Gordon Ramsay Exclusive: It’s Time To Tell My Full Story

Well, Gordon, first of all, thank you so much for finding the time to join us.

Good to see you, bud.

And you.

What is high performance?

High performance for me is a double-edged sword.

It's dangerous.

Very, very few make it.

And then when you're on that edge,

you understand the consequences

when you can't get a high performance.

So, certain issues with perfection

is hard to sort of congregate your mind on a daily basis.

But high performance is about relentlessness in my mind.

So, are you a perfectionist?

I'm a self-confessed perfectionist, yeah.

I had a proper insight to perfection early on in my career.

And that's a path that you, you know, there's lanes in life, isn't there?

And I'm done with that bullshit about, eh, stay in your lane.

I want to own my lane.

And that's high performance on a daily basis.

I need that shot.

I think it's one of the most exciting industries to be in as a restaurateur, chef, cook, whatever you want to call it.

But there's also the shit end of the stick.

Like, there's the double shifts and defrosting frozen food and sticking shit in a fryer.

That's the lower divisions of food.

And I was determined to get the fuck out of there early.

Because when you start in this industry, you go through those divisions.

I remember a chef back in Stratford-upon-Avon, where I grew up, was showing me how to make a roast potato.

And he was peeling the potatoes, blanching them in the deep fat fryer, and then sprinkling fucking bobble dust over the top.

And that was the roast potato.

So that scared the shit out of me.

And I think you need to have both ends of the spectrum to understand high performance.

But it's about climbing that division

and owning it.

So I'm interested where the understanding of what you're capable of comes from.

Can you remember the first time that you almost saw the possibilities that life can offer if you actually go for something?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I think when I stood alongside Marco, Marco Pierre-White, for two years, side by side, 16 hours a day, relentless, because I was in that pursuit of perfection.

And this guy put food on a plate like Picasso.

And I wanted to get that level of discipline.

And so Marco was up north with some food critic away for the weekend.

And for some unknown reason, I can't remember, but he couldn't come back to the restaurant to open it after the holidays.

And all of a sudden, I was in charge.

And he was on the phone every two minutes explaining what to do.

But I knew what to do, but I'd never been given the reins.

And at 22, when you're dropped in the shit like that, it's sink or swim.

So I didn't really understand the amount of pressure I was under at that particular time.

But what I did see was empty plates coming back from the restaurant.

And it was a high-octane, two-mission-style establishment.

And every customer was licking their lips.

Every customer couldn't quite believe how good the food was.

And it was that moment.

Shit, Marco's not here.

But what he's given me and taught me, I've just replicated.

Now, I need to become individual.

I need to step away from what he's shown me.

And I need to search for my own DNA.

But you already, though, had something.

Because you don't end up in a Marco Pierre white kitchen unless you're already grafting, chasing perfection, thinking that you actually deserve to be there.

Like, even further back, I know you played football as a young guy.

Like, was this mindset that Gordon was destined for something there when you were 12, 13, 14, 15?

Ooh, that's a tough one.

I was hungry.

I was in pursuit of something to better myself.

It's interesting when you grow up with a disadvantaged childhood.

At the time, you don't know it's that bad.

But there is embarrassing moments at school where you're called out to do the sort of, the photographs.

And you've got to go with the family.

Because I had my brother and my sister at the same school because you weren't allowed to do it individually because your parents would never pay for that.

And then there was the embarrassment every day when you went into the refectory for lunch.

We had luncheon vouchers and there was a separate queue.

And so it was like council house, kids on the left-hand side and posh kids on the right-hand side.

And that gave you a complex.

That gave you a sort of a stern warning to get your shit together.

So I think that's what helped shape me for that level of hunger to get focused because I wasn't embarrassed about what my mum put on the table.

I was embarrassed about the way it was segregated and the way that you were made to feel

separate from the classroom because your mum and dad couldn't afford to give you any money for school lunch.

And we have many people listening to this who, like you, come from a difficult upbringing and a disadvantaged background.

But also a lot of people will see you as the hugely famous, hugely successful chef.

Yeah.

And not maybe know that story.

When you think about how hard those days were, where does your mind take you back to if you're happy to share actually how difficult it was?

Yeah.

I'm grateful.

I'm grateful for those moments.

There was no distractions in those days.

So you sort of clung on to anything that's shiny.

And spending time with my mum at work, getting into this little tiny restaurant, helping her prep vegetables was a godsend.

That was before football practice.

That was after school.

But also just growing up and watching her handle three jobs.

Christmas morning, one of the most exciting mornings for a kid across the year should be that moment, seeing your mum and dad.

But I didn't see my mum because she was out working.

So you then understand just how hard life can be.

And you don't walk around looking for a pity party.

You just want to better yourself.

You want to put a new benchmark under the name Ramsey and create something different.

How did you take the mindset of, you know, because anyone that has that early on, there is a moment where they think, why is this my life?

Why do I have challenge?

How did you go about turning those negative experiences into positive action?

Yeah, I've always been a solution solver.

I've never sat there.

Even at that age?

Even at that age.

Even because I got involved with sport early on.

And so I was super fit, good at what I did.

And I think having a chance to get involved with football at a high level, and that's been taken away from you, was a big blow.

And so you don't sit there and become bitter for the rest of your life.

It's just dust yourself down.

Mum always told me, you know, deal with it.

Get on it early.

Get your priorities right.

You know, focus on what you want out of life.

And so those traits still sit there daily.

Even today, what do you want out of today?

What's the solution?

When we get problems.

So I think growing up and watching the destruction that my father was creating, and he taught me in many ways how to become a great father by doing the opposite of what he showed me.

And so I was desperate for that chance to get out of that mess and create something special for myself.

What sort of father was he?

Didn't really get on with him in a way that he in many ways was maybe some fair to say a failed magician, but he was into music, played with the Marty Wilds, had these band, did records, etc.

