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Jürgen Klopp discusses his football philosophy, leadership style, and personal journey. He emphasizes the importance of building strong team culture, individual player development, and embracing challenges. He shares insights into his management approach at Mainz, Dortmund, and Liverpool, reflect...
Published October 20, 2025
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Jurgen Klopp
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Interviewer: So it begs the question, do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? Interviewee: It's possible.
Interviewee: To win in a very decisive moment, you have to be the best team and to be the best team, everybody has to buy into that team and walk through fire together. What do I get people to walk through fire? I better go back to the start. My mom was very caring, she loved people and my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the things, even with football. My teammates were better than me and I thought I only can get on that level from the first until the last minute, I was a warrior on the pitch, but it made me the guy I am today. And so my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band because you have 19 minutes and there's no guarantee to get anything, but the only chance to get something is to give you all. So do you want to have the maximum success? Don't waste time with holding back.
Interviewee: No, they tried, but there are some reasons in that conversation which I didn't like.
Interviewee: That's super smart, not changing much.
Interviewee: Nobody ever told me that it's possible, that we can spend that.
Interviewer: I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realise you didn't subscribe. So if you could do me a favour and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here, to keep everything going in this show, in the trajectory it's on. So please do double check if you subscribed and thank you so much. Because in a strange way, you're part of our history and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So yeah, thank you. Jürgen, to understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career and still are, what do I need to understand about your very earliest context, where you came from? And how, can you point out to me how that very early context created the person you are today and that everybody knows you to be? [00:02:15]
Interviewee: Jürgen, I think we all are who we are because of the environment we grew up. My dad was a salesman and my mum came from a family and my grandpa had a brewery and she worked there, blah, blah, blah and all these kind of things. So, but her only purpose was her kids. She loved me more than her own life, definitely. And my dad had expectations. He loved me as well, but he had expectations, but my mum didn't. So my mum was just happy that I was there. And my dad had always something where he was not really happy with. And all the things my dad wanted me to do, I loved doing. So he wanted me to be a sports guy, each sport, tennis, skiing, football, that was his life. So he wanted that his son is good at that and he loved doing it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out and say, go outside and play something. But then pretty quick, when I became better, it was never good enough. And I was, he always, so that was the process. So that's how I was brought up. That's him. That's definitely him. Yeah. Can I keep this picture? Of course you can keep. That's good. That's good. Because I have them, but I'm not sure where. Yeah, exactly. Good looking guy, yeah? Yeah. Was he a tough, tough man? Yeah. It's not long ago. I never, I never got hit by whatever, never, never, never. It was just, he wanted to, to bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted. Tough in a way, yeah? How people who are brought up in that time probably, but not tough, endless, that you thought, you don't want to have to do anything with him. No, no, no. I loved him to bits and he loved me. He was very proud, but never, never said it. And these kinds of things. So he was a good guy, a really good guy. But with his son, he wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid that I might be not ambitious enough.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reading about stories of him racing you on ski slopes and sprint races and never letting you win. Interviewee: That's true. Who knows if it was right? Probably it was right. I don't know. It was not nice in a way. When you tell the story, it's like, my God, come on, let the poor boy win or whatever. But he had no chance. It's just, you stand on the touchline and you run to the halfway line.
Interviewee: The one skill I realized that my dad had without knowing that time it was a skill he could speak publicly. You don't know that you have that, but I have it. Today I know it. I don't care if a camera is in my face or whatever. I say what I have to say in that moment without being too worried. What might people think about it? If I'm convinced it's right. And I say talking in public is not a problem. It's probably from him. My love for people unintentionally is from my mom. So this mix of a very confident and a very caring, very confident dad and very caring mom is where I was brought up in the middle of it.
Interviewer: Yeah, that's true. Why, why, why doctor? Interviewee: No, it was always, it was something I wanted to do. So in all this wonderful upbringing, it was pretty clear that money is an issue, not in a sense that we didn't have enough. We always had kind of enough. But I remember discussions, bad discussions about money, arguments if you want, who spent that, who spent that. I was the little one. I just sat around and listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I, when I realized I have to earn a lot of money that I can sort at all. Well, I wanted to earn money to not having this kind of discussions with my wife or with the kids or whatever. So it grew as a, as a, as a thought when you are a young man and you think, what could you do with life? And for me, it was clear, I cannot earn my money with football because in my mind I wasn't good enough. And then I got surprised by some people. They thought, oh, there's something that could be interesting.
