Max Verstappen's END OF SEASON REVIEW! | Talking Bull

Just the turnaround that we had as a team, I mean, it's something that I personally also didn't expect.

I think not many people expected that.

For the first 14, 15 races, I personally never thought about the championship.

You need to sleep at the same time.

Yeah, but I also need to go faster, so you can sleep when you're dead.

I mean, people in general take life way too serious.

Stress is very bad for you, and you're going to die sooner if you have a lot of stress.

So I'm going to be 250 years old.

Don't ask that many stupid questions.

Because if you ask me a stupid question, you get a stupid answer.

Hello, and welcome to the Talking Bull podcast powered by ArvaTrade.

We are here at the Oracle Rebel Racing campus.

I am your host, Nicola Hume, as always, joined by Tomo McCluskey.

Hello.

We didn't plan our outfits, by the way, that was a total fluke.

Yeah, secret coordination going on there.

But we did phone ahead with the Trader match with Max Verstappen.

Yeah, you guys did very well as well.

Yeah.

Love it.

Love it.

It's not sponsored at all.

No, no, no.

I mean, we just all text and went, let's wear these trainers.

Well, you said something white.

I was like, sure.

Yeah.

How are you?

Yeah, very well.

I want to kick off with a question that's been bugging me for a long time.

The driver's dinner.

Yeah.

When you're in Abu Dhabi, you go out for a lovely dinner, all of you together.

You've done it for a few years.

How do you decide who pays?

Well, I tell you, last year was very nice of Valtteri.

Actually, he took the bill.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So then, well, the drivers are joking a little bit like this, this year it's Max's turn.

I was like, yeah, sure.

But I was sitting on the opposite side of the entrance of the private room.

Yeah.

So for like most of the night, you know, you're having a laugh and then suddenly, okay, suddenly people were wanting to go.

And then we realized that Pierre already paid the dinner.

I see.

The bill came and you went to the toilet.

Is that basically what you're telling us?

No, I was drinking my gin tonics on the other side.

You avoided the bill.

So I guess next time before I enter, I have to tell them that at the end of the night, the bill is for me so that I can actually finally pay it.

Right.

So if it comes down to you paying the bill, are you just like, just tap water all around?

No, no, no, no.

Just like set menu, 40 quid.

No, I'm normally very generous with these kind of things.

So, yeah, I just didn't get to pay yet.

But I'm sure that we have another dinner next year.

Yeah.

You've still got a chance to pay.

I'm sure you'll get it done eventually.

Yeah, I will get there eventually.

Yeah, eventually, eventually.

Maybe 27, maybe 28.

I was wondering if everyone throws their bank cards in the middle and then the waiter picks.

No, I remember that happened once when I just started, like 2015 or 2016.

I mean, that is a bit of a poor look.

So it's better to just one guy committing to it.

And of course, you don't let a rookie pay.

That's quite obvious.

Yeah, but that would be funny if you did it.

Yeah, but to everyone except the rookie.

Yeah, that's true.

Get Ezek to pay next year because he won't be a rookie anymore.

That's true.

Yeah, yeah, maybe.

I think it always starts from the more experienced drivers.

And fair enough, fair enough.

Well, look, Max, end of the season 2025 is done.

Let's just keep it short.

How do you reflect on the year?

Decent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, not a great first half.

Let's say that a lot of ups and downs, but I think our second half has been fun.

I mean, we've been consistently on the podium.

We've won really cool races.

And I think, yeah, just the turnaround that we had as a team, I mean, it's something that I personally also didn't expect.

I think not many people expected that, but I'm very happy, of course, with the second half, of what we have achieved there.

Yeah.

It was really nice to hear your radio message at the end of Abu Dhabi that you were like, please don't be disappointed.

This has been an incredible season.

You were 104 points behind and you finished two points between you and Lando.

That catch up was incredible.

As a fan of yours, I was that person that after every race, I was then on chat GPT to try and work out the mathematics of you being able to get this championship.

She was in the WhatsApp group.

She was just sending loads of these different permutations and everything going, guys,

this is how we can do it.

It's fine.

It was incredible to watch.

No, it was.

And that's why also when I crossed the line, I personally wasn't too disappointed because I think in the middle of the season, it felt like the championship was not on at all.

You know, so to be back in that fight all the way till the end, to lose it by two points, at the end of the day, it also doesn't matter.

If you lose it by one point or 20 or 50, you don't win it.

So it's as simple as that.

That's why for me, yeah, I don't dwell on these kind of things.