But I remember on multiple occasions we're going in and out bars, lumping gear every Saturday night and then sat watching him.

And it was never a fun evening because as the drinks got bigger, the room got feistier and all of a sudden, you're sort of rushed out in the back of a transit van and you're sort of disappearing.

So I never really had that connect with him.

We never really bonded.

We never really spent a lot of time together.

So, you know, I make up for that now having two sons, you know, Jack and Oscar.

And so we learn from the defaults, don't you?

And mum was my mother and father because that's how strong she was.

And that's admirable from a woman.

That was the connect that, you know,

I didn't envisage because I never thought I'd be looking towards my mum for, you know, dad's incompetence.

And she filled that void beautifully.

And that's an amazing bond when you got that with your mum.

And you mentioned football at an early age.

You were playing at Rangers.

Yeah.

And you said it gets taken away from you.

Your career was ended really early on by injury, right?

Rapidly.

Yeah, I was fit as a fiddle, you know, six foot two, naturally left footed.

Very, very few individuals got past me.

And so I was, yeah, I was a steam train.

I remember playing a testimonial for the first team, got my first call up.

And then of course, he'd just broken into the first team.

He was playing for Scotland under 21s.

I was 18 at the time.

Dave McPherson just got his first big call up.

And so all of a sudden, you're in this amazing team.

You're on the sheet.

Your name's there.

Number three on the back of the shirt.

And I went in for this 50-50 tackle and it was crunch.

And I laid there in such pain, tore my crucial ligament and smashed my cartilage.

Then we didn't have private healthcare.

You didn't get whisked off to Germany for the latest surgeon.

You were on the rubbish heap.

You were in the scrap heap.

Because there's four or five guys behind me instantly to take my place.

So that was devastating.

Then I came back down to Banbury in Oxfordshire and I lived in a council flat with my sister.

And then got into college, got into catering as a way of becoming independent and moving further away from the upset that was, you know,

in my mind on a daily basis.

How painful was that?

Oh, shit.

I mean, really painful.

But brutally painful, especially when your mates are making it and they're progressing and you're seeing the headlines.

You're purposely not watching the news.

You're purposely not finding out the scores at five to five on a Saturday afternoon because you want to move away from that.

So it was that moment that my mum taught me.

Dust yourself down, pick yourself up and go again.

And then that freedom with the connection with food all of a sudden started to really resonate the sort of the breadth of what you need to understand.

And then I got to London.

I had to head to London.

I had to go into somewhere unique in order to learn unique things.

Because if you want to be one of the best,

you need to work with the best.

And it's not about money.

It's not about hours.

You just need to work with the best.

Whatever they do, you need to follow suit.

And that's a short-term investment for a long-term gain.

I wonder, you know, whether as difficult as those early years were with your relationship with your dad and, you know, as you said, basically humiliation at school.

Yeah.

You're in the poor kid's queue, right?

Yeah.

I wonder whether actually those experiences equipped you for, at the end of your football career, to kind of find a way forward.

Rather, you know, people get derailed for years after that kind of...

Yeah.

Well, I had a similar parallel because I could see my father not making it and breaking out in music and not being sought after.

Couldn't earn a living and look after the family full-time.

He swam for Scotland at the age of 15.

And so he had this incredible,

strong sort of sport background.

But I could see this failed, you know, music guy that wasn't making it.

Money was getting less and less.

The gigs weren't coming in.

And all of a sudden, you know, he ended up playing in crappy bars and sat there with a little pile of CDs, which was embarrassing.

So I witnessed him clinging on to something that was never going to happen.

And it was to the family's detriment that they all struggled because of him hanging on to something that didn't provide for the family.

And so in many ways, with that shock of having football taken away

and witnessing my dad clinging on to something for too long, it made me more decisive.

And in business, you need to be decisive.

And so from an early age, I was super on it to what I needed to do to get out of the mess that I was born in.

It's a good reminder, isn't it,

for all of us that just because something's hard for you doesn't mean it isn't actually good for you.

Have you managed to sort of resolve that in your own head that maybe you are grateful for some of those early experiences because you wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation?

Super grateful.

And also, it releases you from that.

Yeah, but listen, we haven't been diagnosed with a horrendous disease.

Yeah.

You haven't been given six months to live, so you've got to sort of, you've got to live in the real world.

I do that.

I calibrate that on a daily basis.

So,

I got over that early and then I had father figures in my life.

Marco, Pierre Wyatt was like a big brother father figure.

Albert Roux at Le Gavroche was another father figure.

Guy Seurat in Paris, all of a sudden you start going to their wings and once you're talent in that division, then all they do is pass you on to absolute amazing establishments to sort of learn.

And I think the secret early on is every time I got to a level, next time I went into another establishment, I came down a level to learn even greater.

Because sometimes when you jump too high, the learning stops because they want to know what you've just been taught.

So, that was bullshit for me because it wasn't making me any better.

And I was on that pursuit to garner all this info, intel, intel, everywhere I went, give me the intel.

What is it?

How does that sourdough work perfectly?

How do you, how do you bone out a pigeon beautifully and not waste anything on that carcass?

And so, that, that intel was this, this gathering of incredible stuff.

In the prep for this interview, reading the journey and the story through the culinary establishments was probably the most interesting and rewarding part for me.

Let's talk about where it all began.

So, you've taken the leap, you've headed down, you've gone to technical college.

Yeah.

You're living in a flat.

Yeah.

When you take yourself back to the Gordon Ramsay mindset at that point, what was it?

Listen, there was a charity called Banbury Round Table and I think every town has these round table charities.

They paid for my first set of fucking whites.

They bought my first set of knives.

They bought my first floppy hat and so, everyone asked, why did you do so much for charity?