Interviewee: So in my village, I was a best player in my village. So I scored the goals. I was the fastest, all this kind of physical talent. I was really fast. Later on, when I studied sports science, I could jump far, I could jump high, all these kinds of things. So it was a physical talent. I was literally surprised by the approach from, from professional football clubs. I didn't think, oh, who's coming? So it was like, the question was, are you number seven from the game before? Yeah. Oh, come on. Let's have a chat. Do you want to come to Frankfurt? That was the question. It was before that. It was 87.
Interviewer: Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot happens in your 20th year of life. Interviewee: Yeah. A lot happens. That was a change. Wow. Yeah. I came to Frankfurt. It didn't take long that I met Mark's mom.
Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. And then she got pregnant and December 88, I became a father.
Interviewer: 20 years old, become a father? Interviewee: Massively. When I heard she's pregnant, I wanted to run away and go, oh God, it's not me. So, the moment when I got aware of the fact that I will be a dad, I was really scared. The night, 13th December of December, 1988, when Mark was born, was the night when I became an adult and the night who changed my life in the right direction. From that moment on, I was always more an adult than all the other people in my age group. So, they were at the university, there were parties, I couldn't go. They went on holiday, I couldn't. I played football, low wages, third division Germany, had two other jobs, one in the morning, one at night, and playing semi-professional football. That taught me the discipline I didn't have to learn at home, because I had no jobs to do in the house. So, I got it a bit later, but it made me the guy I am today.
Interviewee: Yes, of course. I don't just want to say I like people, and I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I want to hear it.
Interviewer: And I was wondering if there's any truth to that, if they have a different stability or… Interviewee: Oh, it's probably, yeah. A couple of problems, you can have a great partner, married or not, and then everything is fine. It's the wrong partner, it's not great. You have no partner, not great for some, and you have too many, it's not great. So there are so many things in life, so I never thought about that. I heard about it. I coached in Germany, a very successful manager, Otto Rehagel, I love him to bits, fantastic guy. He had as well, I think he said it once as well, that he wants married players because they go home and stuff like this. Yeah, that's not, that's one part of the personality, but not the overwhelming or the most decisive or whatever. So it's like, and you need, football is a football game, you need the cheeky ones as well. So you need them, the street smart, you need as well. They get out of situations in life and on the pitch, stuff like this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I treated them, let me say 50% of the time, completely the same. And 50% what he needs, what he needs, what he needs, but in front of the other teammates. So players came to me, why do you treat me like that? You would never say that to him. No, because he's from Argentina, grew up without a window and you are from Munich and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him, really. To bring all these people from different areas in the world together, you cannot expect that they all tick the same way. It's just not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in Senegal. It is different. So, but then we come together in our dressing room and then everybody says, so this is the rule for all of you. And yeah, be in time, of course, for all. Easy. But then all the other stuff, come on, calm down. You want a football team full of different skill sets, full of different talent, full of different personalities. You want that because that's what you need. That's what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one, I don't know, helmet over it and say, so that's for all of you. That's how we go. There are moments in the game where they have to act like this. In all the other, in all the other moments, they have to be themselves. So treat them like that.
Interviewer: And to hear you say the same thing as well, it, it, it really is the opposite of what you hear in business. In business, you hear that you have to be a consistent leader, that you have to be consistent, treat people the same. Um, but in the world of football, people like you tell me, that's my true. Interviewee: I think in business, in life, it's the same. So to lead, that's one, number one thing you lead yourself. So that's the first one in the morning, you stand up, you have to kick your own butt and say, come on, it's not a great estate, but anyhow, we go. And then, then the people you lead, you need to understand to do it properly. So now that means you, you, you talk to them, you listen to them, you ask them, where are you from? What's your background? What are we doing here and there? And why did you do that? And stuff like this. So it means it's already in that conversation, it's clear he's different to the other guy. It's not about the rules like punctuality, early in, late out, not about these kinds of things, but how can we get the best out of people if we treat them all the same? It's crazy. It's in business. I don't think it is like that, but I've never, I only worked in this football business. So maybe it's just working here. I cannot see that. For me, it's super important that you really pick the individual from where it stands, not from where you want it to be. No, actually where it actually is.
