ROSALÍA: The LUX Interview | The Zane Lowe Interview

I think the best fiction is the fiction that has this blurry line between what's personal and what's universal, what's detailed and what's abstract.

There has to be some sort of truth for me in it, but at the same time, I think it's much more about the other.

If you are writing from this place, then you can sing from this place.

I promised myself I was going to make an album where I was going to finish the thought, finish the song, go all the way until the end.

Motomami was minimalist.

This is maximalism.

So much to talk to you about this album.

Thank you for making this, I don't know if it's an album.

That's the best compliment that somebody can say, I think.

It's almost like a framework for this music that you've made.

It's so much deeper than that.

But we're in Madrid and you're causing chaos and you've lost your album here and you're running around, getting fined, sitting with politicians and doing what you should be doing.

Oh my goodness.

But it looked like you had a lot of fun.

I just wanted to go and see the Los Carteles, go see the lights, even go outside.

And yeah, but it's a fun moment, it's a beautiful moment.

You know, when, okay, now the album is finished finally and now it's about sharing it.

It can be discouraging sometimes how long it takes, but I think it's teaching me patience.

Each project is teaching me more patience.

Well, you must have had so much patience to just get through this process of making this album because there's so much in it.

Yes.

I loved what you said about Leonard Cohen and the idea of finishing a record in the three stages.

That area where it can just, you can just feel very lost in it.

Yeah.

It's no longer yours.

It takes a life of its own.

Yes.

There must have been many moments during the making of this where I felt that way.

Oh, yes.

Because it's been three years.

So all the things that can happen in three years, so many.

Yeah.

But also I love that Leonard is a big inspiration.

And I love that he used to say, which I would repeat a lot while I was making the album.

He used to say, forget your perfect offering.

There is a crack in everything.

That's how the light gets in.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that I wanted the light to get in.

And I wanted it to be called looks, how to make more space for the light to get in.

I love that you refer to light as seen through the cracks and not necessarily the light that's all around us at all times.

Sometimes we shield ourselves from the light, or the light can be too bright.

Mm-hmm.

But you're right.

The light that cracks in is different, isn't it?

Mm-hmm.

It's a glimmer of what's available to you.

It hasn't yet revealed itself.

Yes.

Yes.

The possibility, the outside.

Yeah.

And beyond.

When you're working on music, can you exist in a functional, societal, social way?

Or do you need to sort of consciously remove yourself from the normal light side of being a human and a friend?

Yeah.

I kind of, I think I kind of isolate.

But at the same time, I listen to myself.

I'm like, okay, it's been maybe a week that I don't see nobody except these friends that I'm working with in the studio, which I consider friends.

Dylan, David, which I've been working with for like six years at this point.

I mean, he's an amazing engineer.

Elliot, he's became a friend here through this project.

And so, yeah, I feel like I hang a lot in the studio.

It's a lot of hanging in the studio.

But at the same time, there's a lot of being alone at home, writing, reading, writing, reading, just one year of that.

Yeah.

It was an entire year.

I remember guys were like, we need you, we need to come back to the studio.

And I was like, I can't.

No, I want, I have to make lyrics.

And these lyrics are not good enough.

I'm going to keep working on lyrics.

I'm going to stay here working on lyrics until this is great.

And then more music.

When you were touring Motomami, you've been in this brilliant modern loop that we're all doing, which is like album, tour, Lucy, like a song, maybe collaboration.

Yeah.

It doesn't feel like that.

It's like you stopped that hard.

Yes.

This is what I needed.

I feel like I always do projects, find the excuse to study what I want to study and go through what I want to go through and feel like my heart is needing and it's craving.

And in this case, it was reading more and it was studying more.

So if I was not having a musical career, I would probably just be listening in the, in college, theologia.

I just wanted to like be studying theologia.

And that's what I kind of tried to like just study, learn more about spirituality in a, in a, ampliar, make, ampliar these horizontes of what spirituality is.

Understanding how sainthood is understood and, and, and conceived differently depending on the, the cultures and, and religions, different religions.

And how interesting is that, for example, in el entorno del cristianismo, there's a very specific way of understanding sain, sainthood.

But then there's equivalence in other religions.

So in Hinduism, there's the rishis, which are these maestros, sabios vedicos.

And de los vedas, después there's a, I don't know, the Xi'an, they are immortals in the Tao.

Zadikim in Judaism.

Los amigos de Dios, God's friends, they call it in Islam.

Like they, they're all around the world.

You can find different ways of understanding sainthood.

And that was so interesting to me.

I was like, okay, wait, there's all these stories about saints.

I was trying to pull from like all these crazy, amazing stories from all around the world.

I put a mapamundi in the room and I started reading hagiografías, just reading, reading, reading, reading, reading.

And I just tried to like understand where did they come from, which was the language that would be spoken there, what was the story behind.

So there was a lot of women like, that were extremely interesting to me, that they were nuns, they were poets.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to read about them.

I'm going to read what they actually wrote.

I'm going to try to explain these stories.

I think it's important to, while collecting stories about the other, I feel like then making songs inspired in that, like I'm celebrating and giving love to the other, to the otherness, trying to understand the otherness better.

It feels like nowadays, like everything is so divided.

And no, I want the opposite.

I need the opposite.

At least that's how I feel.

This deep curiosity that informs this music, it is a huge part of what is so immersive for us about it.

I'm always interested in how artists can move so deeply into quote unquote conceptual environments.

But it has to be about you.