You know, it started with charity and so, if it wasn't for that incredible moment, I think it was 62 quid for a set of knives, two chef's jackets, horrendous trousers and these fucking ridiculous clogs that no one could walk in and so, all of a sudden, these knives were your possession and your sort of tools and so, I was polishing them sharpening every day and I remember nipping the end off one of them once and I was gutted the fact that these knives were cheap.

These were 17 pound for a set of like 25 knives but you respect them and so, that moment for me was, you've got all the tools, now do something with it and then, there's that level of insecurity that can't be apparent when you're standing next to such talent because you want to know what they've got and you have to be a sponge without insecurity because the insecurity stops you from learning because you think you're never going to get there and so, kitchens are tempestuous,

boisterous environments and always, you see that piston firing every day and they're all on the make because they want to be superstars and it's a tough environment but I then related those moments back to the dressing room at Ibrox and if you think the kitchen's tough, wait to see or hear some of the shit you get told and called in a dressing room when no one's listening and you're getting pummeled.

So that gave me the armor and that coat of resilience to get on in the industry, not fast-tracked but to take the blows when necessary.

Let's talk about the steps then.

Yeah.

Who was the first person that you met, the first chef where you thought that is, that is what I want to be?

Hmm.

Truthfully,

I'd say Marker P.O.I.

When we came down to London for a big exhibition in the industry, it was called Hotel Olympia and we came down for the weekend from Banbury and we never got anywhere near a famous chef.

The closest we got was to a neckerchief belonging to Anton Moserman that was in a glass box outside the fucking Dorchester Hotel and we'd drive by this hotel and we were sort of told to get off the bus and go and look at Anton Edelman's

white starched hat and his neckerchief and that was the closest we got and so think about that you know and then standing next to someone like Marco

you're grateful but you're going to be one of the most talented sponges he's ever had by his side so yeah you process it quickly when you're on that drive for success

and at this point what is the drive is the drive I want to become successful is the drive I want to escape where I've come from is the drive I just absolutely love food like what was the

I saw a chance I saw a chance of becoming unique I think we're all blessed with that in our life somewhere

how did you see that though

I could sense it because it made me ignite I could see this incredible sort of beginning of something unique and I think when we look at individuals figureheads in our lives and we want to aspire to become them but when they give you what they've got all of a sudden there's this treasure chest of uniqueness and so that was unfolding weekly and then there'd be new kids starting in that kitchen and within 48 hours they were gone they couldn't handle the heat how did that make you feel stronger yeah because

we thrive on other people's weaknesses in that business and that's a selfish thing to admit but I'm going to be honest with you we thrive on other people's weaknesses especially in the kitchen but that

that gave you hype

and it

gave you the sort of you know the chest beating moment where you can stand tall and I used to laugh because we were short staffed we'd operate Monday to Saturday 16-17 hours a day Sunday off you're fucked I mean I used to wake up on Sunday midday and I was fucked I mean just physically mentally exhausted we'd live on Lucas Aide and Mars bars and then Marco would say hey look we've got four new members of staff starting on Monday don't worry

we're going to cut your hours we're going to start taking half days off during the week and we'll get down to five and a half day week you think back then five and a half day week and that was the dream but these four guys and girls would walk in on Monday morning and we'd have bets who'd be there within 24 hours they just disappeared they could not stand the heat and so it made you stronger

was there ever a moment where you thought this is relentless this is ridiculous this is not what I thought it was I can't handle the heat I'm going to get out of the kitchen

never

not once fuck no

never I wanted it I absolutely wanted it because I could see this opening of escape I could see the the sort of the the grind the grit determination all paying off and I was becoming better don't forget so you got to sort of self-reflect a little bit because all of a sudden I'd mastered a tortellini I could make beautiful pasta I understood how to braise you know short ribs and so

that's the payoff and when you're not getting that substance back and you're not learning on that level then it's time to quit but I was I was learning so fast I mean it was just it was it was incredible to what I was gaining you know when I was a teenager

I lost my grandma to suicide right which is so difficult as close as you can get grandma and grandson and I saw and then I was wondering why did life change so much for me straight after that and I saw a quote not long ago saying people who've gone through trauma have a fire lit inside them that people who haven't can never quite understand I'm sort of there's a sense of that now I think

yeah there is I mean trauma that's a tough word I mean I think I put that down to experience because it didn't it didn't take me out I also had the parallel of my little brother 15 months younger than me as a heroin addict and so I had to constantly remind myself that him and I were mates him and I were sleeping in a bunk bed in a council house on multiple occasions and this kid was always underneath

me and messing around and lifting up the bunk bed and literally with his feet moving the fucking thing to the left and you know half past two in the morning shaking it and so we had fun and so you have to remind yourself that if I don't stay on the straight and narrow I don't get out of this shit mess I don't climb that ladder I don't get good and I don't start earning my own

keep if I can't get my own property if I can't invest in bricks and mortar that's the result and so it's a very fresh reminder on a daily basis between your ears get your shit together because close to you there's an addict that's on the verge of killing himself and that's your little brother and then I

saw mum's frustration never having a chance to own her own house and so I think for any woman and guy you know securities in bricks and mortar and we were we never they never owned anything and so when dad was you know incredibly drunk he'd turn the place over and then mum would be left getting super glue putting all these vases together her favourite bits of you know China and so at the age of 19 I bought my first flat a tiny little

one bedroom flat in Banbury and that was my payoff I felt then that shit you know I'm proud I've got a mortgage I've got a flat and I got a mate staying in there but I'm also progressing my career so I was I was almost in this cycle to sort of better myself too quickly because of the sort of let down I felt for my father

and brilliant that you were able to take those steps forwards which is kind of that stretch and reward thing you were getting stretched you were getting the rewards tiny rewards yes tiny tiny

rewards that's all you need though it's a speckle it's a speckle but it gives you hope it gives you confidence you're becoming more into it and all of a sudden you're starting to you're starting to calculate the benefits because you're outsmarting the shit standing behind you and then you're sort of you're feeling better and even at 19 20 21 no matter what happened I had more security at the age of 19 than my father did at 55

and while you were having these small steps forwards you also had this I guess a North Star for you at the time Marco Pierre White in the kitchen guiding you challenging you probably no doubt pushing you to your limits you've spoken so much about him over the years yeah I've heard numerous times you said oh Marco I just had you know it was incredible what a what a guy yeah what was it

