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This interview offers a candid look at Kamala Harris's personal and political journey, revealing her motivations, challenges, and perspectives on leadership, public service, and the current state of the nation.
Published October 30, 2025
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Kamala Harris
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SPEAKER_04: I'm going to just be honest. There were times where Joe Biden greatly disappointed me and frankly, you know, angered me. Like on the day of my debate with Trump, the stakes were so high and the president calls and he said to me, it just was so unnecessary.
SPEAKER_04: That his motivation was all about himself.
SPEAKER_00: I'm Vice President. If there's nothing you said, I couldn't ask you.
SPEAKER_04: Because I have a lot to say. Okay. And so, it.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so do you wish you hadn't ran?
SPEAKER_04: No, but I do regret that we did not have more time.
SPEAKER_00: And then the debate that came before with Biden and Trump, it was a car crash. I mean, this was clearly an individual that was very much struggling.
SPEAKER_04: He didn't want that debate. I could tell something was a little off.
SPEAKER_00: How'd you know?
SPEAKER_04: Well, I could start with this.
SPEAKER_00: And what about not going on Joe Rogan's show?
SPEAKER_04: I definitely regret that we didn't do it, but there was a lot of games being played.
SPEAKER_00: And then on that night when the election hasn't gone your way in, what would I have seen if I was a fly on the wall in the room?
SPEAKER_04: I was in a state of shock. Like, I haven't felt anything similar to the emotion I felt that day, other than the grief I felt when my mother died. And I knew what was going to happen to our country. So I had a hard time reconciling that we can't still do something about it. Because I grew up in an environment where everyone was fighting for justice and for equality. So I do think about how different it could have been. But sometimes the fight takes a while.
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean that you're going to run again?
SPEAKER_00: I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So if you could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches the show frequently can do to help us here, to keep everything going in this show, in the trajectory it's on. So please do double check if you subscribed. And thank you so much. Because in a strange way, you're part of our history and you're on this journey with us. And I appreciate you for that, so yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00: Madam Vice President, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I am well. I mean, all things considered, I am well. My family is good health, so I start there. But otherwise, you know, it's a troubling time.
SPEAKER_00: What are the full range of emotions? When you said all things considered, what's the full picture there?
SPEAKER_04: Everything from grateful and feeling very blessed to extremely troubled, disappointed, concerned of the state of our country and, by extension, the world. Like a lot of people who are watching the news and reading the news, there's a state of anxiety. What will happen next? I often have found myself saying to people, it may get worse before it gets better. And so the knowledge of that, perhaps the anticipation of that, I think keeps me and many others on edge.
SPEAKER_00: Do you believe that? Do you believe it could get worse before it gets better?
SPEAKER_04: I think it's very possible. Every day, because actually during the book tour, I've said it to audiences and in one city, and then the next day something happens. There's a lot that's very unpredictable about this administration, although there is almost all of it that I did predict.
SPEAKER_00: I know you only had 107 days to potentially intervene in the course of history, but when you see these things playing out that you're referring to, that incite those feelings you have of frustration, a little bit of anxiety, etc. Do you feel a sense of responsibility in a weird way? Because there was a percentage chance of sort of intervening in these things? This is a complex question to ask, but it's...
SPEAKER_04: I do think about how different it could have been. I do think about it in the context of the number of people who are being impacted in such a horrible way. I think of it in terms of the number of people who are existing and living in utter fear right now, afraid of being attacked or afraid of being targeted with hate, much less misinformation. Yeah, I do. And I know that the race that I ran for president of the United States, the outcome of that election is what has happened. And it would have been different. It would have been very different. I try not to allow myself to think too much this way, I will tell you that, because I, for better or worse, really do like to be centered on the present.
SPEAKER_00: So let's go, I want to understand the set of circumstances that created someone like you, because you're an anomaly. There's a lot of firsts that appear in your career. But if we start at the beginning, what is the context that shapes someone to become such an anomaly in their professional career?
SPEAKER_04: My parents and the community that raised me. My mother arrived from India in the United States at the age of 19 by herself. My mother naturally, at that young age, became aligned with the civil rights movement in Berkeley and Oakland, California, met my father, who had been a national scholar in Jamaica. They fell in love. And here I am. My sister and I were born. And we were born in an environment where everyone was fighting for justice and for freedom and for equality. Every message we got was, you are important and you have a duty to figure out how you're going to participate.
SPEAKER_00: I noticed this as I was reading through your story, how service and helping others seems to be so interwoven into your DNA. And even we spoke to Doug, your husband, and he was telling me a story about your first date with him.
