Ed Sheeran - The Zane Lowe Interview 2025

This is kind of like a sanctuary, I guess, for me.

My life is basically creating, performing and fathering.

I started up my high school band again.

What were you called?

Rusty.

This is the thing, now we're older, we get to actually live out our teenage dream.

I'm so fortunate to have such balance.

Like, it really feels like I could do this forever.

I'm a ginger-haired singer-songwriter with a small guitar who would play anywhere that would have him.

And it's just getting back to the core of who I am.

Wow, we find one of Time magazine's most influential people on the planet in the most rarest of environments.

Suffolk, yeah.

At home, a rare moment for you to be back.

Oh, dude, it's so nice to be out here in the English countryside.

This is kind of paradise.

Yeah, I got this when I was 21.

It was like the first thing that I bought.

My mum was basically like, you have to buy property.

Smart.

Because it might all go tomorrow.

So I got this and I've just sort of expanded it over the last 13 years.

But these trees are only, I planted these in 2013.

And they were like saplings.

There's like 14,000 of them now.

And it's going to be a proper forest soon, which is cool.

That's a nice feeling to just be able to walk.

I mean, there must be times when you just walk around here and you absorb all of that and you allow yourself the opportunity to take that in and be like, look, this isn't just a property or a house I bought and is what it is.

And one day I'll trade it or move on.

This is like, someone else will inherit this at some point, right?

Or enjoy this forest and you planted this shit.

I don't know.

This is kind of like a sanctuary, I guess, for me.

It's like, I know that there's obviously massive fences and, you know, intimidating security guards and stuff.

But once you're in, it's so calm and so safe.

And yeah, I love it.

It's where, you know, I've, from every tour, come back here and decompressed and made most of my records here, written most of my songs here.

Where are the songs? Where do they show up the most around here?

Where do you find yourself most inspired on this?

Well, we had a phase where we used to rent country houses and build studios in them because I sort of feel like rooms have songs in them.

So we were doing that, building studios in different country houses for a month.

And then I built this studio up the road that has been great.

I've made the last two records there.

And yeah, it's just really nice to kind of commute to work.

And even like a day like today, it feels like we're going there.

I'm showing you my workspace.

And then after the cameras are off, you then come back into my family space.

And it's nice to have two separate things.

Yeah, it's the dream.

Look, I'm all into independent workspace and going to work.

And I love the work ethic environment that people create within.

I understand the inspiration strikes.

But I'd also like that thing that Nick Cave talks about, Damon Orban talks about where it's like, I go to work, you know, and for 10 hours a day, I try to go to work.

And I think there's something really special about being able to create that close to your family and being able to hear your kids run around and do all that stuff.

Totally.

Well, and also them coming in, like they come in, I bring them to the studio every day.

They'll sit and watch us play instruments on songs and listen back to songs.

And like, it's nice for them to see the creative process as well.

This is the pond you built.

This is, yeah.

I always wonder how ponds get built.

They always just showed up to me as a kid.

Like, there's a pond there.

This used to be just a plowed field.

Yeah.

And since we put it in the wildlife that we now have, like these trees didn't exist here before.

The water, it's a water space for animals.

We've got like dragonflies that live here.

And like, it's like stuff that never existed here now exists here because of this.

It's also beautiful, mate.

It's cool when you talk about having the kids come into the studio and just seeing them run around and making their memories as well.

And you must be at a point now.

You've developed so many memories of being on the road and playing in front of crowds and having so many incredible experiences.

But these are different kinds of memories, right?

The family ones?

Yeah.

The ones at home?

Well, also having them see the gigs as well.

I think like it's, you kept the apple.

Having them see the gigs and understand what I do.

Yeah, it's cool.

I think they're still getting their head around what I do and why people know who I am.

I think that's still like a confusing thing.

You're happy, man.

When I spoke to you in New York, you were searching for it, but you were in it.

And you were honest and it was a great conversation.

And I really enjoyed that day with you, but I could tell that you were still figuring out how to come through the other side to a place where the day was wild and open.

Yeah, it was a heavy year, but I think that I'm sort of reflecting on all of it now because I'm having friends that are having their heavy years now and I think that it just happens to all of us and it all creeps up and most of it starts happening at once.

You know, all these big life events start happening clumped in together.

So, yeah, I think I've been very reflective over that period of time and I'm super happy where I'm like really, really settled and really happy now and I'm in a good rhythm with like gigs.

I'm playing, I'm at home Monday to Friday, playing Saturday, Sunday, home Monday to Friday, and I'm able to like be creative, but also be at home and it's good.

When did you start to come through the other side of it?

It definitely was all of 23.

I guess like a little bit of, I guess probably summer 24 last year.

I think I got into a rhythm of tour that allowed space between.

I was only playing one show a week because we'd, 2024 was a year of playing places that we'd never played, you know, like going to play Croatia or Serbia or Cyprus.

It was, it was just me going, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't the best financial decision, but it was me basically saying, let's just play places I haven't played.

And I think because it was only one show a week, it allowed me six days at home in between to, I think you've got to sit with that stuff, you know, whereas when I saw you, it was just work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work.

And I was kind of pushing it to the side.

And I think things always like grief is obviously something that's always with you, but it does like soften with time.

And I think it was that mathematics or again, we were playing one show a week and I was doing the subtract shows on the, on the Fridays as well.

So I was doing my kind of cathartic,

singer, songwriter thing on the Friday.

And then on the Saturday I'd be doing these like massive shows with Khalid opening up and I'd be having special guests like Eminem and blah, blah, blah.

And every week was just new and fun.

And we were doing, I realized that the way that I enjoy doing promo is just popping up and doing something fucking random, like making cheesesteaks or something like that, you know, actually meeting people and being out.

So we were doing all this like fun stuff.

And then I was in the studio working with new people for this first time.

I was working with Blake and Oma for the first time, working with Ilya and Sarvan for the first time and kind of having my world.

I think Blake and Oma are just,

they, they're really tasteful, really great, really talented, but young.

I was going to say young energy.

It's hard for me to say that without saying, but they bring this youthfulness to it.

Well, and I've known Blake since he was like 15.

And I know that he's been a fan of my music.

Because he was Benny's guy.

Yeah, he was, he was the guy that got us coffee on Multiply.