I'm I think we had similar backgrounds he lost his mum at a young age and his father he didn't have a good relationship so I think you you sort of you attach yourself to similar circumstances and then there was an area of confidence that he knew he was better than the field he'd worked for Nico Albert Pierre Raymond Blanc and all of a sudden you know he was the new kid on the block I knew after spending a couple of years with Marco that I had to come back to the fold with something different so that's what got me into the Gavroche under the Rue brothers because it

was an area of sort of fine dining that I'd never been exposed to three-star Michelin Marco was two and Le Gavroche was three but even before I went to Le Gavroche I knew I had to go to France because I had to come back to the fold and outsmart Marco he'd never gone to France he got stopped in his tracks and he got too big too soon so he couldn't disappear to France so I knew in my engine room I had that little advantage that I'm gonna fuck off to France become French

absorb myself in one of the most amazing countries in the world and just gather more intel and come back and outsmart

everybody in London

did you love the idea of arriving green behind the gills inexperienced in Marco's kitchen and then having in your head that one day I'm gonna be a better chef than you yeah

because he wanted you to he pushed you to the extreme how did he do that because you know he drummed it in you know if you're gonna do it do it to your best and if you don't want to do it to your best get the fuck out of here don't waste my time and certainly don't waste yours and I think it's a lot of life lessons early on because you're getting structured you're getting hungry you're getting knowledge and all of a sudden you're becoming a beast because of the monster he created and the monster you're working for and so I see those environments all the time and I say to

the individuals stay in that environment get what you need and get out and when the shit hits the fan learn to dance in the storm it's a great place to be in because somewhere down the line there's gonna be a shit storm on your radar and you're gonna stand tall in that storm and you're gonna get through it and when the storm would come

to you in the kitchen yeah what was the best way to get out of that storm

solution because I was experienced enough to handle that and I'd know there wasn't any area in that kitchen restaurant bar wine cellar that I hadn't tackled and so that's where you go in search off and I knew my weaknesses and that's why stepping into Le Gavroche I'd never baked before but if I'm gonna have my own business I need to understand how to bake a Juan Paulin a sourdough for catch I need to understand that but I came out of Harvey's under Marco's tenor going into Le Gavroche I was I was

you know posted to get on the fish and the meat the top two sections but no I wanted to become a baker because it's one bit that I hadn't understood the chemistry of baking so on that trajectory you've got to still find those weaknesses to enhance you know that platform to make sure it is solid so when that shit storm comes you are not depending on anybody because you've got it in your itinerary

were you getting arrogant at any point

in this period needing to be slapped down or did you remain humble and I think I think arrogant is the wrong word it's called confidence right and that's misconstrued to those that are less talented than you look at that arrogant twat he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't like being told no dude I've got my shit together I know my shit you you're a dreamer and in this industry like many you know industries there's there's there's there's dreamers that want it but haven't got it to commit haven't

got it with mindset haven't got it with their broad shoulders and haven't got it in their attitude so yeah I'm gonna put that down to confidence not arrogance yeah there's a big difference Jane

so what's arrogance then is arrogance having the confidence without the hard work and the ability to back it up

no arrogance is mouthing off you can do it and not living up to the fucking potential

hey everyone it's Jake here with some big news I am drinking our first ever high performance drink we have created an amazing partnership with a company called Mission and this is a nootropic tea so it's like your classic cup of tea but in there it's got these amazing nootropics that will have your brain feeling sharp it'll have you feeling energized because we know that consistent energy leads to consistent performance I actually met Tom the founder of mission a few years ago I loved what he was doing I invested in the business and then together we've created our

very first tea blend and if you would like to get twenty percent off rise if you would also like twenty percent off all the other products from mission all you need to do is go to mission uk dot com use the code high performance get twenty percent off but please get your hands on some rise from high performance and mission tea because it's delicious and I think it could be a game changer for you cheers back to the episode can we talk then about hard work attention to detail yeah because everywhere you look everyone tells you I

work really hard I pay great attention to detail yes um take us into those early years as a chef what did hard work actually look like yeah

hard work was that relentless fifth sixth gear standing in front of a tiny team and remaining as an example where you're focusing on their weaknesses offloading everything you've got and then still finding gears that the team around you never thought you'd have sent examples first in last out um being more

personable with the staff in a way that you're you're sort of you're showing them how good they can become but they need to commit to being good for as long a period as you can get out of them and that takes a lot of convincing because

when you're learning it becomes so much more crucial when that that that that teacher is inspirational so you can't shut down so I learned to open up early on and then there's this level of unselfishness chefs are precious dainty little souls that are guarded with everything they've got they don't want to give much so um I understood the importance of opening up and talking and showing and then when the shit is the fan here's why it went wrong this is what we're going to do dust yourself down bounce back and that journey on the way

back is so much more rewarding than sitting on top and I said to them the mistakes you've just made I've made a thousand of them but never the same mistake twice hard work is just that and then hard work is about beating competition it's about being in front of the industry and in our industry you move it or it moves you and customers vote with their feet Jay no one brings you up and said you know what wasn't that good I'm not coming back they vote with their feet so as a

stern indicator I used to look at the waiting list every day and see the waiting list how to make sure there's a waiting list equivalent to the entire dining room so we never dropped the ball and it was just a message to everybody around me look we got 45 booked for dinner and there's fucking 45 on the waiting list

understand the importance of making sure you've got a backup plan B everyone needs a plan B in life and sometimes there's a plan C in your head but you never want to talk about it but you do need it that's interesting what a good way to keep the staff

