doing an exec sync today and we have a lot to review from this last quarter.

Last quarter you took off.

What was that like?

Because your entire brand is, like, doing everything.

Winning gold medals, being an ASAR student, being a supermodel.

Like, what did that look like for you?

And did you get any rest last quarter or what were you up to?

So, honestly, the entire taking time off thing was kind of an identity crisis to begin with because Olympics work on four-year cycles and as do high school and college.

So, actually, in high school, instead of doing the whole four years, I actually graduated a year early.

And so, I was the first person in our high school's history to graduate a year early so that I could do the Olympics in the fourth year.

And so, in my head, I was like, oh, I'm just going to do the same thing at Stanford.

So, I actually, like, got ahead, like, did a bunch of summer classes and had this full intent to graduate a year early so that I could do the same four-year cycle.

And my mom, I think people think that she's, like, crazy tiger mom, but she's actually the opposite.

And so, she's, like, reverse tiger momming me and being like, when are you going to drop out?

When are you going to take time off?

And so, I think eventually, like, my mom, mentors, people I really respected were coming to me and being like, look, Eileen, the best time of our life was really in college.

Like, we had so much fun.

We didn't have these crazy responsibilities that we have now.

Like, the real world hasn't really hit yet, but we get to go around and learn for fun, be around like-minded people, be in this beautiful place.

Like, why are you rushing to get out?

That's kind of where I was at.

And I finally came to terms with that.

So, like, I took one quarter off.

A whole 10 weeks, girl.

Woo!

It's a slippery slope.

And then I took another one off.

But yeah, so now I'm in my second quarter off.

I actually had some injuries.

So, I had a pretty bad concussion at X Games in January and then came back to snow and then

broke my collarbone.

I'm so sorry.

You're super brutal.

I know you're a super, like, regimented person.

Since I've known you, you're running, like, literally so many miles per day.

You're working out.

You're studying.

And you're managing an entire brand, business, and career on top of this with your own personal brand.

What is it like, like, the mentality of getting injured because you're such, like, a regimented person?

Oh, my gosh.

That is such a good question.

And, like, actually, yes.

A hundred percent.

I think for me, I never really learned the, like, traditional rest strategies.

And so, for me, like, running has been this huge just outlet for me since forever.

And so, not being able to run and then compounded with just the emotional and physical just, ugh, anxiety with the injury itself was just, like, debilitating, honestly.

And, like, people don't understand the emotional and physical toll that injury takes on athletes.

And it's just, like, absolutely debilitating on all levels.

Like, so brutal.

I'm curious, like, how it has been, like, for you on Stanford.

Like, do people have preconceived notions of you?

Like, what has it been like trying to make friends when people might have already seen you on the news?

Yeah.

I mean, look, the, like, photos at parties is going to exist.

So, I don't drink, like, ever.

That's just, like, a personal thing.

I'm also Asian.

So, like, I don't metabolize alcohol.

It's, like, not even fun if I were to.

So, it's, like, I don't really feel like I'm missing out.

But that's, like, a big thing for me.

I just don't want to be drinking.

I don't want to, like, do something stupid.

I don't want someone to, like, take a photo of me.

It's just there's no need.

And drinking doesn't add anything to the experience anyways.

So, it was just an easy choice for me.

But, like, that's one thing, right?

Another thing, for example, could be, like, oh, you're actually really XYZ.

That's the classic.

Ew.

Wait, you're actually really smart.

Wait.

Wait.

You actually really know what's going on in this class.

You're actually really well prepared for this final.

Like, call me.

I'll punch them.

Oh, my God.

Call me.

I'll fuck them.

Call me anytime.

One of these guys.

A1.

Tucker.

You let me know.

I'll be there.

I'll be there, Eileen.

And I will drink.

And I will drink before and I'll punch them.

Boxing gym only.

Oh, my God.

I'll chug it down.

Tequila.

I could sock them really fast.

Shots before the consultation.

You don't want to look stupid.

I'm happy to do it for you.

She's not joking.

I'm not joking at all.

At all.

My eyes, like, twitching.

I'm ready to go.

I'm so ready.

I'll call you up.

Guys, you don't want to mess with me.

I have Phoebe on speed dial.

Eileen, it has been such a pleasure.

I have missed you.

And this has been incredible.

I've learned so much, even through being your friend.

But just sitting and talking to you about everything has been amazing.

I fear you're going to be added to the exec council I'm going to call.

But thank you again for coming on The Burnouts.

Oh, I love you both so much.

I'm so happy to get to do this.