But it's quite unique and it must have been quite nice in a way to not only be racing at the front end, at the sharp end of the grid, but also be able to just be so relaxed and calm because I guess it felt like there was nothing to lose.

Yeah, because I mean, there's a difference when you're constantly fighting for the championship throughout the year and then lose out by two points.

That's different.

That's not nice.

But for the first 14, 15 races, I personally never thought about a championship in my head.

So everything that came after was just a bonus.

And then, yeah, eventually it turned out to be that close.

But yeah, this is the dream way to do it, isn't it?

Because there's not really that stress and that.

And if you had nipped it, it would have been amazing, but you didn't, it's fine.

I always said, you know, four is great.

Five is a little bit nicer, but at the end of the day.

Oh, we've seen all of your interviews.

You are so quotable this year.

So it's like, whatever.

I mean, I still, you know, go home or go on holiday afterwards, still the same.

But I do think that's a bit of a superpower of yours that, you know, after 2021, where you got that first title won, you've said it time and time again, this is all just a bonus now.

And it's quite difficult to believe as a fan.

But then when we see your reaction after, you know, losing by such a small margin, it's like, yeah, you are actually just taking it.

I mean, people in general take life way too serious.

Yes, I agree.

And especially also with your profession.

I mean, yeah, it is super important to be successful and, I mean, to do a good job.

But at the end of the day, I mean, you do that to what, maybe 40?

I mean, that's not even the average, right?

So I need some extraordinary drivers that stay in it a little bit longer.

But after that, you still have a lot of years to enjoy or do something else in your life.

And then honestly, it doesn't really matter what you have done.

Like when I'm going to be 50 years old, 60 years old, do you think I care if I've won four or seven?

I mean, what is that going to matter to my life?

You know, I'm still going to order the same drink.

I'm still going to eat the same food.

Still going to be drinking gin and tonic, yeah.

Yeah, you know, so it's not going to change what I'm going to do after in my life.

So that's why I try to also just look at it a lot more in like a relaxed way.

Yeah.

Just don't stress about it.

Stress is very bad for you.

Yeah.

And you're going to die sooner if you have a lot of stress.

So I'm going to be 250 years old.

I love this so much.

Yeah.

What I have loved this year is that even though you didn't quite get the championship, in everyone's opinion, all of the headlines is that this has been your strongest season yet.

Because you came from so far behind and then you smashed it.

But also at the same time, you're gaining more fans.

There have been fans that maybe weren't rooting for you in previous years that have been rooting for you this season.

So how does that feel?

Yeah.

I mean, surprising.

You've become the underdog.

Yeah.

I think naturally, of course, with an underdog role, people will start to support you a bit more.

But I guess maybe they finally start to realize who I am.

Yeah.

Who I really am.

Yeah.

So I've been saying this for so long.

My mom, too.

Literally, everyone's going, I'm not a fan of Max.

I'm like, you don't know what he's like because he's amazing.

And he's such a great guy.

To be fair, I think some of it is that and we saw this with Seb.

We saw this with Schumacher.

You know, people get that there's a degree of when you see the same person, you dominate in the sport the way you did in 2023.

You know, you'd won all these titles.

And I think now you reverse in that role.

It gives people a fresh perspective on who Max Verstappen, not just the racing driver is, but the person is as well.

And you're so candid and so open and so like just normal to talk to as well.

Like it's quite kind of refreshing in this media-trained empire.

Yeah.

Good or bad.

Yeah.

I think that's a good thing.

I mean, it works for me.

It's how I want to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Don't try to be a fake person in the paddock or whatever.

You know, that that's just not how I am.

And especially, of course, in the fun, you know, when you have a lot of success or in general, you know, you're doing well, it's easy to maybe forget about that.

But that's why it's very important to have always the most important people around you that actually do tell you if you're maybe acting a bit out or weird.

And I am very lucky that, of course, I have great family, but also really good friends.

Yeah.

What did you do after Abu Dhabi?

How did you celebrate?

Did you go out?

Or because you're like full-blown family man now.

Yeah.

Was it like, let's go home, make the dinner, get the kids to bed?

No, we had a really nice dinner with friends and family.

And yeah, just enjoyed a bit on the terrace until a little bit after midnight.

So it's pretty nice, you know, just with your good friends around you, just having a good time.

Yeah, because I've just got memories of your previous years just like partying hard.

Yeah.

I mean, I didn't really feel like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fair enough.

I mean, 11 years, Max, it's your 11th season you've just completed.

I mean, how much do you think you've changed as a person?

In what ways have you changed since you were so young when you first started as well, right?

You were a teenager, literally.