humble I want to play you a clip when you mentioned giving back and sharing yes Marcus Waring has been on the podcast

before okay he just spent three and a half years with Marco White at Harvey's the rock and roll kitchen the the kitchen that was on like no other in anywhere in this country that I'd ever seen anyone had ever seen before and so he came into Gavroche with that training that tasting that attention to detail that perfection on the cutting of the fish that brilliant supporting food on the plate taste taste taste you look around the kitchen people weren't tasting food they'll just go through a process and that's the one thing that was a point of difference so that was

when as I focused on him I added that into my arsenal just kept adding and adding and adding and just love and mimic it because he was mimicking Marco but Marco was a I never had the chance to work with Marco

how yeah interesting yeah mimicking is a good word I mean I suppose I was I was I was I was grateful and fortunate that I was given that

uniqueness from him and that's going back to what you said earlier about the arrogance that's why it is in many ways it looks oh my god how cocky is he no trust me there's a price to pay for success you can't buy it but you can be taught it and I'm done with all that bullshit but well it's got to be your DNA you need a nonno your grandma needs to be a great chef that is absolute fucking bullshit but like anything successful you can work at it and I can I can prove that on multiple occasions I have a different

technique with young chefs yesterday I teach them how to taste first before I teach them how to cook because they don't understand how it tastes to perfection they shouldn't be cooking it so let's talk about the taste factors close your eyes tell me what that tastes of and so then there's multiple taste tests that is called an education on the palate and then we go to cook so they understand what it tastes like at its absolute moment of perfection then we're going to cook it and too many chefs cook first and

then they start tasting no taste the fucking thing first register where we're going with it and then go back it's the opposite way around but it works brilliantly and I think

when we when we discuss this story of relentlessness and attention to detail and focus and drive you you started this podcast by saying high performance is actually a double-edged sword yeah and am I right in thinking that there was a moment where you had to did you take time out and go and walk on a boat

yeah I sort of crammed this sort of six-year incredible culinary sort of uniqueness

two-star three-star three-star two-star establishments I was beaten to a pulp and I was fucked and there's that moment in your mind right time out I was 25 years of age didn't have a pot to piss in by the way I had to reverse charges calling my mom which was always embarrassing and she was this amazing woman that you know worked for the social security and she on the back of the way that she was abused in her marriage she then

went and worked in these incredible homes for battered women and so she was connected to all the sort of local police stations and she worked for women's aid and there's this incredible sort of job she had mentoring these young women and so I remember phoning her and reversing the charges I felt so fucking bad but I said mom I'm reversing the charges because I'm skint so what are you doing so I'm gonna go and work on a boat what what why are you gonna boat so I just need some time out so I got

down to Monaco and there's the sort of a yachty world down there and it's it's a beautiful thing to do provided it doesn't suck you in and it's a little bit like the raw below deck if you thought below deck today you should have seen it fucking 20 years ago it was it was it was ridiculous and I got into this amazing boat with this wonderful owner a private man incredibly private a beautiful man called Reg Grundy at the time he had Sailor the Century and Neighbors as his big hits

Australian and he was based in Bermuda and he wanted a personal chef so it was the most glorious 12 fucking months my entire life because you know what I was doing in this tiny galley two hours a day was a fraction what I was doing but all his knowledge was going back to him and he wasn't didn't want fine dining he just wanted really good food cooked beautifully so we met the boat in Monaco went down to Sardinia Sicily did all the south of France and then October we crossed the Atlantic and went over to Antigua and did the Caribbean it was a

tax-free salary I had an amazing cabin beautiful life I was doing three tank dives a day scuba diving and then my batteries were charging and it's an amazing world to be in but there's no governing body you can do what you want and no one's going to tell you off and so here I was in this situation you know cash positive but it wasn't enough on this glorious yacht working for this amazing owner I wanted then to you know be put to the

test I needed to be

under the spotlight and that's where I came back and

I opened my first restaurant aubergine at the age of 27 and that was set up through Marco's contacts they had these Italian partners and I got given 25% of a restaurant I knew jack shit about a P&L I didn't understand how to run a business but I could certainly cook and so it turned out I'd been given 25% of debt because this restaurant failed massively and so you learn quickly but man this tiny little bistro at the back of beyond the Fulham Road went from this little shithole to this

two-star Michelin six months fully booked an advanced restaurant that was just a little powerhouse and then I started pissing people off the big wigs in the two and three-star Michelin establishments in these hotels because this tiny little restaurant with a basement kitchen which was like a fucking hellhole half the size of this thing but nowhere near as glamorous as this and it was it was powerful we went from zero to two stars in three years what was the secret the secret was the lightness I had garnered this technique

of cooking or cuisine with very little cream very little butter but delivered something unique and nobody was doing food like that no one was no one was along that style we were uniquely individual because it was you know using beautiful poaching methods and then grilling them after we were aerating sauces and it was just it was light it was unique and it was it was attractive really attractive there's a recurring theme

as well here though about following your instincts following your gut you know you the football doesn't work out and you go down you enroll in technical college and you sort of follow your gut there and then you go and do various culinary jobs meet Marco and your gut tells you there's something this guy can teach me you knew when to take a step away and go walk on a boat you knew when to come back to London to do this and you also very cleverly understood that what people wanted on their plates at that point and you also had to follow your gut when aubergine

ended right yeah I mean I wanted security for myself I was you know we couldn't be any more successful with two star michelin on the verge of getting three but I had no ownership and then I realized that I'm fucking done working for the people I got a I got to commit and I want to work for myself and then you you risk it all again Tana and I bought our first flat together and I had to convince her that I need the money the equity to give the bank security because there's

only a three-year lease at Le Tonclerc the restaurant we're buying for restaurant Gordon Ramsey and the banks told us to fuck off there's no way we've got security on that there's no there's no head lease there's no validity in this thing so it doesn't make sense I said it will do because I've got all this knowledge I'm gonna get three stars Nana you're unproven so that really got me riled to come back with an answer fuck it I'm gonna put everything I've got into this business and it will work so that was the moment where I asked for patience from