And then he was Benny's engineer on Divide.

But him being a teenage fan and then being like early 20s working with me.

And I'm kind of like, well, what do you miss about it?

Like, what do you think that you would like to hear from me?

And him being like, definitely this and definitely this.

It just gives you more direction to kind of work in different styles.

In a slightly troll fashion, but also semi curious how Benny felt about the fact that you went to Blake.

And Benny's kind of segwaying away from music.

Benny's basically like we, I mean, the first session I did with Blake was with Benny start of 23 around that time again.

And I think he's very much taking a step back from it.

He's doing cooking stuff, cookbook stuff.

He's doing family stuff that, you know, he's obviously like getting married and blah, blah, blah.

He's definitely taking his foot off the gas.

And I think he's been so encouraging of me with Blake.

He's constantly checking in being like, how's it going?

I can't wait to hear the stuff.

And I think he's really proud of Blake.

Blake has been, he was, Benny was his mentor.

And now Blake is kind of the student has become the master in a, in a way.

And Blake's been hyper successful.

And yeah, I don't think he felt any type of way other than excitement and pride about it, which is really cool.

And that's kind of the way it should be.

I feel like if you're a successful, if you're a successful in anything, you've got to look at the next generation and be excited to lift them up rather than like bitter that you're not that.

Because the thing is, Benny can step into it whenever he wanted and still be that.

But I think he's, he's more than done it.

Let me ask you this question.

As someone who's been on top for so long at some point, and you even reference it in the opening song, in opening, we talk about, you know, I see, I see replacements below me.

And there's a sense of like, okay, I've achieved everything I want to achieve.

But there's a fire in me.

There's someone coming and they got a bucket of fucking water, man.

And they're going to start their own fire.

Like, how do you relate to that?

If Benny's coming out the other side and, and maturing in a way that's great, he'll come back to music in his own way.

Yeah.

Are you there?

Yeah, definitely.

I mean, I just take, I just take them on tour.

I just, I, any, any artist that's coming through that's, and, and there's been a new singer songwriter every single year since, since I started.

And it's always like, I've even had conversations with them.

Some who aren't even stylistically like me that are called the next Ed Sheeran, that it's obviously frustrating for an artist coming through who's like completely different.

That's what people miss, by the way.

They think it offends you.

It's really offensive to the new artist coming through.

Oh, it definitely doesn't, it definitely doesn't offend me.

I guess when artists get like offended by it, maybe that offends me a little bit.

It's almost like, fuck that.

You're like, wait, fuck you.

Yeah, no, no, but, but I found like every year there's an artist to come through.

And I think that early, early on, the first one was Shawn Mendes, and he was 15.

And, you know, he had teenage fan base on lock.

And I think I was, I was like, I can either be weird about this, or we can become really good friends, and we can be standing boards for each other, which we have been for like the last, I think I met him 20, 13.

10 years ago, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, 12.

I want to root for all my contemporaries.

And it's really easy to root for your contemporaries if you're mates with them.

Capaldi is another one. He's like a really close friend of mine.

That was beautiful, man, with having a glass to bring in.

The new songs are so big.

Yeah, we had a night actually, two weeks before that, he came to the final Premier League game of Ipswich.

And we had like two or three days together, like uninterrupted, where he played all the music that's coming.

It's like phenomenal.

But like he's, I really like him. I really like him.

I had this realisation the other day though, that in a year's time, or a year and a half's time, it would have been the exact amount of time in it than out it.

And yeah, I think it really affected me.

I had like, you know, people that I loved and trusted and were in my life for 20 years of my life that suddenly turned weird. And it's only now reflecting back on it, being in my 30s with kids, like people in their 40s were leaning on me as a teenager, asking for money and favours and blah, blah, blah, whilst I'm trying to like navigate that.

And at the time, you kind of see yourself as equal.

But now I'm looking back at it like, you know, I hang out with teenage artists who are coming through.

It's young. Like, it's really young.

He represents me that day. He said, man, I was damn near a child star when I started.

I never put it through the lens of being in a late, as a late teenager. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's weird to like hindsight, looking back at the way that people who are older than me now, treated me. And I think at the time, it was just navigating fame and navigating people turning weird towards me and wanting this and wanting this and selling stories or like trying to extort me or like all this sort of different things or even like lawsuits coming through. And yeah, it's only now like reflecting back. Like I'd never fucking do that. Even if I hadn't had success, I would never ever do that to a teenager. Fame is something that I guess you learn how to do it.

And you learn, like even like now I'm out with my kids, it's just conversations with people.

People just want, people want to feel seen and have, if you can't do something, they want to explain.

So if I'm out with my kids and someone's like, can I have a picture? All I have to do is go, I'm sorry, I'm with my kids. And then I think largely people get that. I, I, I've not really had any clashes with anyone when I'm out as a dad ever. But you do have to disguise yourself sometimes.

I mean, again, it's one of those lines in the, in the opening. Yeah, I do. I do.

What's a niche you're in disguise? Not to give the game away. You can always change it,

but what's a niche you're in disguise? Oh man, uh, I wear a ski mask and a, uh, I wear like a, uh, a zip up like tech, um, raincoat. And I forgot I was wearing it once and I was coming out of a tube and I saw David furnish and I was like, Hey man, he looks at me like this. Yeah. Um, no, yeah, I do. I can't, I can't, I can't really do it in the summer. It gets way too hot. Um, I did, I actually went to Amsterdam at the weekend. I got the train to Amsterdam and I did, I did ski masks the whole way there. Um, yeah, that was, uh, that was hot. I love opening,

man. I love, I love the fact that, you know, you, you lay out your story early on and you talk a little bit about where you've been and where you are right now.

And it's just covered that in the first minute of the song, right? Yeah.

Well, that song didn't exist when the album was finished. I think I listened to the album and I was like, it's actually quite jarring going from subtract straight into Sapphire, which is how it, how it went. And when we were listening back to the record, I was like, I think it needs, um, the way that I described it was like an acoustic sicko mode, where there's a beat switch halfway through. Um, and it very much was that I was like, start acoustically as if it subtracts and then flip into play.

But straight away, what struck me was that about a minute in, there's a note that you hit.

And it's the first time I've heard you leave it in. You know what I'm talking about?