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh. What did he tell you?
SPEAKER_00: Well, apparently you made a remark on that first date that you're here to help people and to serve people. He told me many things. We have many pages of what Doug said. Very fascinating. He's very in love with you, by the way.
SPEAKER_04: I'm very in love with my husband. And he's very funny. I hope you got a sense of it.
SPEAKER_00: He was a hilarious guy.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, he and I had such different careers, both of us being lawyers, right? He went immediately into private practice. I never wanted to be in private practice. It was never about money for me. It was always about people and how could I do the work that was about protecting people and giving people dignity?
SPEAKER_00: Why protecting people?
SPEAKER_04: I think there's a lot that has to do also maybe with birth order. I'm the eldest. And from the age of two years old, my mother told me, take care of your sister. Look out for your sister. You've got all kinds of stuff there.
SPEAKER_00: All the pictures. I've been through everything.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this is my sister, Maya.
SPEAKER_00: That's you protecting her.
SPEAKER_04: And that's me protecting her. I grew up also, you know, seeing my mother, who was a five-foot-tall brown woman with an accent, would be treated. And she taught me this. My extended family taught me. But then I also witnessed the importance of making sure that all people, that their dignity is respected and protected. And I, because I, you know, I have lived a life to see where that doesn't always happen.
SPEAKER_00: So you decide to focus on law in public practice. You have a phenomenal career from that point onwards. It's really remarkable what you're able to accomplish. And this is, I guess, where a lot of the firsts come in. Because from the age of 24 to 51, you rise from deputy district attorney to California's attorney general, becoming the first woman and first black person to hold both roles. And you led major reforms in that time, including securing $25 billion in homeowner relief after the 2008 crisis, launching the back-on-track LA rehabilitation program and making California the state, the first state to mandate body cameras for justice agents, and much more. An incredible career up until that point. That could have been it. You could have bowed out at that point and celebrated a wonderful career.
SPEAKER_04: But there's so much more to be done. There's so much more to be done. I think one of my strengths and weaknesses is I like to solve problems. But that means that I tend to, once a problem has been addressed, move on to the next one without maybe taking the time to pat myself on the back. Because now it's time to move on to the next issue.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. During your career, you saw some horrific things. That's the nature of your job. You deal with the darkest parts of reality. The worst parts of human behavior in nature I've seen.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you're right. Give me some context there. What does that mean in reality?
SPEAKER_04: Well, for a while, I specialized in child sexual assault, which is about the most horrendous of abuse and crime, which is an adult abusing a child. And those cases were so difficult for so many reasons. I mean, there's a couple that I remember in particular where the children were so young that they wouldn't be able to testify. One was an elementary school little girl. And I mean, I remember going into the bathroom of the courthouse and crying because I knew a jury would not have enough to convict. And it broke my heart. I mean, and I have thought about that little girl, you know, years and years and years later. But those cases, you know, it's the worst of human behavior, which is we as a society should be in the business of protecting children and protecting their vulnerability so that they can thrive. But I've, you know, I've prosecuted homicide cases. I've, you know, prosecuted fraud cases.
SPEAKER_00: How does one deal with all of this stress and responsibility? And I'm not just referring to your time as attorney general, but even thereafter with running for president and the ups and downs of that, the public feedback, the pressure, the responsibility of potentially running the, you know, the free world basically and becoming the most powerful person on earth and the ups, the downs, the attacks, the, the, the child abuses. How does one learn? Is there a framework you've built? Is there other ideas or principles that you've developed to deal with such pressure?
SPEAKER_04: Well, this may sound trite, but I work out every day. I work out every morning, no matter how little sleep I've had. I just find it to be just mind, body and soul. Have you changed over time?
SPEAKER_04: Oh, for sure. I've changed over time. The pressure has changed in magnitude. Um, but the pressure that I feel in terms of my sense of personal responsibility has not changed. I, I put a lot of, I, I, I hold myself to a very high standard and, um, I tend to be a perfectionist, even though I am far from perfect. You know, I, I mean, even during the 107 days, every night I would stay awake thinking, what more could I have done with that one day?
SPEAKER_00: 24 year old Kamala Harris, who starts as that sort of, uh, becomes, eventually becomes a deputy district attorney. If I sat her there and you're sat there now as, um, Madame Vice President, what would be the notable differences in personality, mentality, in perspective?
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's interesting. Well, I, I don't know if it's changed, but she was fearless.
SPEAKER_02: She was fearless.