Tana we just had our first baby Megan and it was shit or bust and there's that moment again but I've been there several times in my life how did you know it works because I've been there several times in my life I had bounced back from adversity as a youngster I was faced with shit and embarrassment going to see my parents I was protecting my mum unbeknown to my father and so all these little caveats make this big meaningful

purpose that I knew I was gonna make it

to walk away from that restaurant to risk your flat with your wife with your newborn child yeah there's a lot on your shoulders at that point I'm interested in where the little dissenting voice the doubt the imposter syndrome the fear what what role were they

playing success needs and then the lining level of jeopardy and there's no success anywhere in the world that hasn't got jeopardy I I strive for perfection my life is about high performance and when I haven't got that high performance I need to up the jeopardy because that's what creates and when I go into these situations and it's all safe and easy and a piece of cake I'll turn it upside down purposely to create a little bit more drama a

little bit more jeopardy to keep me on my toes that's self-perpetuated so you'll never see that because you won't know what level I'm turning it up or dialing it in or dialing it

down but you you know though there's a

conscious decision like I need to put something in my life here I want that because I don't want it all plain sailing I think that's the bit that I was never in doubt I had five years success at aubergine and so Royal Hospital Road was definitely gonna work I didn't take things for granted I just wanted to prove the point because I had disgruntled backers that were screwing me at the time I had 25% of the success that I created that was getting sort of trodden on and I had I had nothing to show for it so

again you you turn it up dial it in and I remember going to the bank I think it was the Bank of Scotland and I said look we're gonna operate in Monday to Friday just like the Tom Clare and these four guys and two women said you're closing Saturday Sunday it's your busiest days I said no fuck off Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday gonna be my busiest days I know but there's no restaurant that will ever succeed unless it's open for Saturday and Sunday lunch I'm like Sunday fucking lunch who's cooking Sunday lunch I'm gonna be off so that's why they literally ignored the business plan didn't

want to invest in it didn't want to give me I think was only asking for like half a million pound um I'd save something like 350,000 pound which doesn't seem a lot but back then it was fucking huge but Pierre Kaufman this amazing French man and it's very hard when French are very tough to deal with and they are incredible and so he let me pay half the money on year one and the second half the money year two out of cash flow one of the most generous strokes I've ever

seen uh by a Frenchman and so I never forget that moment no because they're tight bastards and they are but there's that mentorship thing again that someone's stepping up for you incredible and had he not done that I would have been fucked I'd never have made it so there was the double-edged sword of you know paying him back and not him getting access to the lease again and so there was so much jeopardy I'll go back to the point about I enjoyed the jeopardy because I needed that level of shit it's it's got to work so that propels you even more with the velocity of jeopardy and it's really

important in our lives to keep that jeopardy because it really does make you perform automatically and very few businesses understand the word jeopardy

is that why TV was attractive because it was another challenge oh fucking hold on a minute TV for me back then it was boiling point that was not that was not TV that was that was brutal that was a documentary you know um the following the pursuit of trying to stand on your two feet by the way I decided to watch that before this shit no Jake Jesus Christ you've got too much time on your hands was it anywhere you didn't let the cameras go I mean well listen you know that was proper reality TV but I mean I got I mean it was ironic because amazing lady called Pat Llewellyn who founded you know the naked chef and two fat

ladies and kitchen nightmares she said look you know what do you want me to do with you there's boiling point and there's the naked chef you got this Essex kid sliding down a fucking banister lovely jubbly throw it in the tray and fuck off for a game of golf come back and stuff your face and you got you running around like a fucking idiot with your head cut off uh screaming at everybody I said yeah but searching for three stars said you need to stick to what you're good at and that's perfection and so it

was interesting because I was so naive I had no idea what that fucking microphone meant because I forgot the cameras I and people say why do you get so upset because no that's the same when we're on or off camera that's me so don't don't I'm not going to play up for the sake of it I'm passionate about what I do

did you need that to get the three stars or if you did sit and watch it back now would you be going I didn't need to act like that to

be successful like ITV called me into a viewing a week before boiling point was going out and it was on channel four then it was the ITV were making it ITV studios were making it for channel four and I sat in this it was like a little fucking mini cinema there was like teas coffees biscuits I had a packet of figs I thought shit this is amazing and then uh I turned around I'm in the room on my own there's a booth with a glass wall and I could see a couple of execs back there so I fucking sat back in this chair fucking screen opened up and then

fucking the opening credits went I went oh my god that's enough thank you very much indeed I'm out of here and I yeah I think I shat an egg roll I literally shat my pants I sit back there now and I look back sometimes and I was like no no but I I couldn't quite believe just how raw that thing was and I was naive I was you know half stupid but I was in pursuit of something I'd

strive for and there was nothing that was getting in my way zero and I mean

zero because everything was depending on we're in temporary uh lodgings we had a tiny little studio Tyler had stopped working then because of Megan we couldn't afford any home help and so every dish I was sending I was focusing on that jeopardy again it's the jeopardy that keeps me buoyant to creating a high performance mechanism some may say that's a little bit too far but I didn't know any different I'm not blaming anybody because that was all my own self

doing but yeah boiling point Jesus Christ

what a moment and it led to what is now an outstanding media career with my background I find it particularly interesting I remember you bursting on the scene and as you say not just very different to Jamie Oliver right you were different to everybody and I wonder as it started to go and producers started talking to you about formats and personalities and having an impact like how how much did you think about your TV persona or I didn't not at all I I didn't give a shit so even when you were going on track shows and like saying

outrageous stuff or dropping in the odd swear word that wasn't I just that you weren't thinking how can I have the most impact in this next 10 minutes on

