Mourinho Exclusive: Managing Football's Biggest Rivalries!

How do you reflect on your time at United?

I love my time there.

I don't think media helped me.

I refused great working opportunities.

The first one was even very, very hard to refuse because it was Portugal.

I could be their coach in the national team.

Also yours.

I had it there on the table.

No way.

Yeah, I didn't because I gave everything.

I gave my heart.

I gave even options that could be considered not very clever by the professional point of view.

Cristiano Ronaldo.

Do you even coach him?

I think you don't coach.

Jose, we need to know what is next.

Welcome back to Five, Steven Howson, Rio Ferdinand and today we have got Jose Mourinho, the special one.

We have got him exclusively.

This is presented by football.com.

This is part one.

There's going to be a few episodes.

If you want the full audio, you can check the link in the description for the full audio download.

In this part, we're going to be talking about AS Roma, what happened and we're going to be talking about his entire career in this one.

So let's check it out.

Jose, firstly, thank you very much for allowing us to come and speak to you here in rainy Lisbon.

I know.

I know.

I feel ashamed.

It's an attack to our prestige.

I had sunglasses.

I had suntan lotion.

I know, me too.

Me too.

I come to Lisbon with this intention to, so.

Listen, I think there's only one place to kick off.

I think the recent news, obviously, Roma, your departure there.

I actually can't believe we're here sitting, talking to you with that as the backdrop, because two back-to-back finals, the fans in the stadium full up.

I could see it from just from England, looking in, how much the fans adore you there.

What kind of happened and got us to here now?

I own a decision.

And you have to respect.

Don't even discuss, you know?

Of course, I feel, and I believe that you feel the same as me, that the fans are always the heart of a football club.

Without them, no football club.

But there is an ownership.

And when the owner decides, you have just respect.

Hmm.

Is that, would you say that was one of the most painful kind of exits for you?

Because it was so sudden?

I can say it's the one that hurt me more.

I can say that.

You can ask me why.

Because I gave everything.

I gave my heart.

I gave even some options that could be considered not very clever by the professional point of view.

I refused great working opportunities.

The first one was even very, very hard to refuse, because it was Portugal, and Portugal was probably the best national team ever.

Three years before the World Cup.

Then I had a big one from Saudi.

I didn't hide it at the time, because it was really big.

And I did it for, I don't say the first time, but normally I'm very pragmatic in my choices.

I'm very professional in my choices.

I try always to be very emotionally controlled, and you could see that.

For example, when I left other clubs after winning finals and this kind of thing.

And in this case, I was not pragmatic, I was emotional, I gave everything.

So in the end, when I left, I left, I hurt it.

I had the great feeling of I gave so much happiness to the people.

Because two finals, two European finals in a row doesn't happen often, especially in a club like Roma, without a big history of European success.

And then I was walking in the street and the people take us to Dublin, take us to Dublin, take us to Dublin.

And I had that Dublin in my mind.

I had that third European final in a row in my mind.

But then you have to respect.

The owner is always the owner.

And you have to respect the decision, which is what I'm doing now.

Did you feel like you got your spark back at Roma?

Because you looked like you got your spark back at Roma.

I don't want to speak about Roma more than what we did, especially going into

the intimacy of myself and the football club.

I always felt this way. I always did it this way.

It's not the first time I left the club.

It's probably the first time I am feeling it in a different way.

But I always felt that is the right way to do it.

You know, you leave the club by your decision or by the club decision and then you move on.

You try to learn from the experience.

You try to be better for the next one.

But I don't like to dig in and I don't even like to speak publicly about it.

Just I want to talk about you as well.

I think I've played against your team.

It's always difficult to play against.

Always hard games.

It's still difficult.

But when I played personally, it was always difficult.

You played against big rivals.

And you played against teams with the same potential as yours, with the same ambition as your team.

We were playing to win it.

You were playing to win it.

So let's say from strength to strength.

I say that even when my team is not a top team, even when my team is not a team with more potential, it's always difficult to play against us.

It's always difficult to play against us.

Because we start always from the base that a team has to be a team.

And then, of course, you have that by your experience.

When you had the team with the best players, it's different than you have a team without the best players.

But it's true.

I feel exactly that way.

And sometimes when I see football when it's too easy for the better team to beat the team with less potential, I always ask myself why and how is it possible.

Because I always feel that a team, even if it isn't a team with more potential, has to make it difficult.

Because by organization, by tactical work and by a very strong mentality, even if you are not a team with more potential, you still can do it.

Not do it in the sense of winning titles.

Because to win titles, you need, of course, a big potential.

But to give you the feeling that you had to play against that guy is always difficult.

I think it has to be always difficult.