SPEAKER_04: She was fearless. She didn't hear, no, it can't be done. And whether it was the first case that I had, and I was a young prosecutor and I was going through the files and it was a Friday evening. And I realized that the person who had been arrested had young children at home, a woman, and all the courts were shutting down. And I went to the courtroom and I asked the judge, please take the bench again. She has young children. She can't stay in over the weekend. And the clerk was like, nope, he's gone for the day. He's leaving for the day. And I would not leave. And they called the case, you know, but not hearing no, I just, I, um, that has been probably a through line of my, my life. I don't rest easy with the idea that something is not possible. Um, at least I don't rest easy with it without trying to show that it is possible. And that's probably not changed. I also have started to sit better with the idea that, but you can't change everyone.
SPEAKER_00: How does that change your approach, knowing that you can't change everybody?
SPEAKER_04: I'm better able to assess a situation to figure out what is the potential there. Okay. Yeah. And be perhaps a bit more realistic without being, I think, jaded about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's wisdom and experiences.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah. It comes with, it comes with, I think, a bit of experience.
SPEAKER_00: Which allows you to be more efficient and effective.
SPEAKER_04: And that's right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Because that is how I reconcile it, which is, the effort is better placed somewhere else.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And at what point in this, in this journey, did you realize that you wanted to be president of the United States? Like, was there a lunch or a dinner you had with Doug? When does that decision get made in your career?
SPEAKER_04: It was when I was in the Senate.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: I ran into a friend who came up. Doug and I were at a, basically a family table in a local restaurant eating. And he said to me, you should run for president. And it had not occurred to me until then. It had not occurred to me to run for president. I, there are people who are born thinking they're going to be president. There are people who look, who look in the mirror every day and see a president. I was not one of those people. But then the thought, it kind of germinated. And then, of course, being vice president, and doing the work of vice president of the United States, I met with over 150 world leaders, presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings. I've negotiated very important deals and issues on behalf of the American people. I've spent countless hours, not only in the Oval Office, but the Situation Room and traveling around the world. And so in those 107 days, I was fully aware of not only the importance of the job, but fully aware that I had the experience and knowledge to be able to do it effectively.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is one of the things. I was actually talking to a friend of mine downstairs, Lucy Mangini, who sat out there. And we were talking about this idea of like, does imposter syndrome ever leave you? And imposter syndrome is a bit of a loaded term. But you kind of assume that people in higher places than you are, have some like genetic or mental or some gift. They have all the answers. But the higher you climb, with your own continued naivety, you start to suspect that no one really is genetically gifted or like has some superpower that you don't have. Right. And I'm wondering if you've experienced that in your career, where the higher you've climbed, you've realized that actually everybody up here is like, I'm like that, like, oh, I'm at least on their level. Have you had that experience in your career?
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I have. And, but I've also had the imposter syndrome experience. And that was when I was first elected DA. And I challenged then the incumbent. I started out at six points in the polls, which is six out of 100. You know, people recently asked me, oh, about polls, polls. Well, you know, if I listened to polls, I would have never run from my first office. And therefore, we wouldn't be having this interview probably. And I won. And it was, you know, it was not expected that I would, at least when I jumped in the race. And there I was sitting in the office. And I thought, oh, my God, I'm now the elected DA of a major city in the United States. In hindsight, it was, maybe it's, we call it imposter syndrome. To your point, maybe it is a very loaded term. Because I think there's nothing wrong with having, and I think there's a lot that is good with having a certain level of humility. And in particular, when the people have vested you with great power. Right? To understand it's not about you. Right? I think that that is, that is part and parcel of what, when we call imposter syndrome or who has it. I think often it is because they understand how serious the job is on behalf of others.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: I applaud a bit of humility, honest humility, not feigned humility. Right? Because there are plenty of people that are, you know, self-deprecating for the sake of the shtick of it all. But yes, to your point, the higher you go. It does. It does, because the more you're exposed to being, the more you're in the rooms with the people who are, who otherwise feel untouchable, the more you understand that they are not untouchable.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: The more you understand everyone's got a little dust on them. And they're not, not everyone's shiny.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: But it's liberating to know that that's the case. Because, you know, there's, we all put the ceiling above us and we think, no, that's my level and everyone above that has some gift that I will never be able to attain. So I won't even strive to break that ceiling because, you know, I don't deserve to be up there.