It can't just be an essay about the past.

I don't think it's about me though.

I don't think it's about me.

These songs you don't feel are about you?

I think though, that it's an album that fortunately or unfortunately it will have pieces of me, little pieces of me.

But I think the best fiction is the fiction that has this blurry line.

There's a blurry line, like the sweet spot between what's personal and what's universal.

What's detailed and what's abstract.

Maybe what's implicit and what is explicit.

It's both.

And so I think that, yeah, obviously because I wrote it, there has to be some sort of like truth for me in it.

But at the same time, I think it's much more about the other than about myself.

Although there's going to be moments and specific things.

Journey.

For example, reliquia.

That has journey.

That has about, I've been here and I've been there.

But it's inspired in Santa Rosa de Lima.

And how her, sus reliquias are spread around the world.

So there's, there was so many like crazy coincidences while I was studying and learning about these stories.

Santa Rosalia de Palermo.

Hildegard von Bingen.

Vimala.

There was crazy stories.

Santa Olga de Kiev.

So many women that, yeah, that were amazing.

And that I wanted to kind of, in a way, channel their stories.

But I love the character studies that you've created on this record.

And, but at the same time, the way that you perform these songs, the emotion that you instill in these songs when you sing them.

Yes.

It's hard for me as a listener and a fan to not feel that you are feeling something deep within yourself.

Personal growth.

I agree though, I agree.

I think it's more internal.

Like when you get to Magnolias, I can't believe at the end that you're not projecting forward into the end of what's been a wonderful adventure.

True.

To, to put the perfect ribbon on it.

Right?

Kind of.

Kind of.

Yes.

But it's inspired in Ananda Mayima.

She had an amazing burial.

There were so many flowers.

Like crazy.

And apparently everybody felt so in peace.

Apparently everybody was outside.

Everybody felt so much peace and like joy.

And so for me, I was like, wait, this is amazing to know that that happened.

And I'm like, how, how would my, how would my burial be?

Maybe it's just about, please don't be sad when I die.

Just please have a party.

Yeah.

That was what, for me, what was I was asking.

And in the back of my, in my bag, I have a tattoo that is something that Manuel Molina wrote, which is my favorite writer in Spain.

My favorite writer in Spain, he said,

He's saying, nobody, better nobody cry the day that I die.

It's more beautiful to cry even if you cry with sadness.

So even if, okay, you're going to have maybe some sadness, but still like, just, just have fun, just enjoy.

There must have been a lot of times during the making of this record though, when you felt a very powerful emotion.

I can't imagine working for the London Symphony Orchestra.

Yeah.

I mean, that's how I'm controlled.

That was crazy.

That was crazy.

I definitely had chills so many times while making, definitely making vocals, recording vocals.

I don't think I ever cried so much making an album.

I don't think I've ever, ever, ever, ever cried so much recording vocals.

And I think that I didn't, I didn't maybe want to go through this before.

I was like, I'm not ready.

I know I had to do an album like this, but I wasn't ready yet.

How did you know, how did you know that after Motomami, which was a resounding success, one of the most amazing tours, beautiful high concept art, dynamics, just a lot of movement, everything.

I mean, you've got to be happy at the end of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How did you know that I have not gone deep enough?

I need to, like, not even close.

It's so different.

Ah, there was something that my sister said that stuck with me when I played Motomami for her.

What did she say?

Okay, so, we were in the car.

I played for her.

She pointed out this kind of, like, musical tourette or something.

This, this sort of like, kind of like, why do you have to destroy the song always?

Ooh!

Yeah, that's Billy, right?

That's my nonchalant.

Who are the ones you love?

Who are the ones that love your back, right?

The ones who get away with that.

Yes, that's my nonchalant sister and my best friend, which I love so much.

And, and she said that, and when she said that, it hurt so bad, because I was like, what are you talking about?

And I started fighting her, and I started being like, what are you talking about?

No, no, no, because you don't get it.

I'm trying to, yes, this makes sense, this disruption here, that, that, that.

But at the end of the day, it stuck with me, because I'm like, wait, why do I make music?

I make music for people to feel, right?

And maybe they're going to feel the most if I really go all the way.

How can I, because maybe I'm not allowing myself to go all the way.

Maybe I'm writing songs, but I'm not finishing the thought.

So I was like, I'm going to make the next album.

I promised myself I was going to make an album where I was going to at least try, at least try to finish the thought, finish the song, go all the way until the end.

And I think that in this album, it allowed me to grow as a writer, and as an arranger, and as a producer because of that, because of going all the way.

And not trying to just, you know, break the song from here and there.

No, like, this is the thought.

How far I can go with this thought?

In a way, you still retain some loyalty to that idea of being free with arrangements and break things.

And there are movements of the song.

But because you're moving in a space that has long been considered archaic or ancient or old fashioned.

The idea of working in symphony, Baroque art and inspiration, things that you study.

Yeah.

Like, remember how it used to be hundreds of years ago.

Yes.

But why can't it be as powerful today as it was back then?

And it definitely can.

And I think that at least I'm always, my feeling is always, I'm in service of the emotion.

So, yes, this album don't have loops.

And it's very intentional that it doesn't have loops.

That was kind of a rule.

We were like, we were not going to do no loops.

We have this in the back of our heads.

Even at the end of Divinized when it gets super frantic and anxious.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

There's no loop in it.

It's played.

It's played.

Or the vocals.

Even if there's like a repetition in a melody, still it's sung.

There's like the conscious decision of not using loops.