Where you, where you strive to say something listening and you don't hit it.

Yeah. It's beautiful.

There's a lot of conversations with that, with, with Blake, because I think there's a different way for Blake to work. Um, but I would only really do one vocal. Yeah.

And I think, uh, I love those moments on, on albums. Like when I listened back to Damien Rice's O, there's one note on, um, Amy that's just wrong, but I love that it's wrong. It kind of, he sings it and it's, it just doesn't fit.

That's why I love Afghan Wig so much. Dolly was barely in key sometimes, but the emotion was always in key. And I, and I felt, I felt very, very engaged with the song and the, and the journey as soon as I heard that note, because I'm like, okay, you know, it means that he really means it. And then of course, as you say, the, the, the switch into like back into rhythmic mode, it's like, shit, you recapture that 2011 energy again.

And the fight, I mean, you, you're shitty, you know, there's, you're pissed off.

There's some shit. You're fucking vomiting some shit on there.

I was in the studio with Dave and, uh, we, that originally those lyrics were meant to be us going back and forth. So there was an element of like, not even peacocking, peacocking is the wrong word, but trying to like, trying to, trying to, trying to impress him because he's like one of my favorite lyricists. Um, and yeah, I feel like I wanted to be like, I can spit too. And I think that those, it then morphed into opening, but yeah. People forget that's where you came from. Like you said,

the migraines gang, you know, and it's like, yeah, people forget that there's a, I hope, I hope Gracious K likes that. I hope he listens to that and like, yeah, come on.

You know, there's a lot of life in those verses and, uh, it finishes with a really clear distinction, which is all I need is my family and a couple of friends and the circle is getting tighter.

Yeah. Is that a good feeling? It's never a good feeling losing friends. I think that the older I get, I'm less like patient with people. So I think when someone, uh, breaks my trust, that's kind of it. It's kind of like stopping believing in father Christmas, isn't it? Like you can't, you can't go back. You can't make yourself. Once you realize that one of your friends

isn't trustworthy, you can't like, I'm assuming the kids still believe in father Christmas in this house

though. Uh, yes, but they probably won't watch this. I'm going to be honest. They won't watch this.

I'm not offended. It's a young demographic. Yeah, no, I love the way the album starts. I mean, it's definitely for me is like, uh, it lays out the ground and then from there we're all over the world. I mean, it literally feels like you've been out there not only playing stadiums and going to places, but you know, the idea of you just picking a spot and saying, you know what, if I'm going to be

here three days, let me go and meet some people. Yeah. Well, and also like what was fun about that India tour is the only reason we did that tour was to shoot the video. I was like, we need to go all over India. We're going to shoot a little bit in every year and everything. So it was kind of impressions. What did you love about it? I loved that every hundred miles, the culture changed, the language changed, the food changed, the fashion changed, uh, the rhythms changed. Uh, it just was like everywhere we went, something else was more interesting. Um, you know, there's,

there's also, as you know, like talents there that have existed for decades that you would not know about. Like, uh, and I think it's just like a wealth of discovery and like movies and having someone being like, Oh, check out this movie. And you watch, you seen Om Shanti Om. It's like a really big Shah Rukh Khan movie, but there's just amazing songs and that amazing dances in that. And then like from there you talk about that to someone and then there's another discovery. It's kind of like, it's kind of like, uh, I think this sounds like a weird analogy, but like introducing Star Wars

to someone for the first time where you're just like, yeah, the fuck is this? Is Ajit Singh stoked

when he meets you or are you more stoked to meet him or is it a little bit of both? It was a little bit

of both. Yeah. Cause I went to his show first and we sung perfect together, but, um, but I'd heard, we were going to sing a duet of a song for a Bollywood movie. So I'd heard a bunch of his stuff beforehand and then we, um, then we met and yeah, I'll tell you about that at the, um, at the house cause that's a whole, that's a whole other thing. Yeah. I mean, how have I known you? I've known you

what since the start? So probably 15 years and all I see is millions of people loving your music coming to your shows, these, you know, gigantic numbers on the wall and all this much earned success. And then again, getting back to the opening where you lay out your store, you know, the critics still talk shit. And there's this sense of disconnection between like the reality is the success and the fantasy is this idea that somehow you don't deserve it.

The thing that sort of frustrates me with the, um, critics is I think that their mind has always been made up since day one. You know, what's also really interesting to me, I think it's worth

bringing up, not that we, we put too much emphasis on this stuff because prize givings are what they are, but it blows my mind that you haven't had that honor of the Grammys yet to the degree that

I would have thought you would have.

It would have been divide and shape of you. And it just wasn't, it wasn't. It was the same thing that happened to Abel with blinding lights and, um, after hours. And it just, they just cut them out the, the main categories. And I feel like same, same for perfect, like just cut perfect out the main categories. And I think if, if it was going to be, it would have been then. And because it wasn't then like, I've sort of made my peace with this. What can you take away from this? Because you're right, you can't focus on it. This is, by the way, this is such a like pop star thing.

It's not though. No, but it's not that because people watch award ceremonies and your fans want you to win.

And people like me who've watched you have enormous success don't understand why that isn't honored to some degree because the people have spoken. Because I think it's, because it is, the music

industry is a massive school playground and there are the cool kids and the uncool kids. And I've always been on the other side of, I've always been on the uncool side. And for the last 10 years of my career, I have, I've won awards, but they've been made up on the night basically, because I haven't won anything. And they're like, well, I have to give him something. So we'll just give it. So honestly, honestly.

But the artists don't listen to that. Look who you work with. Look at the kind of people that show up. Eminem does not show up. He does not need to, but he showed up for you and he continues to show up for you. He showed up at your show. Yeah.

You know, it's, it's like, that's one of the things I think that when all is said and done in the rare times that this may cross your mind, what do you take away from it? What can you learn

from this? How does it strengthen your resolve? Oh, mate, because of that, because every artist that I admire likes me and we get on to not just as artists, but as, as friends, you know, I get to sit in a studio with Dave and wrap back to back with him. I get to sit in a studio with Eminem.