I mean, I think in general life, of course, you gain a lot more experience.

You become a bit older and wiser, I hope.

And then, of course, in the racing world as well.

I mean, from my also technical understanding of the car and just the way I work with people, the way you deal with people as well, right?

The relationships that you build.

I mean, all those things I think you've become better at over those years.

Was there a particular race this year for you where everything just clicked?

Well, I would say one that was very important for us was in Monza, where we finally, after so many tough weekends, we had a really positive weekend.

And then it just started rolling.

You know, we had a bit of an understanding of the car and we never really left the podium, which, I mean, that's already something that for us was already very hard to achieve.

So that was a big turnaround.

Yeah.

And we were, I mean, we have done another episode, which will be coming out at some point soon, with Isaac Hadjar.

And we were talking about the podium with him.

And it was so great to see you both up on the podium together.

You just absolutely smothering him in champagne was absolutely brilliant.

And that must have, it must have felt so magical for him to be up there with you.

And now the both of you being teammates.

Yeah.

And I mean, especially when, you know, you're a rookie and it's your first podium, those are very special moments.

And I think you should always celebrate that.

Yes.

And I made sure that I celebrated that with him.

Yeah.

Love that.

Well, not to forget.

Definitely.

I think, you know, you look at this class, this generation of rookies coming through.

I think sim racing and the ability to test on a simulator is a big part of what, you know, you advocate and talk about a lot.

And I think Isaac's a great example of a driver who's come through.

You know, he was in F1 Esports Challenger Series.

Like he was really, really good at that, as well as being great at karting.

And you've talked about, well, you talked beforehand about, you know, your plans for GT3 and for Red Lion.

And do you, can you divulge some of these plans for next year in the GT3 sim racing scene?

Yeah, it's becoming more and more serious.

I mean, we entered, of course, this year, not as a pro car, but as in the Gold Cup.

So, of course, one of the drivers that jumped in came from the sim racing world.

So, for me to immediately put him in like the pro car championship was probably a bit much, I would say.

But I always said we do compare ourselves with them in terms of lap time.

That's the target.

Now, we won, of course, the Gold Cup championship.

So, that's, of course, the one just below the pro cars, which I think was our target starting the year.

And I think also throughout the year, the drivers made some nice steps forward, really understanding also how to overcome difficulties with the car balance, you know, understanding how to go faster and optimizing qualifying and race stints and stuff.

And then next year, of course, yeah, we want to be in the pro championship, basically, with changing cars.

I cannot say which one yet, but yeah, you'll find out soon, but it's getting bigger and better.

That must have been, like, really nice to give, like, Lohan that opportunity for a podium himself, right? To live that dream, almost.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I mean, he's a great guy, great driver.

However, also, you know, he also still needs to grow in his personality as well, right?

Because you are in the sim racing world, so you're in the big open world and, you know, having to deal with so many more people around you and being part of a team, like a full-on operational team.

It's also cool to see the journey of that and how he's developing in that role.

So, yeah, it's very exciting.

And, yeah, it's only, I mean, it's still only the start.

I mean, my plans, of course, are still, I want to go bigger and bigger, but step by step, I don't want to overdo it and then go, you know, track back a bit.

So, we need to make sure that, you know, we build it step by step.

But, like, how do you find the time?

How do you find the time to do all of this?

You do so many things.

Yeah.

But, like, running and, like, coming two points away from winning a Formula One championship while also doing GT3, while also doing sim racing, like, how do you do that?

Well, I think if you're passionate about stuff, then it's also easier to dedicate your time to it, right?

If you have to, of course, do stuff that you also don't really enjoy, then it's very mentally draining.

Yes.

Yeah.

When it's your passion and you love what you're doing, then it's not really mentally draining.

So, what racing series do you dream about at night?

At night?

Yeah.

What's the first one you think of when you wake up in the morning?

No, most of the time it's about what I can change to the GT car in terms of, like, stuff that I want changed or optimised.

Yeah.

F1, I mean, I have so many people behind me anyway in the team that I trust and they do their job very well.

But, of course, in the GT world, it's a much smaller team.

Yeah.

Right?

So, and there's still a lot of things that I also need to understand better and learn.

So, I'll do that in my sleep.

I remember a few years ago speaking to Atsi, who obviously works with you on Redline, and him saying, you know, during red flags and breaks, you're in the WhatsApp group, you're in the Discord messaging.

Are you still that active?

Yeah, I'm still very active.

I'm driving a little bit less, like racing.

Sure.

Why is it a little bit less?

Because, I mean, the team is in a great spot and great drivers, great management.