Humans.

Yeah.

So it's like, how do I go from point A to point B?

How do I, eh, como lo hilo?

How do I, como transito eso?

Instead of, from A to B, boom.

Next.

Yes.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Go through the experience.

As if the experience is the, the, the most important is the journey.

It's not about getting to, from point A to B.

It's go through it.

Let yourself go through it.

And I, I wanted that it was acoustic instruments.

And everything it feels, I think it feels like that human, wood, um, It feels like, it feels like the space.

Fabrics.

Yes.

It feels entirely immersive, like the space.

Yes.

Materiales, physicality.

Um, so at the end of the day, you have the sense, the feeling that there's a human in there.

There's humans in there.

It's made by a human.

It's about love and from love, hopefully.

Well, love is in every single iteration.

I mean, adoration, uninterrupted, unfettered, pure obsession.

Right?

Then judgment, conditional forgiveness, um, hate, anger, violence.

A lot of violence on this room.

Also.

Also.

Enough of what I needed.

I felt like I needed to be in it.

I think Bergheim, for example, but it's not a glorifying evil.

As a protagonist, it feels like to me, as a, as a, as a writer of this experience, either other's experience brought to life through your filter or your own experience, the mixture of the abstract and the literal.

Yes.

That in the middle of all of that, there is confusion about what it all means.

Hmm.

You asking if there is some?

I'm asking you if it was written out of pure instinct or experience.

Ooh, that's a tough one.

Um, I think it starts with instinct.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that later, there's a, there's this moment where you just analyze with cold head, you are chirurgic, chirurgico, chirurgic about it.

But it's pretty much, I think everything usually for me is pretty much intuitivo.

Mm-hmm.

I don't rationalize it too much.

I try to nurture myself with, um, whatever I feel like I need to explain.

Mm-hmm.

And later, so I let it happen intuitivamente.

If you nurture yourself the right way, you're going to be able to explain it, be the vessel and explain it.

And so later, I think that, uh, I start rationalizing it when I see what, what I'm doing.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I don't think I'm thinking what I'm doing when I'm doing it.

Okay.

Let me be specific about it.

Me and Christy.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

That one, it took me a whole year.

I'm not surprised.

A whole year to do.

Yeah.

And thank you for seeing it through because it's a remarkable piece of music.

But as, as a sentiment, a story, is it a generalized, um, appreciation or is it a specific appreciation about one person or something specific because it's so delicately written?

Um, I think that, uh, the whole project has that balance.

And definitely I found very, very beautiful, very, very inspiring.

When I found out about Santa Clara de Assis, San Francisco de Assis, apparently they had this really, really, really strong, uh, friendship and this string, very strong bond.

And that was beautiful.

And I was like, okay, let me, let me experience, uh, how to write about this, about this friendship.

How, how would that be?

And you have friendship that is similar.

You could create, you could refer back to your own experience in that way.

I mean, the whole album has, has that, has a truth on, on what I've experienced for sure.

Cause otherwise I couldn't write it.

And especially it's also in Italian.

I try to write first in Spanish, a lot, a lot, a lot of it.

And then I would send it to a translator and also would use Google translate.

So I would like, kind of like, uh, go back and forth with that for an entire year of writing.

Uh, it took me a lot of attempts in front of, in front of the piano of trying to make the aria.

And I would remember, like, I would talk with Noah and I would say, I want, I really want to make an aria.

I want to write an aria.

Uh, but I need time to study.

I need time to understand how an aria is, how an aria is written, how usually the structures are, or, or, and let's see.

And so it took me a year in Miami, writing in Miami, in this house in Miami.

I finally found it.

I found the, just improvising, I found the, the hook in the piano.

Very, very little, uh, notes with the left hand, just to understand a little bit how the chords could be.

And then I brought it to LA.

I kept working on it.

And then one day, finally, I got to the studio and I was like, finally, I have the aria.

What an aria, what I say, what I call an aria.

I don't even know if it's an aria.

Okay.

But, but it's inspired me.

Yes.

It's, it honors them.

The communication that comes through the record in multiple languages, 14, I think, languages.

But anytime that it switches from Catalan or Spanish into Japanese, it's very natural to the point where I had to look at the lyrics and be reminded that you was even singing in Japanese.

Oh, that makes me happy, man. That makes me so happy.

Because, because you made them your own.

So why did you choose to have that moment of self-reflection, the queen of chaos?

Why did you choose to, to express that in Japanese?

Because there's this, um, saint, she was called Rionengenso.

She was a Japanese saint.

And it was very interesting, the story.

Apparently she, she destroyed her face in order to be accepted, and to be accepted, to be como...

So, ella, ella, ella quería entrar in un monasterio.

She wanted to get in that monastery and be accepted in it.

And she destroyed her face in order to be admitted in it.

And that woman, I felt like the story was insane.

That was incredible.

Like, the, the, the, the level of sacrifice in order for her to achieve what she wanted.

And also maybe how, how a lot of times it's considered craziness.

You know, what's an extreme can be considered craziness.

Or can be like, uh, catalogado in that way.

Do you think that that was extreme, to do that?

Well, might to judge whether it's extreme or not.

I heard.

I think that each person has a different path.

And I'm nobody to, to judge of as extreme or not.

But maybe for me as a Rosalia, it would be very hard to do something like that.

Consider it maybe extreme for who I am.

But I don't consider it extreme that for her, she did that.