I get to sit in a studio with gigs. I get to like any artists that I love, we meet on friendship level and artist level. And I don't think anyone takes into account statues and stats and blah, blah, blah. It's like human interaction and talent meeting talent. I think there's a lot, a lot of solace to be found in just the people that I fuck with, fuck with me. And I think that that's kind of all you really want as an artist. And the rest of it is noise. And I don't think like, it's obviously really lovely to have stuff, but I think the experiences in my life, like being on stage with Eminem means

more than most of the things that I've won in my career. And also for the longest time and forever

more, you know, um, knowing that you got that, that break because you got the ultimate vote of confidence from the ultimate voice of credibility with Jamal and SB. I know people don't remember that.

They don't remember that. That's how you got your break. Have you seen the pic?

That was a, uh, um, I did the divide cover, uh, Damien Hirst studio. And, uh, that's the same machine when Jamal died. He basically made a spin painting of him for me, which I love having it in the studio. Yeah. It's beautiful. He did these, uh, Eminem covers as well. Yeah. It's beautiful.

Yeah. That's why I like being in here is I can, I can tell that, um, this is a home studio. People often used to say those words, like it was a bad thing. I'm just in the home studio. I'm not in a real studio.

This is a real studio, but it's in home and it feels like it's home.

I don't like real studios, man. Yeah.

No, I feel like most of the ones in London are like bingo halls. And for me, working in a studio, I should feel like home. It should feel homely and like, uh, I don't know, less clinical.

Like this feels like a living room that happens to have a computer in it.

Yeah. But you can, you can hear the life on the record. I think about, I mean, some of the most personal songs you've ever written, I think about in other words, I think about for always two songs very specifically, at least from the listener's point of view and knowing you written from the point of view of being a partner and being a father.

I love that you like, I know this sounds so, um, I say this every time and it sounds so obvious because we're doing an interview about the album, but I love that you've listened to the album because there's so many times you do interviews where I feel like people like have heard the singles and then you talk about the creation of the album. Right.

That's kind of it. No.

I feel like I say this to you every time we hang out, but thanks for actually putting the time in.

Of course. Thanks for making it. It's beautiful to be able to, to still find ways to, to talk about the subjects that are every day for you. This is your life now. This is the stuff that really matters is your marriage and your, you know, your relationships and your, and your, and your,

your relationships with your kids. Well, and I think it's so easy to fall into pop star tropes of like, you know, singing about how your life is different and shielded and no one understands blah, blah, blah.

But actually like the crux of life are relationships and all relationships, uh, they're all, you know, they're all very in there and they're very different, but they're all very human. I've found that when when hanging out with Eminem, when he came on the show in Detroit, he brought his entire family.

And when you meet Eminem, he's Eminem and he looks like Eminem and he's got a gold chain and a gold watch and a hat down low and the beard. And then when you see him amongst his family, he's Marshall.

And you're like, oh yeah, shit. Yeah. You are just, this is you. This is you. You're a lad from Detroit who grew up here and your family lives here and blah, blah, blah. And I think that that with this and songs like, in other words, and for always, they're like very human things that you go through with your partner and all your kids and you think, and they're, they're stuff that I can relate to with my friends going through the same things. I'm very vastly different in other areas of my life and things that I do. But I think when you are a partner and a father and a friend, you share many,

many, many experiences. You know, there's great rhythm on the record is great.

It is a great dynamic energy, you know, from symmetry right through to, to, you know,

don't look down songs like that. But done a version of don't look down with a Hanuman kind, which is fucking, isn't he awesome? It goes. He's a dude. He's so cool.

He's such a good cat. I love his videos. I met the guy that made his videos.

Because they were all together. When I've met them for the first time, he's like, oh, cool.

This is my producer. He made the beats, my videographer. He made the video. And this is my manager.

I was like, do you guys always travel like this? I was like, yeah. I'm like, then you're sorted.

Yeah. You're going to be fine. Totally. But we've talked a little bit about songs like Perfect and Thinking Out Loud and these big copyrights that I think when all is said and done, when you're in 99 and you shift off this mortal coil and transition into the next phase of life, what will be the song that they put up, that they play on the news, right? And you've talked about, well, it'll be that one or that one. What song, if any, on this album, and I'm sure there is, do you feel like, you know, is matching up to that level of writing for you on this new album?

You know, is it Slowly? Is it The Vow? Like, is there a song where you're like, well.

Yeah. It's weird. Cause I would say in that conversation, it might be a song like The Vow.

But I think in the conversation of what gets played on the news when I die, I think it's Sapphire or I think it's something like Azizam. I think more Sapphire. And I think because of the,

like the feeling that I get when I meet people from the Indian diaspora in the UK or in America or in Canada, or even when I'm in India shooting that video and people are kind of like, do you know what this is and what this means? And I think that the fusion of the two, I didn't really realize it whilst I was making it at the time, but it feels super important. And I love how it's been taken.

And when I was in India, they're very much like Arijit is their version of me for the UK in terms of like love songs, singer, songwriter, vocal, blah, blah, blah. So I think the meeting of the worlds was, uh, it kind of was almost inevitable, but I think that it made the song what it is.

So I think for me, for me, it's definitely the most important song on the record. And I do think that it will stand the test of time in terms of, um, fusing Western pop culture with, um, with, uh, Indian in a respectful way, I think.

I like symmetry too. Yeah. Well, symmetry was the first one we did. Um, yeah, that was good.

That was good. We've done, uh, I think, uh, Karen Adjula has done a, I haven't heard his verse yet, but I think he's doing a version of that. But this is the thing as well. I'm just like exploring completely new, different world and cultures. And there are superstars in the same country with different languages. And it's that, that's super exciting as well. Just, you know, knowing that you can do like a Tamil song and an Hindi song and a Punjabi song and just that it's, it's cool.

It's a completely new world for me.

Ipswich, man, you got to play Portland Road again, which is amazing. Three nights. And, um, it was, it was really, you know, it was interesting how, you know, you opened the stage up to, to the people that had moved you and it surprised a lot of people like, okay, Westlife. Okay. This is a, this is a great moment for the UK. Great moment for fans of that band. But I didn't realize that that song was such an important influence on you. I knew that James Blunt was in your warehouse. I always thought you were more Damien Rice guy, but that was such a beautiful speech you gave about James Blunt and how he had ultimately been this enormous influence on you and how you had, you know,

just chased him basically. Yeah. Well, I think that, I mean, all of that has come from confidence in who I am as an artist and like I, and you know, the factor of like not being critically loved and not being cool, but knowing that by being myself, people like gigs, I would class a collaborator and a friend and I love and gigs is intensely cool. And someone like Dave and someone like Eminem and, you know, 56, like all these, all these artists who I grew up listening to that are cool, like me for just being unapologetically myself and open and honest. And I think that that plays into,

I was nine years old and I listened to Flying Without Wings of Westlife and I went, this is an amazing song and used to sing it and pretend I was in Westlife.