Interviewee: So you have a young player as an example. So Trent Alexander comes up to the first team, and then James Milner is already, I don't know, 31 or whatever he was that time. So James makes clear, first and foremost, that Trent doesn't go crazy because he sorts all these kinds of things. But there are so many things, just as an example, but James doesn't have to do this and that because you know he is doing it anyway. So for Trent, you still have to educate the boy. This example, which you probably didn't think of, but it explains how different they are. There are different age groups. One is 16 or 17, and the other one is 33. So that shows already that it's not possible. So you are talking about the rules in football. So everybody has to work hard. Everybody has to do it. In my case, everybody has to defend the shit out of the opposition team. So everybody has to buy into that. There's no, no, no, no. I always said, if you're not Lionel Messi, you have to defend. You have to defend. Because I never had Lionel Messi, so they all had to defend. For example, everybody has to do that. But then to get there, that they really grow together as a group. In a group, everybody accepts that they are different. Otherwise, we are, I don't know, an army. And they are different. But it's not just because we are the same shirt. We have all our own qualities. So to bring them to life or let them shine, yeah, you have to get treated in the right way. And that's what I love to figure out. How is that possible? That was the conversations I had, the conversation with players during a season. Of course, there were football talks, but we had already enough meetings. The most important conversations were the private conversations. Why are, so when the player is not training well, could be, could, that he just is not ready for training. Had a drink last night, didn't sleep enough. Or you ask. So that's all what you think. He looks like he didn't sleep enough. You bring him in, ask him, what's going on? And he will be surprised. Most of the time, they either slept enough or didn't sleep enough for the right reason. Because something happened and nobody could sleep. They had no drink, blah, blah, blah. But they lost focus right now because massive problems at home. Without asking, you will never find out. So here's one guy with a problem. Here's another guy. He's flying. Don't treat them the same. The one needs more support and the other one you need to bring down a little bit. So all these kind of, that's how you work with people. In the end, what you want is that the job of a leader is to make the target, the aim, the final destination, whatever, that clear, like the sun, that everybody's automatically going there. And you don't have to push them every day and say, by the way, there's the sun. Let's run there. So that they know it. On the way there, you support them in different ways. It's not so important what I want to say in a moment of anger or whatever. It happens. Emotion, do that to us, especially around a football game. You shout something, did I really say that? But it's not so important in a talk conversation with people, which depend on you, you are responsible for. It's not so important what you say. It's much more important what they need to hear. It's not them telling them what they want to hear. No, what they need to hear to deal with their situation. So that's what leadership means. Not just telling them off for whatever. That doesn't work. That doesn't work. Try to understand why. And that was, I love that part in my job. And I still do that, if you want, right now. Not with world-class players all the time or coaches, point directors, whatever. They're all young. Younger than me, at least. And that's how I understand my role and understood my role.
Interviewee: Yeah, of course. Of course. You have them. Sadio Mane and Mo Salah are two top examples. So, in the end, not a lot of people who saw it coming. We knew they are great. We knew they are massive talents. They have fantastic potential. But they were not who they became later on. In that time, it's not that they came to Liverpool and said, Boss, I just want to tell you, I defend anyway, so we don't have to talk about that. Just explain to me how we do it. And we, obviously, to be successful as a football team, you have to organise a football team to get stability. To get stability, you need to find a way to defend properly and together. If you have that, based on that, they can start flying. Then we, then let's talk about the football part. So, and now there are obviously no defenders, but we were famous for our pressing and counter-pressing. I talked a lot to them and it was, and the way we spoke about it was just 100% clear. You want to win more often than not. You want to have the maximum success. You want to be able to become the best team in England at one point. Yeah? Okay, then do that. Come on. So, agreement. And then from there, we went on. But then with years, and not because they changed or whatever, here a little bit less, there a little bit less, and I have to decide, do I go for them? Like I would go for a young boy playing in that position and say, come on, turn, run, fight, jump, and take them off in a moment. No, of course not. You don't do that in that moment. It's a, it's a story in the newspaper. We had this one argument, I think, with Mo at West Ham at the, at the sideline when it didn't start and I brought him on and he was not happy. The problem, our problems then are always in public. It was not a real big thing, but in the moment, we didn't agree, definitely. So, how do you deal with that the next day? I think I can say, we have a very good relationship today, even though on that day it didn't look like. And that's all the things. So, you learn, you try to do it the right way, you try to show the players respect, but at one point, it's never enough. And you have to accept that as well, because the players, they grow, they get bigger and bigger and bigger. And at one point, you hear years later, he never spoke to me. Whatever, another player from wherever says about a former coach, about me, about Jose Mourinho, he never spoke to me. I don't know, we spoke a lot. We just can't remember. And we didn't speak what you wanted. I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. So, you can never make it 100% right, but you can only do as good as it's possible for you. And that's what I tried all the time, to create a relationship where even when we had arguments, we always found a way out as me, player. And it never got carried into the team, that I lost respect, they lost respect for me because I acted that way. So, we always stayed together. We always find a way that they understood, okay, it's really important that we get through this, that they sorted, the boss sorted with him or the boss sorted with us, that we can go from here again.