But in a way, the fact that you've gone ahead and made something so...

different to what you did before and you've done so much studying and learning in order to get there.

In a way that is, that is, isn't it continued mutilation every time you reject something you've created before in order to grow?

And potentially lose people in the process and leave the things that could give you comfort behind?

Isn't that just a form of violent change in a weird way?

Yes.

And please, yes.

Every day.

I hope that happens every day.

I hope that every day, um, identity, I hope that identity can always be something that it's, um, that it dies and burns every day.

And that every day you can choose who you are.

And every day you can understand who you are and you can change every day.

That's a discipline, isn't it?

Because, again, in your Substack, um, in your birthday post, you talked about the idea of wanting to stay in all the time, but then missing people's birthday parties and events and being like, man, I'm just gonna not get invited anymore.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, people are just gonna stop inviting me.

Like, there's FOMO here.

Like, what I'm missing out on.

So, I guess, I guess the question is, like, the idea of having the courage to move forward and leave all that behind.

But is there a part of you that always, that's asking, are you sure you've just achieved this and people want to see you and hear you like this?

Yeah, yeah.

But having doubt, it's a proof that you are alive, that what you're doing is true and it's alive.

Having doubt, faith, they say that faith, you know, that it's alive because there's doubt in it.

And I think here is the same.

You know that you are here, that we are here.

If you have doubts about if you are here, no, probably you're feeling that doubt.

That doubt is reminding you that you're alive, that you're here.

So, yeah, I think that maybe the sacrifice.

Sacrificing, I think that it's part of it. I accept it.

I think I'm kind of in peace. The more I grow, the more I'm in peace with the fact that I'm going to miss so many things.

I would like to spend the whole day just talking and vibing and being here and studying about this building and all of that.

I would love to do. But I know that I won't be able to. Maybe we'll just have this, this brief moment.

So I hold into it and I'm like, yes, OK, this is how much I'm going to see today and I'm OK with it.

I'm not trying too much, just a little, just enough.

But it brings to light the idea of what is the present moment. Can you sit in the present moment?

I'm always moving around. I would always be like this. So, you know, like I'm always, I want to always be moving, doing things.

I have to remind myself, it's OK, chill, calm down. So, yeah, I have a hard time being in the present.

How do you do that? Do you meditate? Like what? How do you find an inner peace? Where do you?

Desiring less. Desiring less. I'm not meditating as much these days. I'm praying more.

I'd give it all away. You talk about this on the album. I'd give it all away.

And you even mentioned some of the trinkets and things that we...

I'm learning. I'm learning. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's hard because this word teaches you how to desire a lot.

Yes. I don't teach you enough how to not desire. I want to learn more how to desire less.

And that's what you pray about amongst other things?

I pray to different things depending on what I'm lacking and what I'm missing more.

If I'm lacking peace, inner peace, then I will do one type of prayer.

But if I'm feeling in peace and I feel like there's so much that I have to celebrate, then I pray and give thank you.

I do more something that has to do with gratitude.

And the idea of searching for balance from something greater than yourself and asking for that from somewhere, what's at the top of your asking list?

I think that sometimes it's not about asking. It's about listening. It's about stopping maybe and listening. Maybe about projecting yourself towards something that is bigger than you and that reminds you who you are, that reminds you your path.

So sometimes it's about asking for guidance when you don't see clear enough. Sometimes it's about asking for blessings for the people that you love.

Sometimes it's about peace, more inner peace maybe. So each time it's different. But I find that I love this woman. She's called Alana Portero.

And she says that we should all pray even if you don't believe, even if you don't have faith. She says that even if your prayer is more like a pagan prayer, she says that's still OK, because you are projecting yourself towards what's beyond you.

And there's a way of getting rid of veneno, of poison. And I like that. I think that we all do carry some sort of poison. We all have questions. We all carry questions. We all carry stain, you know?

So I think that if you can, in a way, you can get closer to the source. You can get closer to your center. You can get closer to where you're supposed to be, who are you supposed to be surrounded, or what are you supposed to be surrounded with.

Like, if you understand that, I think you find more peace, and you're happier, and your life is just better. No?

Yes. Yes.

I gotta say something. I wish that I could play with you here, to the game that they used to play, El Juego de Pelota Vasca.

Right.

Because I feel like I'm enjoying this conversation so much, and you're so good at devolverla.

You are, though.

You are.

Two things can be right, and two things can be very wrong.

Okay, I think.

Okay.

I'm sure.

I want to play also. I would love to play more ball games. I don't know enough. I don't play tennis, I don't play squash, I don't play.

Did you ever play sports when you were a kid? At all?

I used to dance.

Okay, that's athletic.

I used to dance, and when I was 16, I used to play soccer.

Oh, you did? Did you like it?

Sister.

Did she beat you?

She was amazing. She basically was a defensor. She was defense, and I was constantly the one who scored the goal.

How do you call it?

Striker?

Yep. I was striker, she was defense.

Wow.

Which I think that is very much…

It speaks to your relationship?

Yes.

No, no, she strikes a lot, too.

Yeah, a bit.

But she defends me so much. I think I defend her a lot, too.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, that support that you have with family is incredibly important. I don't think you can make the decisions that you make, take the risks you take with the confidence that you obviously have, without knowing that there are people who are going to keep it very honest with you.

They got my back.

And have your back.

Yeah, they got my back. My mother got my back. She always supported me so much. My dad also, like, my sister, like, I'm so lucky. Yeah, I have a really supportive family.

Kind of fun childhood. A good childhood.