I never had those preconceived ideas Jake you don't go in there with that I mean

my first breakthrough was uh kitchen nightmares and I'd go into these restaurants and they'd let me off the lead at the front of the door like a fucking sniffer dog I'd go in there and there's the cameraman a sound and a producer I turned that place upside down I took those things incredibly personal and so we'd spend 10 days in this business turning the chef around redecorating the place launching it and then I'd go back a fucking month later this is for somebody else's business that's the point I'm like because I can understand why you

care about your but because you care about their business but because it wasn't a format for me it wasn't about IP or format or success remember the first program was 5.8 million viewers you know channel 4 fucking kitchen nightmares and so then all the intrusion started then everyone wanted to know who you were what was your background what what makes this guy tick I'm like I'm the same on or off that there's no and I always say there's this celebrity chef moment that we're not and we're a real chef that works on TV and so these restaurants then get put back on

the map they go out viewers flock to them these restaurants get so successful but then when when they don't work you get blamed when the Meg's successful you don't get

you don't get any thanks and so yeah kitchen nightmares was an important one for me because I think it's you got to see the sort of nuts and bolts of the industry on how how stupid some of these owners are and I just called it out I literally called it out but yeah and so that that's me by the way but then I think back to the bollockings I got with Marco or Albert Guy Savoir Joe Robichon they taught me well they taught me really well and loads of chefs

have done the TV thing no chef has done it to the level and the sustained level that you have does that also come back to the competitive nature as well uh god it's a tough one isn't it um you

know that's a really good question it's a tough one to yeah and we've just finished season 22 of hell's kitchen yeah and um it's airing next week when now they can't do it for that long without loving and you loved cooking you loved I suppose what I'm trying to say I run a restaurant Fox run a show hmm and so so it's the second so you're still the chef fucking right I am because I don't do that on a daily basis so when I get a chance to do it and run a restaurant I love it because it's me it's live the curtains are up and there's real bookings there's there's there's individuals cooking and if

the lamb is raw it's fucking raw but they're on this show for a quarter million dollars to lift their career but if you've been cooking for 10 years you can't fucking cook a rack of lamb what the fuck are you doing in here how do you deserve a quarter million dollars when you you you you you're not fit for purpose and so I can't then turn around oh shit the camera's watching oh can you hear me uh I'm gonna give it to them I'm gonna absolutely let rip and maybe that's just the way I am that's the way I'm taught so I don't want to go in there would you be so kind to pass me the raw lamb I'll serve it to

the fucking dog for dinner I just no you muppet get your shit together or fuck off

and coming back to the double-edged sword the tv career goes amazing things are flying you've popped in the states which as we all know every broadcaster in the uk would love to do and very few manage it but then at the same time some of the reviews are tricky the hardens that have some of your restaurants in the most disappointing country experiences there was huge profit drop loss of a star at claridge's I'm very interested in how Gordon Ramsay dealt with that I don't think it's

any different to a critic critiquing Man City winning the treble or Man United finishing fourth you've got to put up with that shit yeah what you do need to learn in life uh anyone in high performance is that you're judged by individuals that know less about food than you do and so it's the nature of the beast because I don't give a fuck never have done never will do but when it starts getting personal and they're launching these guides on the back of your name because they want to nominate the most disappointing meal that's that's easy mud throwing have you taken your

eye off the ball do you think or was it just no do you were there to be shut down maybe but do you

buy the hardens guide no is it still printed now I wouldn't know I've never looked at it nor would I makes two of us but this mission star would have hurt we're talking about a complete different caliber of recognition here yeah a global iconic guide that visits these restaurants incognito so Jake I sleep at night with both eyes close don't you fucking worry about that and 23 years at three mission stars trust me I'm a happy boy good let's talk about happiness then yes where does

where does family fit in to that happiness for you the balance yeah this industry is an absolute

bitch if you don't control it because it's lost too many good chefs to depression suicide it's lost too many phenomenal individuals because they've been sucked in and beaten by the industry they can't let go the minute I won my third missionary star I I learned to delegate I learned to offload and I learned to become unselfish and get those individuals to share the success that we were building

to create thoroughbreds a breeding stable and Manchester United of kitchens that can go on and win and lose on a weekly basis but still be renowned as one of the best in the world

and as we sit here today what do you still feel you have to achieve what do I have to achieve

that's a tough one anything that I've strived for from a culinary perspective

um there's one little clink in the armor I won two stars in France uh in Bordeaux

Russian Gordon Ramsay at La Presse d'Argent and I love the French I love the the sort of the the glamour of our cuisine and I think that would really sort of confirm that final notch on my sort of death bet the fact that we won three stars in France and we're one star away from that so if it happens brilliant if it doesn't so what but that would be the final the final swan song because growing up on a council estate living in 15 different shitty homes and being taught how to cook to go back to

France the sort of the birthplace of haute cuisine and win three stars but I'm so fucking close you have no idea um and yeah that's that's the one little clink yeah so we're not done yet I'll be raising

a glass to you in Norfolk when I read that news um thank you I think that is really interesting to talk about the fact that you're chasing a star how old are you now 84 how would you feel I don't feel