I love to hear that story because I think about like 15 years ago when you first came out, and I mean, in all fairness to you as a young artist trying to find your place and figure out who my audience is. I'm not sure you would have been that open with that story.

No, I probably wouldn't have done. But I think at that time I was still craving critical love.

Right.

And I was still like heartbroken that a magazine like NME who I'd bought since I was 10, then didn't like me. Didn't get it.

Yeah. Kerrang, loved Kerrang. Kerrang didn't. I mean, obviously didn't. It's very different stylistically. But you know, I think I was still navigating that being 19 and being like, I like these publications. Why don't these publications like me? And I think you get to the other side and then you meet artists that you admire that I think just from being myself and being a bit weird and honest and stuff. And I think it's really fun to do stuff like that. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the world that are influenced by uncool bands. I say uncool because I

think Westlife are intensely cool, but I know, I know what you mean, like in terms of being influenced by a boy band. But I bet that there are, boy band music is some of the first really, really well crafted songs that you will hear as a kid.

And it's changed shape. The stakes don't seem as high as they did. Like I was talking to Bec about this and he was saying, dude, the nineties, brutal. Like he was like, he was like, it was brutal

in the nineties trying to be credible. Like it's still brutal now. I think that, I think that hindsight, I think it's way more brutal now, by the way, because it's so difficult to like break in for new artists to break in. Don't you think pop music gets a much bigger pass than it used to back in the day? I think pop's changed shape quite a bit. I think good songs get a good pass, but I think back in the day, pop music, it got a tough time from the cool crowd, but the songs still were hits with people like me who were nine. And then we grow up and we go, you can't fucking tell me what's cool.

Like, I think this is cool. And suddenly the Backstreet Boys are on Vogue and Britney Spears is on Vogue and Westlife are on Vogue and NSYNC and like, because it's us as young kids being like, well, this is everything. My smash hit CD is, is everything. And then you grow up and then that's, that's cool. Whereas I think it's still brutal now, like new artists coming through or even old artists coming through. We were talking in the car about, you know, artists that are same generation as me. They get a really tough time from new music that they try to release. And I think that it's

still brutal, but I think if a song is good, it will cut through in an audience. And I'm saying, like, I want it that way cut through to nine year old me, but that song can still cut through to 30 year old me with 30 year old friends or a new nine year old because, because it's a great song. And I think nowadays it's a brutal landscape to break through, but these good songs will, will also stand the

test of time. I think good. Yeah. Top three key changes of all time, man. I want it that way.

Yeah, man. So I started a, I started up my high school band again. So I was in a band when I was, Did you bring them out on stage? Yeah, but it all happened. We, we were in a band when I was 12.

What were you called? Rusty. It was me and my mate Fred who were in year eight. We were 12. And then Roly, his younger brother, who was in year seven. And in my mind, we were together for like 40 years.

And we did all these shows. We probably did like five shows. And we split up because they joined another band and I wanted to do the Damien Rice singer songwriter thing. But Fred and Roly have always remained my best friends. Fred came on tour with me for years and stuff like that.

And then for my mate Doug's wedding, Doug said, get the band back together. 20 year anniversary.

I want Rusty. Yeah. So we got back together. We played this killer set for an hour and a half.

Originals. No, no, no. I want it that way. I believe in a thing called love. Mr. Brightside.

Bewitched. C'est la vie. I mean, we fucking crushed. We also did Teenage Dirtbag. And I was like, I kind of know Brendan. Like, I could probably ask him if we could play this at a show. Now we're older, we get to actually live out our teenage dreams. You're in a fucking playground right now, mate. I know. Whatever you want. You're like the Willy Wonka of fucking pop music. This is amazing. This is what's fucking, but this is what I'm loving touring so much as we can do shit like this. And like, they're very competent musicians, Fred and Rowley, but they both work totally different jobs. They're not in music. So now seeing them get back into this creative space and Rowley's now playing drums every single day.

And Fred, it's like, it's a really cool thing to get to do with your mates and share with your mates.

And I think Brendan really loved the feeling of it as well. We did a gig Saturday in Amsterdam for another mate's wedding and it was great again. Can I ask you whether or not,

because there's a lot of what we've talked about today, which really is about making the most of the time we have, this gift of life, right? The present.

Getting Rusty back together. Bringing out your childhood heroes. Fuck in. Credibility be damned.

These are the people that made me. Living this life and wanting to just enjoy life again.

Some of this must have come out of the loss of Jamal and out of realizing that life is precious,

right? A hundred percent. Yeah. And also life is too short not to tell James Blunt what he means to me. Yeah. You know, I have, I've had a good relationship with James for maybe like 12, 13 years, but I've never really sat and said like, this is how important you were to me. And same, same with Westlife. I mean, Westlife knew that I was fans of them, but I think like there's a generation of artists coming through now that are Lewis, I guess, was like in the middle. Like Lewis has said, he's got YouTube videos of him singing the A-Team and you need me, I don't need you and stuff like

that. But like there's this generation just below him, which are like Miles Smith, who was nine or 10 when the A-Team came out and had a loop pedal for his birthday as well and got an acoustic guitar.

And he's on tour with me now. And he, for whatever reason, makes a point of whenever he feels something, he tells me. And it's really made me want to do the same thing. So I brought him up on stage and we his son kissed me together. And he was like, told me this whole story about getting the loop pedal for his birthday and learning these songs and plus being so important to him and how these moments

like are so special to him. What an emotionally intelligent young man.