I think I know how I just get in my world. Like, me perdia mi mundo. Basically, I would always be in my head and be having fun and just… I didn't care a lot.

And music played a huge role in… Disappearing into that space?

I think that in a way, yes, because I would… I think I would dissociate a lot. And I think I would be singing a lot in my head. Like, I think there was a lot of… Melodies would get stacked. And I would stay in, like, repetition with that. And I wouldn't even listen what is happening or nothing. I would just be here.

And, yeah, I think that music has been always there, in a way.

Yeah. God is a stalker.

No, but it's true…

It's an impossible exercise, okay?

Yeah.

The first person trying, the first person of God in a song, it's impossible. That's why it's already from a sense of humor point of view, eh?

From a sense of humor.

But in title, what the title suggests isn't necessarily what the song says.

What do you think?

What do you think?

It's not literal. It's not like… I don't feel like, you know, you're doing a character assassination on God's obsessive… Obsession with humanity or with yourself. It feels far more like… Like, I'm not even sure who God is sometimes on this record.

Sometimes I feel like it's in human form. It's in a relationship. Sometimes I think you're referring to yourself.

I think it's an imperfect… It's in an imperfect way because it's made from a human and humans.

So, whatever it's made, human made, it will be imperfect.

Just that it's… and the divine, it's perfect.

So, yes, there will always be different ways of approaching it because I'm trying… It's an exercise, an impossible exercise, which is trying to put words and sounds into something that it's much beyond that.

And you said in your post as well that, you know, like… Again, to quote Leonard Cohen, I hope I never find the one song that we all have in us, right?

The idea to have the space and the runway to create for as long as God will allow you to create, right?

And yet, when I listen to this album, it's almost like it could be your life's work up to this point.

It feels so powerful and impactful, like almost a desperation to get it all out onto one record.

Does that make sense?

You're going so much into it.

That's interesting. I don't know what I felt, though, when I was doing it.

It's that I don't know if something like this could be repeated.

Right.

I really had the feeling that this just sometimes come maybe once.

I don't know if something like this could… At this, like, level of intensity, I don't know if I could do it again.

Were you emotional when you finished it or just relieved?

I was about to have a mental breakdown.

I really was about to because meeting the deadlines, there was a point where it was like, okay, if you really don't turn it in for the vinyl right now, the next week, you have to release it next year.

And I was like, something in me told me, like, I really cannot miss this window.

Even if it's so important, the… Los tiempos creativos, and I always respect them so much.

I knew this album had to come out in this year.

I know it was now.

Something in me told me, this you cannot extend forever, Rosalía.

Like, this has to come out now.

And then I pushed myself so much.

And I remember shaking all the time, like, because that's how much the level of stress was.

What was the last song you were working on when you knew it was time to start?

All of them at the same time.

Oh, wow.

It's always all of it at the same time.

It's always such a, like, process of… It's all simultaneous.

Everything at the same time.

Everything happening at the same time.

And I'm trying to learn how to exist with this uncertainty and all these things happening at the same time.

And it felt like I had to abandon it and I had to, like, just send it to be pressed in the vinyl.

And then I changed more things for the digital.

And some songs are a little bit different than the vinyl.

Yeah, because it's been a process through making this project, different stages of it.

How long did you work with the London Symphony Orchestra for?

Very little.

Very little.

Like, maybe three days or something.

Three, four days.

You did all of this in three or four days?

Everything was written.

Everything was arranged.

Everything was done with so much, like, precision.

For us to go there, get there with the… Las partituras.

Yeah.

With the scores.

And be like, this is exactly what needs to happen.

This is how we wanted it to be.

We're just going to try a couple, like, different intentions.

Maybe, you know, more pianissimo or less.

We're going to try this and that.

But we had to be very precise.

We had to be very much like, okay, no, actually, this should be metales.

No, actually, this should be just a timpani, doing this or that.

But it all was written.

Like, I remember Porcelana, the hook of Porcelana.

It was inspired in a piano type of bass, but with a timpani.

And, you know, we had that very much written.

And it was just getting to the studio and being like, this is the line.

This is the melodic line we need.

Boom.

We recorded it.

So, super chirurgical.

There are songs on this record which, if you wanted to take them away and individualize them and present them before the album came out or do videos too, that would go, okay, that is a pure extension of the rose that we know.

Right.

But you decided to introduce the album with Berghain, which is like.

Yes.

Yes.

Which I love.

And it's, I mean, it's so beautiful, but so front foot aggressive.

Yes.

It starts aggressive.

Eve's tumor ends it aggressively.

The statement is just so powerful.

So, can you speak to the thinking process behind saying, hey, I'm back.

Eat this.

Why not though?

Why not?

Why not?

I think that maybe it's a piece, it's more representative of the orchestral intention throughout the album.

And also I think that I really love when an artist does that to me.

I really like when an artist slaps me.

It's like it's doing something that I didn't, maybe doesn't move musically that I didn't see coming.

Maybe just, just provocation to some degree.

Just a little.

A conscious provocation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just a little, just a little, not too much, but I feel like the album starts gentle.

I have the intention of starting in a soft way.

So I think that when people experience the project and the album, they will have the gentle feeling that I think it's so present throughout the album.

But then, a way of saying, we are not going to do Motomami again, that's releasing Bergheim.

It's releasing Bergheim first.

It's releasing that and saying, this is what we, esta es la puesta.

And also, it's one of the most that are intervenida, the orchestra, esta intervenida.