SPEAKER_04: But, and also don't discount the signals that, that many people are sent that you don't belong there.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: And, and, you know, I, I, especially when I'm mentoring people, will often say to them, don't ever limit yourself based on other people's limited ability to see who you are. That's their limitations to see who you are in your capacity. Don't impose those limitations on yourself.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, this, that photo I showed you before we started recording that LeBron posted is a pretty iconic example. I'll put it on the screen. But it just goes to show, I think, all the vice presidents that came before you. And frankly, they all look the same. So one might fall into the trap of thinking that if I don't look like this, then I can't do this job. You know, that's what, I think the human mind logically might arrive at that conclusion. It looks for pattern recognition. It might think if I'm not one of these here, one of these men here with this suit on and this kind of hair and this age, then that's not a position I can thrive in.
SPEAKER_04: I'll see you and add one.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_04: And everyone else thinks that this is the image of who can do the job. So the added challenge is not only the limitations one puts on themselves, but the limitations one might be met with around other people's perceptions about who can do what.
SPEAKER_00: And have you had that through your career?
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Is there any particular examples that always sit at the front of your mind where you really, really felt that the room you were in, people were discounting you purely based on appearance or gender or race or anything like that?
SPEAKER_04: I mean, there are times in my career when I walked in the room and someone said, you know, something along, if they didn't know me, if they didn't know what they were walking into, you know, they were waiting for my boss.
SPEAKER_00: And how did you deal with that? How did you stop that suppressing you? Because it's very easy to feel that and go home and to shrink.
SPEAKER_04: You will often be, you may often be the only one who walks into a boardroom, a courtroom, a meeting room who looks like yourself or has had your life experiences. But when you walk in that room, chin up, shoulders back, knowing there are so many people who are not in that room, who are so proud of you walking in that room and expect that you will use the voice that you carry. You know, and there are tools that one has to employ when you otherwise are aware that you might be presenting the unfamiliar. But what I also would caution is don't walk in that room with the assumption that your value will not be recognized, right? And so, again, this gets back to my point about we all have to moderate what limitations are we putting on ourselves with what limitations are being sent our way.
SPEAKER_00: And when you say tools?
SPEAKER_04: Well, just like that, when you walk into that room, see all the people. I think sometimes of Mrs. Frances Wilson, who was my first grade teacher who attended my law school graduation. I think of my mother, who would say to me, Kamala, don't you ever let anyone tell you who you are, you tell them who you are, right?
SPEAKER_00: And you think of these people when you walk into these important rooms to remind you?
SPEAKER_04: It's a tool I have used over a period of time, and it has served me well. Yes, there's Mrs. Wilson, that's at my law school graduation, and that's my mother. That's exactly right. How about that? Yeah, where'd you get all these pictures?
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's stopping, you know.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's Mrs. Wilson.
SPEAKER_00: And so why is thinking of Mrs. Wilson helping you when you walk into those rooms?
SPEAKER_04: Because there is, I think, a key to success that each of us who has achieved success probably shares, which is there has been someone at least, and it could be a parent, it could be a teacher, it could be a neighbor, it could be a pastor, or someone who convinced you you were special. You may not have been particularly special, but they told you you were and you believed them. I know that's true for me. I may not have been particularly special, but I had a few people who told me I was, and I believed them. But with that came, therefore, don't do this thing, because you shouldn't be doing that thing, but go in that room. I think, you know, when we talk about mentorship, when we think about the signals that we as a society send to children, and I mean all of our children, our own children, the children of a community which we should think of as our children, to send them signals that tell them they are special and then back that up with giving them the resources would make us a much stronger society.
SPEAKER_00: As you said that, I was reflecting on little passing comments people in my life made at certain points that at the time I was suspicious about, like, you know, them telling you that you're going to be special or do something great one day, that I might have not fully believed myself, but I believe they believed it.
SPEAKER_03: Right. But that's what I'm saying. They told me and I believe them.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04: I didn't think of it, and maybe that's why I don't look in the mirror and see all these things. But yes.
SPEAKER_00: Have you got any tools around how you've learned to hold yourself? Thinking back to 24-year-old Kamala versus this Kamala, is there a certain way you hold yourself in those rooms that also garners that respect? I notice when you speak, you don't rush. And I think people that are younger in their career, they tend to...
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right. Because they're kind of almost trying to excuse the amount of time they're taking, and they kind of are a bit more. So I'm just wondering if there's anything you've, any tools in that regard that have helped.
SPEAKER_04: It's important to have some sense of conceptually what you mean to say. And not that you have to rehearse what you're going to speak before you speak it, but do have a sense of what you intend to communicate. And I think it's also important to, especially with complex issues in the context of a discussion, deconstruct in your mind what the issue is so you can speak logically.
SPEAKER_00: And what about appearance generally? Do you think much about that? So do you think much about... Because you're, I mean, you look very... Your outfit's stunning today.