Yeah. Well, and also very, very confident within himself. Like he's like the cool fact to be

damned there as well. But to share that, to want to share the moment with somebody and not just like wait for the right time, but be like, no, there's no right time. Or even just kind of push it down. And I think it's

making me more and more want to do it for, I mean, I do it anytime I love a new artist's song, I will, I'll DM them on. It's like, I heard that Sky Newman Family Matters and was just like, fuck me. Messaged her, got to know her, got to share a stage with her. And then you suddenly have a connection. This is what I was saying about like rooting for the new generation coming through. But I'm finding with the older generation, I feel like people like Westlife and Steve Mack, who wrote the Westlife songs, deserve their flowers now. Like, don't tell them when they're gone. Like, tell them now.

These songs are fucking awesome. And they mean a lot to people.

You know, I was thinking about the stadium life that you've developed to yourself, this kind of way of being able to go out there and play in front of the most amount of people possible in one location so regularly and be able to make it feel like there's a life you can live in. It's not all consuming. And I'm trying to trace it back to like, okay, well, when does that start? Where does that start? But the idea of being able to do this in a smart way. In Nashville, you hear of the weekend

warrior thing where people go out for weekends, but I don't think I really implemented it until mathematics actually having kids. Because the mathematics tour started and Cherry gave birth five days into it with our second child. So you kind of have to be at home, go out for the shows, be at home. Otherwise, she's looking after two kids on her own for the whole time. So I think it's, I think having children was the inspiration to do it. And I think looking at the way that country

artists do it was the, oh, that's, that's how you do it. But even then, like the country artists sort of do it. Unless you're like Taylor, George Strait, Kenny Chesney, I guess Luke Combs now is in, is in that conversation. They're weekend warrior. They're still on a bus. They'll do city, city, city, city home. Whereas I think the, the stadium thing is you go to a city and you're just there and you play three shows and it's, it's a bit more chilled. I mean, my touring life now is so much more relaxed than it, like on plus I play six nights a week and do, you know, six, seven hours of

promo every single day, seven days a week for three years and kind of the same on multiply. And then I have that break and then kind of the same on divide. And I think then COVID happened and the, the world changed in how you do things. And as I said earlier, like working smart and not harder, like I work way less, but the things that I do like matter. Like this is my thing that I'm doing today. Whereas when I saw you, I think you just started on Apple music. I can remember I came in, I hadn't been to bed. Oh yeah. Like that would have been one of like many things that day. And

then you went in straight into a show. Whereas now the only thing I'm doing today is this interview.

Yeah. You did a show that night at the Hollywood Bowl. It was, I've never seen anything like, fucking like it. I knew you hadn't been to bed. You hadn't been to bed for 36 hours.

That was bad. I was great. I used to smoke then as well. And like, I, I look at it now, like I really take care of my voice now. And back then I would smoke, drink, stay up all night, be in the studio for 12 hours a day, then do like a three hour show and then go and do it again.

I remember what was funny about that, that, that run of shows. We had those three Hollywood Bowl shows that I just like went out, out, out, out, out. And then I opened up for the stones.

Yeah. And I remember Keith Richards being like, Hey man, we're going to a drink afterwards. And me just being like, I was like, I physically fucking can't, man. I gotta go to bed. And I look back at that and I'm like, Oh, he just thinks I can't hang. And I could have hung. You know, it's, it's interesting.

After all the variations, I was like, okay, maybe this is the moment where you sort of break the spell a little bit and we start to get a little bit of both. And I'm sure we will, but then outcomes play and talk of there being like forward, rewind, stop this whole, this new wave of five. You said something to me in the last conversation we did on a, on a video call that we decided was not the right time to share that. I'm going to go in again. Okay. You talked about the mortality of a pop star, the lifespan of making pop records and what that means to you as a person. And I want to give you a

second shot at trying to explain, especially as we begin a new era of five.

I think Subtract and Autumn Variations were a really good circuit breaker for me to just be like, I'm a singer songwriter. I'm going to make singer songwriter albums and I am going to dip in and out of things when I feel like it. And I think that play will be one of the last like pop hurrahs that I'll get away with. I won't say it's one of the last pop hurrahs that I'll do, but it's definitely one of the last ones that I'll get away with. And also like, I'm a singer songwriter and I think singer songwriter music is best when it's led from

experience. And this is why I think Subtract came when it came as my first proper singer songwriter record since Plus. It meant something, it had a story, there was feeling behind it, there was experience behind it. You can't write that record at 19. And I think play is the, I mean, but also there are, there are a lot of singer songwriter moments on play that I would say would have fit on Subtract as well. At least, at least, at least Stylist.

There's one or two, I think that would have fit on Multiply, if I'm really honest with you. I think Vow is up there as a, as a, as a real Ed Sheeran copyright that could have said on any one of your albums.

Well, I hope so, man. I hope so.

You know.

But, but on, but on the subject of, of pop, like I, I want to grow old with grace. I want to, I want it to be graceful. And as I said, I'm really getting away with it at, at the moment. I think like Sapphire's hit a really good, uh, level. Azizam's hit a really good level. Like they're all, I fit, it feels good at the moment. And I think we've done a hell of a lot of work as a team to, I don't know, make me comfortable within my age.

You feel good about still doing it at this level.

Yeah. But like, it doesn't feel forced or like, I'm like the, the, the things that we're doing are not like, they're all quite human, but I'll play you some of the next record tonight. And it's very much getting back to, uh, it's sort of like plus multiply me, but at 34, which is actually interesting to go back stylistically to, uh, you know, hip hop breakbeats and rapping, but it being

this new experience. Yeah. It was quite, it was quite fun.

You know, the last of the five is stop.

Yeah. Well, no, it's actually, it would be stop and then eject.

Eject, eject is the, uh, is the, is the album in the will.

It's so funny, the image of me to me.

It's actually in my will. It's actually in my will. And Cherry gets to pick the tracks for it.

It's fully like it's in there. If I were to go tomorrow.

It is. I don't understand. What do you mean? It's in your will.

Uh, my will of wishes is to make a record out of all the songs from the age of like 18.

So when I pass away, choose the 10 best. And it's like, imagine if Paul McCartney dies and there's like early 16 year old Beatles recordings and then right up to it, the 10 best of like his entire career. Lots of people won't like that of me, but there'll be lots of my fans that would find that super interesting.

Only comes out after I'm dead. Yeah.

Wow. So, okay.

You know how posthumous albums come out, but they're sort of unplanned.