And part of the question was, creating those teams and help creating that culture within those teams,

what's the difference between doing it, maybe them years ago, the teams I played against, compared to the current type of generation of players now?

What's the difference being able to create those cultures?

Because it's new age, right?

I think what you are speaking about different generations,

I was going in the initial part of my answer, I was going more in the difference of potential.

In the difference of potential, I think it creates also a different way of playing and creates also a different way of approaching.

I always say, you have to be arrogant on the pitch when your team is the best one.

And you have to be more cautious when your team is not the best one.

When your team is the best, you have to show your power.

When your team is not the best, you have to hide or try to hide your problems, to try to create a balance. Going from generation to generation, I just, I don't have the feeling of previous generations are better than now, or people of 20 years ago has a different approach to what people have now.

I think in the end, the same ingredients are there. But of course, we can feel that looking just to

to you. It is a great podcast, isn't it?

I hope it is.

25 years ago, podcasts?

No.

No, podcasts. So communication was very, very different. I feel that a journalist now,

what is a journalist now. Do you know what I mean?

What was a coach or a manager 25 years ago, what is now, is also difficult to compare.

And in relation to the players is also difficult to compare. There is an evolution in everything.

And there is an evolution in terms of mentality.

Years ago, probably I thought there is my ideal of what a player should be. There is my ideal of what a professional should be. But to transport this in pure terms to today, I think is wrong. Because we are speaking about a completely different world. What for us, 20 years ago, was impossible to happen, now happens and is impossible to change.

Social media is a big thing as well.

Everything. You know, when I was an assistant coach in Barcelona, it was the beginning of the of the mobile phones. And it was forbidden for the players to be on the mobile phone.

Do you think it's forbidden now?

I don't know. Half time they're on the phone, no?

Almost. Or maybe. Or maybe. Or maybe, yes. So you have to adapt to that. I think I adapted very, very well. I think I adapted very, very well to that. I like to feel young. And to feel young when you work amongst the young guys, you just have to adapt. But trying to keep a certain line of what a professional has to be or what a professional should be. And I think we are in a world where people make football players more individual. They are more individual in everything.

the way they think, the personal ambitions, the people around them, the structure around them.

The club has a nutritionist, but they have one. The club has a huge structure of sports science, but they have their men. Probably one day, a great coaching staff, but maybe at home, the goalkeeper coach has another goalkeeper. The goalkeeper has another goalkeeper coach. Everything becomes more individual. And I think the fight, if you can call it a fight, is to try to make these individuals be a

team. Be a team. I think this is the fundamental fight, if you can call it a fight.

What do you think is most important then when you're trying to build a team? Is it the raw ability

or is it character? In relation to the individuality?

Well, building, just building a team to win.

You know, I think the first thing to build a proper team is the connection, is the connection between the structures. The players, and I think you will laugh of it, the players are very intelligent.

Intelligent? Yeah. If not intelligent in terms of IQ, because not everyone, of course, is. But that specific intelligence, the feeling of analyzing things, of feeling things, of reading things, even in between the lines, the players are very clever. The players are very, very intelligent. They look and they understand. They look to each other and without the words, and without the words they know what they are saying. I think they feel the strength and they feel the fragility. And in this moment where the

structures of the clubs are very complex, I think it's very important that the players they feel that they are complex, but they are compact. In your time you just need to look to Sir Alex, look at him and in two seconds you understand what you have in front of you, and then you respect. Maybe a little bit of fear, but not, I prefer to say respect. And then you trust, and then you believe, and then you know that if you make something wrong, you are in trouble, is not in trouble. You know that you are not going to

manipulate anybody. You don't care about the press. Everything is clear. Everything is clear.

In this moment the structures are very complex, but I think the structures must be built in a way where complexity doesn't mean problems and sometimes that complexity has to be transformed in something where it is easy for the players to understand that there are no conflicts, there is empathy and there is something strong behind the players, behind or before the players' performance. I think this is the most

important thing. When you have this and you have a good communication between the structure,

I think anything is possible. I want to move on to things like the rivalries. You've played in some huge clubs. I mean, I manage huge clubs. Where would you say the biggest rivalries have been?

Because it seems intense in Roma, but equally, if not more, in Madrid, Chelsea and London. Where, in Porto as well, where has been the rivalry you've gone? Oh my God, that is different.

You know, it is everywhere, to be honest. Roma, Spain, Portugal is hard. England, I believe, with more with more discipline, but the rivalries, of course, you know that they are very, very strong in Latin countries, in Latin cultures, becomes maybe you can feel more the emotion of it,

even on the negative side, even with some aggression, even with some violence before, after matches.