So I think that it's interesting that, how much the sound is pushed in that one, the orchestral sound is pushed in that one.

And it has all the elements.

I feel like it has it all.

It has the full orchestra.

It has the full choir.

It has it all.

And I think maybe it's the way of saying, Motomami was minimalist.

Few elements.

This is maximalism.

Yes.

Like brutalista.

Yes, yes.

A lot, you know, big.

And so I think that Bergheim shows that.

And there's all the elements in it.

Named after the club?

In a way, it's, I think that I've always had the desire to go to that club, but I never dared to.

Same.

But it's always been there, Bergheim, Bergheim.

And then Bergheim means arboleda de la montaña.

It means a group of trees in the forest.

And I feel like we all kind of have these labyrinths in our heads.

These forests of thoughts that you can get lost in.

Ah.

You know, so it's like Bergheim cannot be the heart.

It can be your mind.

Bergheim, it's your mind.

It's everybody's mind.

The meeting of minds now that you've been able to establish with Björk, I feel like The best.

You are a child of Björk in some respects.

Mother.

Yeah.

She's my mother.

Mother, mother, mother for sure.

So now that, you know, you two have collaborated again and found this space to be able to work together again and figure it and build on this.

Yeah.

Let's talk about Björk.

I love her.

It's just the best.

It's just so inspiring.

The most inspiring human maybe.

Her and Pat is me.

They're my two favorites.

Yeah.

My mother's.

And both are so free.

And I think both are so irreverent.

Both are so, like, I think it's what's most inspiring to me.

It's how a woman can be, a human being can be so, so free and so amazing and so exciting and so, so many layers, so contradictory.

It's amazing the way they create.

The way they've been creating.

They keep creating and they still have that passion.

I saw Patti the other day here in Madrid.

I saw her performing.

She was performing horses.

That was insane.

That was, that was a master class.

Seeing her spit.

On stage.

With so much grace.

And so much, like, not giving a fuck.

Not giving a shit.

Type of energy.

I was like, wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's how I wanna, that's how I wanna,

Como quiero envejecer.

That's how it should always be.

Just that you don't care.

Reminding yourself to not care.

I think that's important.

I think there's a few mantras that I've had through this project.

Not giving a fuck.

It's obviously, no.

Que no te importa una mierda.

But that's important.

And then also, I had this tea.

Como cup of tea, sorry.

This mug.

This mug that I draw with my friend, Alexa.

And I wrote in it.

And she's like, write, stretch the ball, and say the truth.

Yes.

And that's what I was all the time trying to do with this album.

And I would wake up in the morning, do my tea in it.

And I would always read it.

And I'd be like, okay.

That's what we are aiming for today.

If pressure makes diamonds, why aren't we all shiny?

Yes.

That is a very powerful statement, at least what I took from it.

Especially at the end of that.

I haven't heard the song because I've only got the digital.

But I read the lyrics.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I'd love to know what it means to you, that statement.

Si la presión hace diamantes, ¿por qué no estamos todos brillando?

I feel like we are all, we can all maybe relate in a way in feeling some sort of pressure.

At least that's, or maybe this that I'm saying is wrong, because maybe not everybody feels like this.

But a lot of people that I have around, I can tell that in a way we carry some weight, right?

And damn how contradictory, contradictory it could be, no?

Like that if pressure can make diamonds, does this happen to us as humans?

Maybe it does.

Maybe, maybe there's some pressure applied from above that maybe brings the best of us out.

Isn't that the story of this album, of Luxe, to some degree?

You know, the pressure you felt at the end in order, the deadlines missed.

What you set out in front of you to try to achieve with this record, the expanse of it.

At least to me, I let pressure come to me.

As if I let that hand can pressure me until the point where I allow pressure to happen in my life.

Because I know that I'm in this mission of making music and I know that I wanted it.

I know that this is not as soon as gratuito.

I begged for it.

10, 15 years ago, I begged for it.

I wanted it so bad.

What did you want?

I wanted this.

I wanted to be able to be a musician and do it hopefully at the biggest scale possible.

And make the biggest projects and tours.

All of it.

I wanted it all.

And I knew that maybe that would be being always in this kind of like al borde del quebrarme, al borde of breaking.

And so that's where I'm always, I'm always in this, in this about to break, about to break.

And I, I cannot complain.

I can complain.

That's not true.

I can complain.

But, but I can complain, but I can, but at the same time, I, I try to not complain too much because that was my desire.

I asked God to push me.

And, and so that's, that's how I feel.

Cause that's always maybe brings the best.

How important was the arrival at the end of Motomami?

Yeah.

It worked.

Like I'm on the world stage.

People are interested and excited by what I create.

They seem to like me as a person and who I am.

How important was getting to that place for you to be able to make this record?

Hmm.

I guess what I'm asking is to your point, you couldn't have done this two albums ago.

I don't think so.

No.

And also I don't think that I could have sung how I'm singing in this album.

What changed?

The way I'm writing, for example, it's allowing me to sing in another way.

Also, you cannot rush things.

Yes.

And in order for me, in Motomami, I remember, I wanted already to be singing and pushing the boundaries of my voice, how I did in this album.

But I, I couldn't do that yet.

Why?

Because, because I've been thinking about it for these last years.

And I'm like, why couldn't?

And it's because the writing, I wasn't able to write in a way that I could allow myself to sing like this.

You need, there has to be an openness and a surrender that just comes, you know, that just comes like this.

