Interview Quotes

Defense of the Liberal World Order and Open Societies

"And my final point, if we want to preserve the liberal world order, we need to give agency to those countries around the world which feel that the current order was built 80 years ago in the image of the West and especially the United States."

— Speaker 02 • 00:10:42

"So give more power to the rest of the world because I still think that there are more multilateralists in this world than there are transactionalists."

— Speaker 02 • 00:11:20

"So this is the big idea of the book and in many ways a defense of the liberal world order and of course of open societies as well."

— Speaker 02 • 00:11:40

Values-Based Realism and Dignified Foreign Policy

"And it's that in foreign policy it's important that you deal with a world that exists, not what you want to exist."

— Speaker 02 • 00:18:20

"And for that framework I then came up a few years back with this concept of values-based realism which essentially means that you stay true to your values."

— Speaker 02 • 00:19:00

"Democracy, in my case democracy, freedom, human rights, fundamental rights, protecting minorities, rule of law, supporting the international world order. But at the same time you're realistic that you cannot solve all the world's problems like conflicts or climate change or AI only with like-minded countries."

— Speaker 02 • 00:19:30

"So you need to come together somewhere in a place to deal with it."

— Speaker 02 • 00:21:10

"Well, a good starting point in my mind is another instrument I try to outline there which is dignified foreign policy."

— Speaker 02 • 00:23:50

"In other words, you have to behave towards the people that you want to work with in a respectable way, which seems to be lacking a little bit in the world right now as well, I have to admit."

— Speaker 02 • 00:25:40

Lessons from Recent Crises (Greenland, Ukraine)

"That we live in an unpredictable world and there will be curveballs coming at you in foreign policy virtually every day."

— Speaker 02 • 00:28:20

"And I think most of us sort of worked in, in both of these spheres, so we were looking for instruments which would try to tone down the language by threatening escalation on, on different types of measures that the European Union has."

— Speaker 02 • 00:31:30

"The good one was that we would get an off-ramp and then a process which would strengthen Arctic security. A bad one would be an escalation in tariff wars, and an ugly one would be a declaration of military intervention in Greenland."

— Speaker 02 • 00:32:30

"And I think in the past three to four days, where we pretty much worked around the clock with Mark Rutte and Juna Stöhr and American senators and others, we were able to escalate to de-escalate and end up in zone number one."

— Speaker 02 • 00:33:30

"But, you know, we were able to deal with it short term, and now we have to have a look what we come up with long term."

— Speaker 02 • 00:34:50

"So, what do you think, the short term lesson is that you need a mix of showing that you're serious by filling the vacuum, both militarily with threatening to use countermeasures. And frenetic diplomacy. It's just, you just have to work the phone, and you have to do it behind the scenes."

— Speaker 04 • 00:35:10

The Future of European Sovereignty and Integration

"The first, just general observation is, people don't realise this. Finland is actually the only Nordic country which is 100% EU member, in the sense that we are in the EU. No opt-outs."

— Speaker 02 • 00:39:00

"So what's my advice to my European friends? That is to say that don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

— Speaker 02 • 00:41:30

"So I think be pragmatic, use the value space, be true to your own values. So that means that you look for places where you can cooperate with the United States and the current administration."

— Speaker 02 • 00:42:30

"But when you do that, realize that there are going to be areas where you're simply going to disagree. And you can tell that either publicly, which some people do, or then privately, which I do."

— Speaker 02 • 00:44:50

"So I did my PhD on flexible integration. So the concept and idea that not everyone needs to do everything at the same time."

— Speaker 02 • 01:48:00

"So my big thinking here is that there's nothing that unifies Europe more than pressure. And now that pressure is coming from both the East and the West. And this means that European Union enlargement has become strategic and existential rather than legalistic and juridical."

— Speaker 02 • 01:50:50

"So instead of you negotiating 35 chapters and 100,000 pages of a key communautaire, you are granted membership. And then you start getting the rights of that membership as you close these chapters. And I think that could be a way out for Ukraine."

— Speaker 02 • 01:53:30

"But I think it would be a travesty and strategic geopolitical mistake if Ukraine were not members of the European Union."

— Speaker 02 • 01:56:20

The Ukraine War and Russia's Strategy

"So on the peace process, I'm carefully optimistic in the sense that ever since, to be honest, Jared Kushner came in, the process became much more concrete."

— Speaker 02 • 01:10:00

"Now, my second point is that there seems to be a narrative that Ukraine is losing this war. And I simply don't buy that. And we have enough information and intelligence to back this up as well."

— Speaker 02 • 01:12:40

"Number two was to prevent NATO enlargement. Well, Finland and Sweden joined because of Russia's war of aggression. And that basically doubles the border of NATO with Russia. So another failure."

— Speaker 02 • 01:14:30

"So, you know, don't buy into this narrative that Russia is somehow winning this war."

— Speaker 02 • 01:17:00

"Russia has to continue the war because this war is too big for Putin to fail."

— Speaker 02 • 01:19:50

"This is my big worry."

— Speaker 02 • 01:20:40

"So what do we need to do? We continue to support Ukraine. We continue to put pressure on Russia. That's the only way in which we can get a deal."

— Speaker 02 • 01:21:00

"So, have faith. Ukraine is going to win this war."

— Speaker 02 • 01:22:50

The Nuances of Diplomacy and Public vs. Private Action

"And that's where diplomacy comes in. And I think we look at diplomacy – and we should look at diplomacy based on two pillars. One pillar is your traditional state-to-state relations."

— Speaker 02 • 02:05:20

"The other part is personal. What kind of relationship do I have with the president of the United States or the prime minister of India?"

— Speaker 02 • 02:06:00

"For me, this is almost like a family matter or friend matter. It's a question of trust. I mean, some things you just can't say out in the public. But if you have a good relationship, then you can say them directly."

— Speaker 02 • 02:07:00

"And for me, that's not appeasement. Quite the contrary. It's respect or it's using dignified foreign policy."

— Speaker 02 • 02:07:50

"And then sometimes we use the public arena for diplomacy. And it is an extremely important tool in foreign policy."

— Speaker 02 • 02:08:20