So, they know what they have to do and I don't need to jump in.

I can drive if I want to, let's say like that.

But, yeah, I mean, I still, if, like, sometimes I'm competing or whatever, I can wake up in the middle of the night with some ideas and I do need to test it.

Like, I cannot wait for it.

So, then what do you do?

Wake up and turn on the simulator.

Like at two o'clock in the morning or something?

I've done that, yeah.

At 3 a.m.

Of course you have.

I'm not surprised.

Before I'm not surprised.

It's the most Max Verstappen thing to do.

Text to my teammate, wake up.

You can't put your phone on do not disturb if you're alongside Max because he's calling you at any time.

Absolutely, 100%.

As you should be.

You've got to set these standards, Max.

You've got to put them up high.

Yeah, but you need to sleep at the same time.

Yeah, but I also need to go faster.

That's true.

You can sleep when you're dead.

That's a fair point.

That's a very fair point.

That's a hell of a quote, Max.

I love that.

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I mean, you look back to when you first started in Formula One.

What do you think young Max Verstappen?

Would say to you, Max Verstappen, sat there now.

Could you see the guy that you were going to develop into?

No, because I don't think about this.

I don't want to know.

I'm not interested in it.

If you could give him advice, what would you give him?

Nothing.

I would want him to make the same mistakes or go through the same tough times, good times.

Because if you know everything in advance, it's really boring.

That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you learn from the mistakes as well.

And you get lazy as well if you know everything in advance.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

You learn most from the adversity in life.

Yeah.

Tough times.

And you need them as well.

Yeah.

Don't do that.

But sometimes actually making the mistake makes you not do it again.

Well, do you think, you know, your 11 seasons in the sport, what would you say was the season maybe you learned the most or maybe had the most struggles or most difficulty in?

Yeah.

2018, the start.

Yeah.

The first, what is it, seven, eight races, I think.

Just, yeah, making some mistakes myself.

And then you get into a negative spiral.

You try to push even harder and it all just, yeah, didn't work out.

And being really upset with myself.

And then I had a turnaround in Montreal.

And I have to say, I think from that day, that's really where it clicked.

And it went.

Yeah.

Because I mean, when we spoke to Isaac, you know, he's difficult first year in F2, obviously Australia for him as well.

But he said, you know, without those adversities, he doesn't think he'd be the, maybe the driver he is today with an Oracle Ripple racing seat in 26.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think so too.

Have you spoken to him yet?

At least you just saw him here before I walked in.

Yeah.

I said, did you enjoy your test day?

It looked like he did.

Yeah.

I was very jealous.

Oh, really?

No.

No, I was very happy.

Is that because you were like, I'm done.

Thank God.

But I didn't have to do testing.

I was done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's fair.

I was like, season's over.

The fans, we love how transparent you are about your feelings towards it.

Because what I would ask Max, actually, you know, you've been in this sport for so long now.

What do you think the media could do better?

What do you think the fans could maybe understand more?

Because, you know, we see what we're shown.

We see what we're shown on telly and what statements the team's release and all of that.

But what do you think the media could do better in your like dream version of F1?

Don't ask that many stupid questions.

Because if you ask me a stupid question, you get a stupid answer.

By the way, we do have some listener questions that we need to get on top of.

Because I'm very wary.

No, no.

Let's find out.

No stupid listener questions.

So this is from Ashwin in India who says, which era of car would you like to drive the most?

Good question.

That's a good question.

Yeah.

We're going to answer that with a good answer.

Good.

Um, to be honest, I think like my, well, what I think would still give me like goosebumps watching is like the early 2000s.

Yeah.

The noise.

And they were so small as well.

Yeah.

Lighter and a bit more like rough.

Have you ever had a go in an early 2000s car?

Unfortunately not.

Is that because you can't be trusted?

Well, I would send it.

Yeah.

That's the thing.

Yeah.

But they need to be protected.

Yeah.

So probably.

Because they're only used for like show runs and stuff and you've got to be wary of the parts.

But like a nice V10 engine.

I mean, they sounded so beautiful.

Yeah.

At Goodwood, hearing them go up the hill was just, oh, it just goes through your body.

It's amazing.

So important.

Right.

Question from Chris from the USA.

What will you miss least about racing in the ground effect era?

The stiffness of the cars.

Like you had to run them, of course, very low and to the ground.

And for our backs and everything, it was quite tough.

Like cornering five and a half G on average.

But in some tracks, because it was a bit bumpy or whatever, and then the cars being so low to the ground, you bottom out so aggressive that, for example, in Austin, I would hit like nine G, vertical load.