SPEAKER_04: You're very good. Sadly, it does.
SPEAKER_00: It does?
SPEAKER_04: I mean, depending on context. Sadly, it does. We are still, I think, in a world where the way you appear when you walk in the room impacts first impressions. Including just, for example, again, even in mentoring people. People will look at their watch or their phone to see if you've walked in the room on time. And will judge something about your character. That the piece of how you look that is going to suggest the pride that one has in themselves as a matter of self-respect. I mean, I've always... This is, you know, I grew up in the black church. You dress up. And it's a reflection of your dignity and the respect you have for the place that you may be.
SPEAKER_00: And in January 2019, you launched your presidential campaign for the first time. Which was up until you dropped out later that year in December.
SPEAKER_01: Correct. Why did you drop out of that presidential race? What's the full context behind the scenes?
SPEAKER_04: There was a lot there. Mostly, we ran out of money.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. But I learned a lot of lessons, obviously, about running. But that was the main reason.
SPEAKER_04: And at some point you get a call from Mr. President.
SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm. I got a call from then nominee, Democratic nominee Joe Biden. He, we FaceTimed. It was during the height of COVID.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And he asked me to be his running mate. And it was a great honor. And I was honored to do it.
SPEAKER_00: Did you have any inclination before that moment that he was going to ask you? Had there been like a side conversation?
SPEAKER_04: So, no, I had an interview. I had an interview. And it was like something out of a spy movie where I had my assistant drove me to one location. This was in D.C. And then it was a mall. And then I got out of that car to get in another car that was, because the press were watching everything to see who, there was a short list that was out, who was going to be. So we had to do this whole clandestine thing. And then I got into another car being driven by one of his assistants. And then we went to this, you know, this very circuitous route to a house. And then through the back door, the windows were closed. The shades were closed. And I had my interview. Went back to, because Doug and I were in our apartment in D.C. because I was senator at the time. And, again, high to COVID. Then the vans, the press vans were parked out front. And we would just want to go for a walk. Remember, during COVID, everyone just wanted to get some fresh air. They must have thought we couldn't see them. They were like an unmarked vans. So from time to time, I just walked up to him and said, look, we're going to get some coffee. Can I bring you anything back? We'll be right back. Right? The day I actually got the call from Joe Biden asking me to run with him was the same day earlier where one of my girlfriends has a house in Virginia. And it was the end of summer. And she had all these beautiful end of summer tomatoes. I like to cook. She brought me this big box of tomatoes. And I was going to make a bunch of marinara and freeze it. Then I get the call from him. I said, yes, of course. And I don't know, it felt like within seconds, a parade of people walk into our apartment with a parade of binders, sit down. Everyone's in masks to tell us, OK, this is what the campaign is going to be. And because I hate to waste food, every one of them walked out with me handing them tomatoes as they left.
SPEAKER_00: I'm so intrigued to know, I've done many interviews in my life. I've been in a couple of interviews myself. How does someone get interviewed to be the vice president? Like, what are the questions one is asked?
SPEAKER_04: Well, having been in the position of both being the interviewer and the interviewee, it really, as much as anything, comes down to chemistry. Because by the time that that interview is happening, it's usually narrowed down to about three people. So all the vetting has been done. I mean, the vetting, I had such a truncated experience when I was running for president of just a couple of weeks. But I think Joe Biden took like nine weeks to make a decision. And so there's vetting. When I was being vetted for vice president, I had a, I don't know, nine-hour interview with a lawyer going through everything, everything. My taxes, my professional record, everything that was everything, everything, everything. I mean, talk about a colonoscopy. Oh, yeah. Because it was just virtually, that's kind of what it was. And so when all of that has been done, and it's kind of green light, green light through that, then it's about sitting down and just deciding, because it is going to be a partnership, right? And it has to be. It has to be where you feel that you can trust someone. You could work with them. You are, you're doing it for the same reasons.
SPEAKER_00: Was it what you thought it was going to be? Being vice president?
SPEAKER_04: I didn't know exactly what it would be because there's nothing that can compare to it. I mean, I was the 49th vice president of the United States. There have only been 48 before me, right? And I don't think anything can truly prepare you for what it is because it is a very unique position where you are, again, you are number two in command. You, so the seriousness of the responsibility is that. I give all credit to now the late President Jimmy Carter, who decided when he was president, having come off of Kennedy and Nixon and everything, he decided that the vice president should be given greater responsibilities than had been the case. Because, God forbid, something happens to the president, there should be a smooth succession. And so Walter Mondale was his vice president and was the first to have an office in the West Wing
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