I want to sort of make a plan.

You want the estate to take care of it and do it properly.

Yeah. And it's called eject.

And I'll talk to Cherry throughout my life of like, I really like this one.

I really like this one. I really like this one.

It's really, actually it's really cool, man.

But as far as you living on this earth for a long time to come.

Yeah, but you never know. You never know.

You never know.

And I don't, and I don't want to go and someone just to jumble up stuff and put it out.

I want it, I want it to be planned.

Until that moment, Stop is a pretty finite sounding album on paper.

Yeah.

What is Stop to you as someone who plans?

And I know you, Ed today, 34 year old Ed is living in the moment and appreciating life and giving gratitude as and where it is required and desired.

But I know you think you make albums in chapters and in groups.

So what is Stop?

I think I'll take a long time to make it.

I think that Rewind is sort of self-explanatory.

Mm-hmm.

Pause, don't know, like if I take a break, maybe that will be a nice one to put out.

Fast forward can be anything fucking kooky and futuristic.

Stop, I feel like, has to be kind of like the way that Jay-Z did the Black album.

As if it's your, I'm not saying that will be my final album.

I think I'll probably still make music from there.

But I think it has to be made with the same level of care and attention.

I love the Black album and it's because he's like, this is my last thing I'm giving to the world.

What is it about mortality in the arts?

You know, I've spoken to a few people about this and I don't mean life or death.

I mean the idea of stop.

And yeah, it doesn't have to be the end of your creativity.

But you know, like Childish Gambino just did it.

Like he just retired Childish Gambino and he'll keep making music.

Well, and Abel's retired the weekend.

That's right.

And so what is it about the idea of being able to cap something that is attractive to creative people?

I think it's the fantasy of going back to normal life.

But the thing is, as creatives, our life was always creative.

Like Childish Gambino, Donald Glover was always creative.

Abel was always creative.

Jay-Z was always creative.

So when you stop and you retreat and you go, right, I'm just going to live a normal life.

You inevitably get drawn back to creativity because that's the only thing that you know how to do.

But I do think, like, I fantasize all the time about disappearing and moving to, like, Damien Rice lives in the sort of middle of nowhere where people wouldn't like that.

And I went to hang out with him there.

And when I'm there, I'm like...

Good life?

Yeah.

And when I'm there, I'm like, I could do this.

I could do this.

But then there's so many other factors of, like, the kid's grandparents live here.

I say it's a fantasy.

It's like every now and then, like, if I'm knackered, I'm like, you want to pack it all in and go.

But I love the way that Springsteen did it, actually.

Springsteen sort of, like, took a step back while his kids were at high school, university, I guess.

And now he's back on the horse in terms of touring.

I guess he did, like, certain shows.

But I do like the...

I think if I was going to do Pause or Stop, it would be for a reason.

I always thought I'd really stop making music when I had kids.

And then, you know, for the first, like, three years of their life, you're there.

And then suddenly they go off to school.

And then...

It's also about setting an example to some degree.

You realize, like, you're not really setting an example if you're on their time all the time.

Yeah.

You have to bring them into your world in order for them to actually be opened up to it.

Yeah.

I love bringing them in here.

I love bringing them to music video sets.

I love, like, bringing them to shows.

Like, Cherry's the same.

Like, Cherry's work.

They just come and sit with her in the office and see her design stuff.

And I think it's good that that's the way that we grew up as kids.

I guess that's like a primal thing of watching your parents fish and gutter fish and knowing how to...

I know that sounds weird, but yeah, I think it's good to know that stuff.

But yeah, I always thought that I'd slow everything down when I had kids.

But really, all that I needed to do was change my way of doing things.

You were going fast too, man.

I mean, I'm not surprised you're fantasizing about that.

Because at some point, no matter how exciting it is to be going that fast, you must be thinking, where's the eject button?

Like, how do I actually get out of this for a second?

Yeah, but there is no ejects.

But there is...

I work nine till three in the studio, you know, do both school runs.

I play Saturday, Sunday at gigs, mostly take the kids.

What a life.

Yeah, I'm so fortunate to have such balance.

Like, it really feels really kind of, I could do this forever.

And people keep saying, why do you keep adding tour dates?

We're just going, we're rolling, we're rolling, we're rolling.

Yeah, yeah.

Could just do it forever. Speak to Chris Martin about it as well.

He told me the same thing when we were in Dublin.

He's like, why would I want to start?

Just roll, roll, roll.

Yeah, he's got a good thing going on.

And his kids are left home.

So like, there's even less reason.

It's just, we might as well.

Yeah, I see you going to New Zealand.

It's like you now.

Yeah.

I know.

Yeah.

I know.

And speaking of which, I see you going to New Zealand, Australia in the new year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Starting the new tour, the loop tour.

Yeah.

I feel like the mathematics tour, I had a point to prove of how far you can push the needle as an acoustic singer-songwriter solo thing.

You know, do it in the round and you've got the fireworks and the flames and blah, blah, blah, blah.

After I ticked the box of it, I was like, what actually at the core am I really good at?

And it's an end on loop pedal show.

And I feel like I've ticked all the boxes of, you know, I watch Chris's show, which is incredible.

And you go, I want to be like that.

But he's like that.

Coldplay of that.

Taylor is Taylor.

Abel is Abel.

Kendrick is Kendrick.

I'm me.

And the one thing that I know that I can do better than anyone is a solo loop pedal show.

So I'm just getting back to that.

And it's kind of the core of, I think you do that as an artist.

You always, the grass is always greener on the other side.

And I think you sometimes have to like, remind yourself who you are and what people like about you.

I remember being in the studio with Rick Rubin.

He said he was doing an album with Metallica.

And he was like, remember, you're Metallica.

Just remember, like, be Metallica.

That's like, it's, and it sounds like the simplest thing to do.

But I think as artists, you always go, well, I really like this kind of music.

So I want to do this.

And I really like this kind of stage show.

So I want to do that.

And I really like this kind of thing.

So I want to do that.

But you always have to come back to the core of like, who you are as a, as an artist and a human, I think.

And who is that?

Well, this, I'm a ginger haired singer songwriter with a small guitar who would play anywhere that would have him.

And I think that that is the, what the whole vibe of the play campaign has been that I'm popping up anywhere that I will, has a stage or doesn't have a stage and I'm playing shows.