84 56 and how do you say chasing um let them it's it's it's a sort of it's the confirmation how good that is we are so close we are so close so yeah 56 um going back to the uh importance of the delegation and not getting sucked into it you know when you're in the orchestra you're focusing on those fine tunes and that that high octane perfection when you're conducting you've got 55 of you in the orchestra and you've got to then and that's exactly the same with the position we're in

now so coming from playing to conducting it's a very difficult transition really difficult transition um and that's what we're we're we're sort of harmonizing you know on a daily basis in a beautiful

way by the way and how old are you when you won your first star uh 28 27 so this is something I just want to touch on over more than 20 years since your first star yeah you're close to getting another one the one that you know as you say would give that ultimate confirmation yes this is the power of consistency this is the joy of longevity this is the thing that so few people manage what do you

think the secret is um brutal honesty with the team we don't sit on laurels and um we we stay in front of

the competition restaurant Gordon Ramsay today celebrates 25 years restaurants have a shelf life 72 percent of them closed in the first three years we're 24 years next year three star Michelin so so far so good because of the systems in place and there's not one plate one diner one member of the team ever taken for granted stay close to the action that's what we do and stay close to the

people that are most important to you i think before we wrap this up i've read and watched and listened to a lot of stuff and i just want to talk about tana for a moment um there right when you were at the center the epicenter of your seriously busy life uh still there today i know you went through a personal trauma losing a child a few years ago um i'd love you just to tell us the secret to a

long-term marriage which has its highs and its lows yeah the the amount of time you don't see

uh is hard and so we worked out very early on in life that the time we're going to have is make it quality so i committed to those two days off saturday sunday and she knew i was exhausted and shattered but um you need to work in harmony you need to get that level of support you need to be on the same page so the secret of that relationship is communication and then dealing with the trauma of losing you know an amazing tiny little baby and just watching that devastation unfold and everything

happening you know live and you're there you you you value each other we started off as best mates and we um we were we were young we were stupid and we we were we were skint i remember going to ask her father if i could borrow 20 grand for the deposit for a flat that we fell in love with and i thought this is all going well lunch is good i'll pay for lunch and i said oh by the way um chris you know

about that uh deposit you know tana and i we've got half of what we need the other 20 grand i'll pay

back in a year is it okay yeah uh here's what i'll do uh i'll have another lunch with you when you sell your porsche i thought you fucker but you clever fucker here i am driving around in a flash fucking

911 911 turbo conversion and tana and i loved the car and we didn't even have a fucking house didn't have a flat didn't have a roof over our heads that's the best advice he ever gave me

sell your fucking porsche i did sell it and 10 years later i went and bought it back

same car same fucking car yes how'd that feel it felt amazing i get embarrassed with the toys because

i used to be embarrassed with my father dropping us off at school with his foxhole beaver there's more fucking rust on the inside than there was on the outside and so you start getting into sort of 10 11 12 years of age and because three of us were in the same school we'd asked to be dropped off way before because this this beaten up fucking car was barely working so we'd constantly go to car auctions and buy all shit cars and start the most from their alternates from their seats from this one and this thing looked like a fucking scrapyard going to school so um i get embarrassed with what

i've invested in now as a collection of amazing supercars because it makes me feel oh god you shouldn't so that's why i track those cars but it's amazing when you can't stop thinking about

the the sort of the beginning of this journey and then you sort of you don't want to indulge but you want to enjoy the sort of fruits of your labor and before i quick fire questions that's actually

where i where i want to end you know having those cars is a real clear message for people who are maybe listening to this and maybe they are in the same place that gordon ramsay was when he was 12 13 years of age there is so many toxic messages out there telling people that they can't do certain things this idea of learned helplessness what would your message be to those young people that feel that life has dealt the cards in such a way that they're never going to be sitting in the chair that you're

listening to him right now yeah you've got every chance of success it's never around money there's a

level of success you can get just by getting out of a tiny situation you're in and then you climb that ladder one week one month one year at a time and you you pat yourself down that you've done well don't look for other people to do that for you and so there is a strong chance to do well

it it depends on you and it's finding gears that you never felt you had in your wheelhouse

and self motivation is critical and somewhere down the line we're all going to get dealt a

dysfunctional card in life just by situations and the earlier you get dealt a dysfunctional card in life the fucking better because it gives you a much stronger hand when you come to play it

beautiful quickfire questions gordon please the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the

people around you should buy into three non-negotiable behaviors um first one is you need to be a sponge

yeah the best listening device is you sponge the second one is take it professionally not personally

really important i can't stress how important that is getting told off is fucking good really healthy but take it professionally don't take it personally and the third one is thick skin

you're never going to please everyone stop worrying about keeping everybody happy in the room fuck it

it doesn't exist remember that your advice to a young gordon just starting out my advice to a young

gordon remsey stay hungry stay hungry and stay fit if you go back to one moment in your life where would

you go and why if i had one moment to go back in life uh and why guys a tough fucking question um poof

yeah um would probably be um guys a tough one in terms of jake one moment i've got 25 how long have you got

come on you know the one where one one one one moment um if i had one moment in life that i could go

back to it would be yeah never employ family we haven't even touched on that subject have we don't

need to no the press did that for us beautifully and i mean that and and i i i can say that open honestly because we have five kids and i never want to put the onus on my team oh it's fucking ramsey's daughter oh it's ramsey's son five amazing kids and what i learned uh back from 2010 was you know don't mix family and business stay independent look after the family but don't mix it

i saw meg go to work this morning and she took a degree from moxford brooks and she's now uh in the met police and she's putting her stab vest on and you think god you know everything i've done and created it's too easy to say hey meg go and run one of daddy's restaurant there's no fucking way she wants anything to do she loves the restaurant she's a great chef but she's now a police officer and that gives me such amount of happiness to see that individuality jack as a rural marine commando

and training and just just what where he is now four years into the marines holly into the fashion and

tilly into her university her final year we're gonna have two of the kids that have got degree we we didn't get a levels we didn't get university wasn't even on our agenda so you you you have to you have to understand how hard it is for those kids because it's too easy just to fall onto your parents radar and pick them up and stick them in a restaurant because they can't be fucking bothered and no and that's the strength of tana and i communicating together and feeding off each other's

strengths and supporting our weaknesses love that and the final question your your one final message really to the people that have listened to this fascinating conversation and thank you for sharing so much with us your one golden rule if you like to living a high performance life

my one golden rule to living a high performance life is um never fear a storm

learn to dance in the rain it's got me through so much shit in my life i'm so happy when people tell

me be careful it's stormy out there i fucking love it you

you