If you are living like this, if you are allowing it to happen, if you are writing from this place, then you can sing from this place.

Then you can explain things from this place.

Because it's your truth.

Because it's your truth.

And maybe my truth in that moment, even if I had the desire that my truth was another one.

And I was in another point of my life and I was going, it was another journey, another type of journey.

And I, I feel like spirituality has always been around for me, you know, one way or another.

It's always been around.

And my connection with God, it's always been there.

It feels like when that crash of speed of two, three albums and Motomami was so stylistic and more materialistic, openly materialistic.

More grounded, yo creo.

Less searching the verticality.

It was more about, oh, the world is apart.

I'll take that, I'll take this, I'll take this, I'll take this.

Si, si, si.

Yes, like the world is my, I like what Addison says, the world is my oyster.

Yes, like, let me, let me just, you know, open this.

Let me open this.

Let me play with this.

Let me make a jewelry out of this.

What's behind this door?

And you'll give me this?

I'd like this.

This is.

Yes, yes.

Like, kind of like this.

Kind of like, I'm not going to try to talk too much about the contradictions that I might feel about being placed in this, in this, in this, in this mundane idea.

I'm just going to have fun with it and explore it.

But it is artificial.

And I don't mean that as a criticism.

There's a lot of artificiality that goes into this world.

Even the idea of going on stage and creating a connection for two hours is meaningful for those two hours.

But it's that the love is different.

It's not like love.

It's like a different love.

I get what you're saying.

But also, I think that anything that is extreme might be performative.

So being two hours exposed in a stage in front of a thousand people, there's an extreme in it.

Right?

Or, yeah, I feel like, I feel like anything, these days I've been thinking about, extreme femininity, it's performative as much as extreme masculinity.

And maybe it's just anything that is pushed to the extreme will always have some sort of, like, performativo.

I think everything's performative, isn't it, to some degree?

I mean, you know, construcción, no?

Always in how you present yourself to the world, in how you communicate to the others.

There's always some sort of construction.

And maybe an artist does that, maybe even to the more extreme, which is construir un avatar.

Construir una obra. Construir un momento, you know?

And then artists like David Bowie just accepted that.

Yes.

They were just like, oh, 100%.

Exactly.

I don't need to pretend that this is anything but shape-shifting.

Yes.

Or the same with Nick Cave, which I've been obsessed with during making this album.

I've been listening a lot, and I've been, like, listening a lot of Bach, a lot of Mozart, but also a lot of, like, Strokes, Nick, The Smiths.

But I really like Nick Cave because of that acceptance of I can be something that I'm not all the time.

I can sing a murder ballad right in front of you.

Yeah.

Scowl.

Yes.

I can tell the story in all of its layers.

Yes, it's theatrical.

There's so much theatrical, and accepting that, accepting that you are creating a fiction, and I love that.

I heard you playing a bit of The Strokes, actually, in your live stream.

Yes.

And something about the way Julian sings, and you can't quite make out what he's saying, so you have to lean in.

Mm-hmm.

I think he's so good.

I already told him.

I think that he's so good.

I love his writing.

He thought that I was, like, messing with him.

And I was not.

And I meant it, that I really like his writing.

And I think he's so unique, and I would love one day to write with him.

Because I feel like, you know, when you write with other people, they can push you to do things in different ways, and to understand writing from another point of view.

And I'm really interested in always learning.

But that must be open to you now that you spend so much time writing just from your perspective.

I mean, this hot luxe has been an exercise in pushing yourself as a writer to get to the truth.

A hundred percent.

Yes.

And I didn't try to write 50 songs.

No.

You know that sometimes I've heard that people, they, I've never did this in an album, of writing 60 songs, 50 songs, and then you decide which ones you want to finish.

It's like, that's not how I do.

That's not what I did.

I chose to do the pieces that I really wanted to do.

Like, let's say, an aria.

And then a song more inspired in Rabia al-Adawiya, which is this Sufi woman so venerada in Islam.

Which song is that?

La Jugular.

And there's, and there's an Arabic in it.

So, you know, like, I was like, okay, I'm going to do a song like this, and a song like this.

And I focus on this, the idea that I want to do, and I execute it.

And I don't try to make 50 songs.

I try to do 18.

And you just finish them.

Yeah, but you finish them.

Yeah, I'm finished.

You honor them.

You don't sit down and go, okay, I'm uninspired by that.

It's like, no, I must push through and see this through.

Yes, yes, exactly.

Not opening a lot of paths.

Opening this, as I was saying before, I'm trying to finish it.

Can you talk about the Jugular for a second?

Because that song is so powerful and so beautiful, and the ending is just incredible.

And it sits so perfectly in the album sequence as well.

Can you tell us a little bit about the story behind that song?

Yes.

So, this woman, Rabia, she used to say, she used to speak and people would write what she was saying.

And apparently, she would talk a lot about the idea of loving God, por Dios mismo, querer a Dios por Dios mismo.

Not because trying to get a reward, not because trying to do something out of fear.

It should be just por el amor, por Dios mismo.

And there's also, I think, something so beautiful when I've been reading more about el Islam, la cultura islámica.

And it's so interesting how this conception of everything connected.

Everything is connected with everything, right?

And I was trying to write and express that the best I could in the outro of it.

When I say, lo grande y lo pequeño, right?

And then the negro is too big.

Exacto, el micro y el macro.

And the juxtaposition of it, right?

And the stretch of it.

And that force, that tension between both.