And it could be a stadium.

It could be a pub.

It could be like a Mexican cantina.

It could be anywhere.

And it's just getting back to the core of who I am.

And it's really difficult to remember that when you're in the pop space and all of your contemporaries are like one thing.

And it, yeah, you sort of feel like you have to do things.

And I think that's why probably folklore for Taylor like did so well.

It was like, that's the core of who she is and was at the beginning.

Yeah.

And it kind of reminded everyone of that.

Like same for Coldplay.

I think Coldplay's renaissance is a weird word because they've always been big, but it's now they are bigger than ever.

Yeah.

Because they've reminded everyone we're fucking good live.

And, and also, why do you release music to play live?

Yeah.

So why be, why be bothered?

I mean, this is the looking at Azizam and Sapphire.

Like they've, they both had different lives within the charts and numbers and stuff like that.

But from early on, from them coming out, I was playing them live.

And that was the kind of light bulb moment as well of like they kick off live, like really kick off live.

So why does it even matter?

Like release them, make sure people hear them.

If they chart, great.

If they don't chart, great.

But make sure people hear them.

And then when you play them live, they like kick off.

It's a, how does someone even know?

There was a, there was a sign in Ipswich asking for slowly.

It's not even out yet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I played it.

I played it once at an old phone gig.

Yeah.

Do you have a bowling alley?

I do have a bowling alley.

Yeah.

I tried to build it at home and Cherry said, we're weird enough.

So don't build a bowling alley.

And then, uh, when I bought this studio, it had some pig sheds out the back.

I was like, that looks like it could fit a bowling alley in it.

I'll show you.

It's, it's fun.

It's basically my home pub is where I put all my music memorabilia.

But the bowling alley is all the sports memorabilia.

Can we see both?

Well, can I see the bowling alley and then we'll go to the pub?

Oh, shit.

This isn't just a bowling alley.

This is legit.

It's where we pump.

Yeah.

And then these are all the shirts basically apologizing for the games.

This is where we come for like after work drinks and bowl.

Soba, you must be just like, fucking hell.

Well, I mean, there's enough to do without giving too much away.

Who have you hosted?

Who's been through here?

I had Barry Keoghan last week.

Nice.

Which was cool.

He was, I mean, he was lovely.

Who before that?

Hemsworth came down.

Really weird.

Hemsworth read my daughter's story.

And then I went in to go and read her another story.

And she just goes, daddy, who is that beautiful man?

Right, we doing it?

Yeah.

All right.

Now, I have to, I have to be good though.

What if I'm not good?

Oh, no.

All right, all right, all right, all right, all right.

Do you want me to put up the barriers?

No, no, no.

You sure?

I got this.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Let me get one more in.

Just let me get one pin down.

Let me just get the game going.

Okay.

There you go.

There you go.

Whoa.

I think the alley itself kind of veers to the left a bit.

What if?

A little bit.

Oh, that's good.

That's some pop star shit.

This is some pop star shit, yeah.

I'm getting a neon sign made for there.

It's being like, please don't build a bowling alley.

We're weird enough.

Oh, no.

For my birthday, I had it in Brazil.

The promoters said to me, what do you want for your birthday?

And I was like, can you get a load of ex-Brazil players to play me and my mates at football?

Football, right, right, right.

We played for about a minute.

I don't even want to.

And they were like, we need to jumble up these teams a little bit.

Okay, okay, okay.

Who plays?

It was like a lot of World Cup winning players.

Are you into football?

Yeah.

Yeah.

A bunch of them.

A bunch of them.

Oh, that kind of team.

Holy shit.

Yeah, a bunch of them.

Okay, Ronaldinho, fucking Ronaldo.

Who else?

No, it wasn't actually Ronaldinho.

I think Ronaldinho was inside at the time, but...

Right.

No, Ronaldo.

He invited me to his house.

Got me to sign a guitar that you two gave him the day he won the World Cup.

And I was like...

Slow down.

There's so much to unpack there.

Ronaldo got you to sign a guitar that you two gave him.

It's like, to Ronaldo, congratulations on the World Cup.

And he was like...

Bono.

He was like, you should sign it too.

And I was like, I don't know if I should.

Did you sign it?

Yeah.

Yeah, I signed it.

That's amazing.

Yeah, it was really good, man.

It was really good.

I wanted to listen to a different vinyl with my daughter every morning.

Yeah.

And I found that all the vinyls that got repressed were the best ones to buy, because they're all the classic albums.

You know, an album like Paranoid was huge in its time, but it obviously is so costly to repress records now that the ones that get repressed are like the really, really special ones.

So that was my way of choosing records that I hadn't heard.

And what did your daughter think?

I think she like wore pigs.

I played Iowa to her as well.

I don't think Iowa was like the record to play.

Not, I think, for kids.

Scary.

It was scary for me as an adult first time I met them.

Musicianship though of that band.

Without a doubt, one of the greatest bands in my lifetime.

Never seen them play live.

I was meant to take my cousin.

Dude.

And then COVID hit.

And all my mates went when they played Glasgow recently.

What about Limp Bizky?

You seen them live?

Such a good time.

I went side of stage at Pink Pop and Fred Durst like started off and they'd like played Shape of You.

And I was like standing there and I was like, is he taking the piss?

Like what?

And then, and then later on, he like played Shape of You again.

He's like, and Ed Sheeran's playing later.

And I was like, I'm not sure.

I'd kind of made it clear in interviews before that I really like love Limp Bizky.

Same.

And I was like, is he taking the, is this, you know, it's a metal crowd.

Am I just taking the piss?

And then he starts singing behind blue eyes.

And he just comes over and he just gives you the bike.

And I'm like, oh, fuck.

So I went on stage.

And yeah, yeah, it was, it was cool.

I really, really enjoyed it.

Right.

We're clawing it back.

This is it.

This is it.

I have to get this in.

Otherwise I'm fucked.

Yep.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's it.

Oh, come on.

That's a little, that's a little much, isn't it?

I mean, to put the cue down.

I mean, come on.

I've given up.

You know what I mean?

I've given up.

Come on, mate.

Until, uh, until next time.

Until, uh, until the next album, as always.

Yeah, man.