England is, I believe, much more structured nowadays, luckily, without this level of problems. But I would say that my times at Real Madrid, these three years in Real Madrid were years of a huge rivalry with Barcelona. Also because it was not just the cultural and historical rivalry, but also the moment. The moment.

I don't want to say the best players in the world, because, of course, England always had

incredible players. But maybe in that moment there, the best Cristiano, the best Messi, the best Benzema, the best Higuain, the best Iniesta, Di Maria, everything was there. Barcelona, the best team in the world. Real Madrid trying, trying to change that perspective. In the same season, league matches, Super Cup matches,

Cup finals, Champions League quarterfinals, everything all together. And I felt that in that period there, the world stopped for Barca-Real, Real-Barca, the world stopped there. And we were feeling that. Then one season Barcelona wins it. Then the next season, Real Madrid wins it. It was beautiful. Beautiful. But I think

if I could say it because of the intensity at every level, it was probably there. Then...

Do you enjoy that? I remember big pressure situations, Champions League semifinals, finals, the rivalries. In the moment, I don't think I've really ever enjoyed it. I was in more relief after you win. Like, those moments, are they enjoyable for you as a manager? You know... When it's so

interesting. I have to say that it was hard, but then you feel that you cannot go higher than that.

For you to have an example. For us to win the league, we did 100 points. You know that if you don't do 98, 99, 100, you don't win it. You know that if you have a draw, you are in trouble because Barcelona wins.

For sure. Then the next season, the previous season when Barcelona wins, I think we lost with 92 points, 91 points, something like that. So you know that you make a mistake, you are in trouble. You have to win.

You have to win. You have to win. You have to win. You have to win. And then, if you have guys like

Cristiano, for example, where you are playing against Levante, you are winning 5-0, you tell the guy...

Relax. Come on, take a rest. No, no, no. I can score one more goal when you have guys like this.

You know, the boat is in the water and you just let the boat go. And in the end, you enjoy the fight.

And we did. But of course, it's easy. I don't know. Maybe because of that pressure, maybe because of that tension.

And after the second year, Pep went to a sabbatical year. Maybe because of that, on the third season, I spoke with the president and I told him, I think it's better for me to go. I think it's better for me to go to Chelsea and change a little bit more. No, Josef, please don't do it. Now it's time where we are going to win it and kill because the most difficult time is gone. President, I agree. The most difficult time is gone, but it's also time for me to go. It's draining, tired. Yeah, yeah. You can say a little bit,

a little bit like that when the tension is high. I think in this moment in Spain, people miss these times. I think they miss it because it becomes something different. But I would say that that period was tremendous. But Benfica-Porto, Porto-Benfica, United-Liverpool, Liverpool-United, Chelsea-Arsenal, Lazio-Roma, Inter-Juve, more than Inter-Mille. Is it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People, people, I don't know. Because maybe AC wasn't doing as well then maybe?

I don't know. But the first derby I played Inter against Milan, I remember clearly, I was in, I was in the bus and I was looking and, you know, people together with Milan scarves, with Inter scarves, you know, really, really nice, really friendly. I didn't feel it as that big, big derby when Inter-Juve is, when you, when you feel, when you feel that something is not going historically well in between them.

What's your pre-match routine look like? You give your team talk an hour before the kick-off, the lads go and warm up. Do you sit in the changing room on your own? Do you go and watch the warm-up?

You know, first of all, the guys, they know the team even before I say, always. I don't remember, there is a game where the guys, they don't know who is going to play. Because the work you do before, the work you do during the week, normally the players, they know. Sometimes you can mix a little bit, sometimes you can try to these guys a little bit, you know, sometimes a leak of information, you don't want it to happen. But normally the guys, they know, the guys, they know. There is,

I always say that the big work is done before the match day. During the match day, my work as a coach and my staff, you know, is to be on the bench to analyze the unpredictability of the game and be ready to answer to it. But normally the job is done. My routine, I'm probably one of the few guys that is not superstitious. I'm not at all. That's good. I'm not at all. I think we have enough pressure to have another extra pressure of being superstitious with something, you know. Not. I like the players to be

by themselves in that period before the warm-up. I don't like to go. Especially at home, when you have your little office, I don't like to go to the dressing room. Let them be, let them communicate. Let them do what they want. Let them feel comfortable. Then, of course, be with the guys

before the game a few minutes and be with them for 90 minutes and play with them for 90 minutes and be what you think the team needs you to be for 90 minutes. But no big routines.

Right. That was genuinely incredible. Really enjoyed that. That was part one. There are more parts coming in part two. We're going to get into Manchester United. Thanks again to football.com for helping us sort this interview out. Make sure to go and check out part two as soon as it drops.

If you want the full audio, check the link in the description. I'll see you in the next one.