It felt exciting to me how they, between lines, I could be pushing that, stretching that.

And I think it might be my favorite part.

Sometimes that feeling of lo pequeño y lo grande siendo lo mismo, at least it's something I experienced and I wanted it to put in a song.

It's clear you have very high observation abilities.

Even just what you said about Los Angeles and how the trees grow against the pavement.

I love that because it's so cool.

It's like, you think you won, but you didn't.

We will win in the end.

At the end?

We will win.

Yes.

And all the roots, you call it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a very powerful lesson.

It's such a simple thing.

Most people step over them or walk their dogs over them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it actually says everything you need to know, which is we are temporary.

Beautiful.

Yes.

And I like to not fight them.

When I walk in LA, which I would try to do here and there during the week, just at least one hour, I would just be like at night or in the morning, just walking and listening to albums.

I would listen a lot of albums.

What are you listening to?

Man, de todo.

But I was trying to study classical music.

Right, right, right.

Right?

So I would listen a lot of the classics.

Some Chopin, some Wagner, some Mahler, a lot of Mahler, Albeniz, Granados, Falla, lots of Bach, lots of the suites played by Pau Casals.

Pau Casals really liked.

And so a lot of cello, a lot of strings, lots of strings.

And a lot of Mariacalas.

Amazing.

A lot of Mariacalas, yeah, which is my favorite of all time.

And so I would remember, I would just be walking in the street, and maybe you could have a little bit of like the, ay, the roots, no?

Like it's annoying.

But no, later I would be friends with it, of the fact that they make me go up and then they make me go down and that I would see them and I would appreciate how strong they are and big and how amazing is that they just break the pavimento.

I really like when things break, they break something that it's not supposed to be broken.

And that's what they do.

I want to talk to you about Memoria.

Memoria, yes, yes.

Carminio wrote those lyrics.

Carminio is a great writer and I love that she used this fado traditional and she shared it with me.

She sent that and I was like, wait, this is so crazy because this is so personal.

Perfect.

This is the thing that I'm talking about in this album, you know, and how much you can forget who you were and who you are.

And also remember me and my imperfections.

How often people say when they're about to pass, you know, remember me fondly or think fondly of me or remember the good sides of me.

It's like, just remember it all.

Right.

And I like how you sing and there's a moment in that where your voice changes and it becomes a deeper, resonant experience.

Yeah.

It's really like in that moment, it's just a very powerful change in the way that you're performing.

Oh yeah.

What inspired you to do that?

These lyrics now after singing so, with the chest so open and everything, now there's a confessional moment.

A lot of times memories, we, there are memories that are real and there are others that are a little bit fabricated.

Yeah.

And there's a vulnerability in it.

Lots to them.

Yeah.

I mean, right?

Like there's both.

And maybe I was just like, okay, this is kind of a confession to say that there might be memories of my life that I might be more true than others.

And maybe sometimes I explain it in a way and sometimes I explain it in another.

But every time I explain it, in that moment, if I'm explaining it, that's, that's going to be my truth.

This is my truth.

And there's truth in it.

And I like how imperfect memory is.

And yeah, I think that it was just trying to have some dynamics in the song, where it would be a little bit more soft, lower.

I wanted to end with this, with this list.

Relic?

Yeah.

Yeah.

True stories?

Some.

Some?

Some.

Okay.

A lot.

Okay.

Maybe a lot not.

Who knows?

You lost a lot of time in LA.

Who knows?

That's fact.

Did you lose your heels in Milan?

I think some I've missed because I, yeah, I lose so many things every time I'm traveling with suitcases.

Yeah.

I've learned how to travel with just one or two.

I'm trying to be better at it.

Keep it.

Yeah.

And then, but then I'm fucked, eh?

If I lose the heel.

Lost my smile in the UK.

I've laughed a lot in the UK also though, eh?

Okay.

I did.

It's just that, you know, here and there it will be rainy.

And...

I lost my faith in the DC.

Yeah.

The sky was born in Buenos Aires.

Yes.

It's the most beautiful sky I've ever seen in my life.

The sky is so close.

The sky is like, you can reach it and you could like almost like...

The ceiling's like that.

You could eat it.

Yeah.

You could take the clouds and save it with you.

You could, you know, like the sky is crazy there.

The colors and the proximity.

I cried in Japan.

I love Japan.

Yeah.

And Japan...

Oh, Japan put me in my feelings.

Japan is like this juxtaposition between playfulness and like...

Whoa!

Un parque de atracciones.

Like an amusement park.

Uh...

Whoa!

This, that colors.

So much...

Um...

Como se dice?

Stimulation.

But I find it calming.

From my sense.

Yes.

But also that.

Calming also to a point where it's...

You're gonna...

You're gonna be in touch with that sadness that you didn't wanna face.

Or that whatever.

That nostalgia.

That whatever.

It's gonna come out.

You're not gonna be able to fight it.

That's how powerful Japan is.

We are finishing this conversation in Madrid.

Yeah.

There's a lousy love out there somewhere in Madrid.

Ay, Dios mío.

Ay, Dios mío.

I'm leaving it.

I had...

I had a...

Una...

Una historia de amor aquí.

Mm-hmm.

Uh...

A tough one.

A tough...

Tough love.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You are no saint, but...

I'm just a...

I'm just a human.

I'm just Rosalia.

But you're blessed.

But I have so much blessings in my life.

Mm-hmm.

That I...

That I always...

Me siento agradecida.

That I'm so grateful for.

Yeah.