Nine G?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Vertical load.

So that is really not nice for your spine.

No.

No.

And your neck.

Everything was always like blocked.

And we trained for it.

And I know it's part of racing, but that, for me, is a little bit too extreme.

Yeah.

Oh, this is from Harsh in the UAE, who says, what's the one goal that you have before you retire from F1?

I don't think he's wishing that you retire, but he's just, you know, wondering what you want to achieve.

Yeah.

And if one, I mean, you've done a lot.

I don't know.

You've done all right.

There are not many goals.

It's just like, I want to continue, of course, trying to win.

Yeah.

Have fun as well with the people that I'm working with.

Yeah.

So the goal is basically trying to stay competitive, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice.

I like it.

I really like this question.

I hope you will too.

Considering everything that happened in your career so far, what is one race you would like to live again?

Oh, that's a great question.

That's a good question.

Probably the easiest one.

Not Brazil 2016.

No, no, not that one.

No, that was, that was crazy.

Probably got a heart attack with some of the, some of the, like, really tough ones.

Maybe a nice, easy Monaco.

Or an easy Monza.

And then you could just go back home to your own bed.

Yeah, but the Monaco ones, being on a street circuit, you always have to stay quite focused.

So, no, I don't know, any, pretty much any race in 23.

Yeah.

Monza 23.

The whole season of 23.

That would do.

Let's do it again.

Let's try and do it better.

Try and win them all.

Try and win Singapore as well.

What I know now, maybe.

Yeah.

I mean, imagine doing an Invincible and just winning every single race.

I mean, that would be insane.

It's possible.

Yeah.

I wouldn't put it past you.

It is, but yeah.

We almost did it as a team.

Almost.

This is from Jason in the USA who says, do you have goals of helping develop Ford's 2027 Le Mans hypercar entry through working with them through 2026?

We haven't spoken about that.

We haven't spoken about that.

You can fly under the bus.

Easy.

I was amazing.

What happened?

I was more getting at like, oh, it's rewarding to win together.

But no, you can just fly under the bus.

No, but nothing's ever your fault.

It's fine.

Yeah, but I do, like you said, I mean, to do it with like teammates, it's a very different atmosphere for sure.

And that's something that I definitely want to do.

Yeah.

It's such an epic place to go.

And it's less races.

It's not like 24 a year.

Yeah, that's true.

24 is a lot.

Let's look ahead to 2026.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Definitely.

Have you heard the engine yet?

How did you feel when you heard it?

It makes a noise.

That's good to know.

That's very handy.

Good answer.

How did it feel when you heard it for the first time?

Because it's all new powertrains.

Yeah.

I mean, it sounded good.

I mean, it sounded...

Like an engine.

It sounded like...

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it sounded...

I'd hope so.

I mean, of course, you hear it on a dyno, but it sounded like crisp.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Do you...

Nice.

I guess, I mean, I'm not sure they actually develop on the noise, but I mean, it made a good noise.

Yeah.

Good.

And I guess when it's...

I mean, it's not a V10, but...

No.

It's all right.

And when it's on track and it's at speed, it's going to sound...

I guess.

I hope so.

So now we're done for the year.

I want a good answer to this, please.

What are you looking forward to over the break that's not eating, sleeping or drinking?

What are you looking forward to and what are you going to be doing?

Besides the obvious, spending time with family, which is always super important when you're away for that long.

First Christmas with Lily as well, isn't it?

Yeah.

So first Christmas together, then on holiday with some good friends as well.

Nice.

I'm really looking forward to that, first of all.

Yeah.

Like, I really need it.

And then just making sure that whatever I'm doing next year with, you know, the program like we explained with GT3 stuff, that it's all going to work out well and that it's well prepared.

That's actually what I'm looking forward to, to make sure that that's in a good state.

Love it.

Love it.

It's a good answer.

Yeah.

Thanks for stopping.

I tried to be serious there.

Yeah, I liked it.

Yeah, that was great.

Love it.

Very generous for your time.

Thank you so much for joining us on Talking Ball.

A pleasure.

You're welcome.

We'll see you again soon.

Yeah.

Is there anything you want to say to the Red Bull Racing fans before we wrap up and we let you go?

Thank you very much for sticking with us, even in a very tough season, I would say, especially in the beginning.

But at the same time, we're a team that never gives up.

And I'm very proud of how we here at the factory and our fans, of course, as well, kept it together.

And at the end of the day, we celebrated again some very beautiful moments.

So thank you very much for that.

See you next year.