Interviewer: And I wondered why, what was it that you were doing from a very young age that meant all of your coaches back then asked you to be captain of the team? Interviewee: I have no clue. The coach I learned the most of, Wolfgang Frank, when he came back to Mainz, he was at Mainz, very successful spell, left. And then we were in trouble again, he came back, and I was the captain. And we had a very experienced player from a first division team coming to Mainz in the second division, Lars Schmidt was his name. So, and Wolfgang, it's like, Jürgen, can we talk? Yeah, of course. Jürgen, I want to make Lars the captain. Oh, yeah, good. So, then you are not captain, I'm like, yeah, I know. So, it was exactly like that. It meant nothing to me. So, my role was not, I was a leader in the team, not on purpose. I was on the pitch, an aggressive leader, which I didn't like. So, heart rate above 140, I lost it very often, in a very, very, not good way. So, really aggressive talk, shouting at everybody, and in all that, really, it was, I had to, very often, I had to apologize to my teammates.
Interviewer: There's a real dichotomy with you, because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you, in terms of the empathy and the love of people. But then there's this other explosive part. Interviewee: I didn't like it at all. And I was afraid, when I stopped playing, that I'd take it over. So, I was emotional, I had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like that. But, generally, I was really, I'm a very calm person. So, people think, because I'm probably, I think I'm a motivator or whatever I do, get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say, come on, boys, today we go again. Not at all. I mean, it happens from time to time, but not that often. No, I have no explanation for it. But, if I would have had an explanation, it was a little bit, I knew I'm not good enough, actually. My teammates were better than me. And I thought, I only can get on that level if I squeeze everything out from an aggressive point of view, stuff like this. So, that was a bit my explanation, because they are so much better. But, if I calm down and want to play cool football, yeah, I'm out.
Interviewer: Yeah. You're my age when you get that job, and the former manager's been sacked. The club have never gotten to the Bundesliga, the first division in Germany. You don't have experience managing a club of this size or scale previously. The chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says, they want you to do the job. Why did they want you to do the job? Interviewee: Because I didn't find anybody else in the short period of time. So, we played Sunday, and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was just to do that game. So, the whole story is that Eckhard Grauzohn, the manager at that time, we lost the game on Sunday, and we had a little camp, a crisis camp, let me say, because on Wednesday was another very important game. We had to play, so he took us to a hotel, that we stayed there, have two good sessions, and then we go for this very, very important and maybe decisive game. And at night, we had a meeting, a meeting with all the players, and he said, gentlemen, I want to ask one question, do you still trust me? Are you still behind me? I don't want to answer now. I order beer for all of you. I go out, half an hour, I come back, and you tell me. So, he goes out, we just bring some beer in, we sit there, look at each other and think, huh? And discuss a little bit. And I was not captain at that time. I was not the captain. But then, it's like that, the decision's no. What? Yeah, he asked. Why, you ask? No. No, no. So, and it's like, everyone's in it. Now, we have a discussion, yeah, the majority. Some people, some players didn't speak, but it was clear. If you ask, the answer is no. So, it's like that, I'm not captain, but the captain says, Globo, you tell him. I tell him. Why? Oh, okay, but he comes in, he comes in, and he said, and, and that, actually, no. And he was shocked. He was really shocked. He was like, he didn't expect it. It's more like a little thing to do, and then we say, yes, we go through that together, something like that, but we said, no. Why? Because he was not the right person. Why? Because we played bad, and he was, I love Eckhard Grauzen, but that time for that team was really, he was just not the right coach. That can happen. It doesn't say anything about you. But we did, wrong training, wrong lineups, wrong tactics, wrong everything. So, that's how things go bad in the wrong direction in that time. And we had no, that time, and we didn't have to make the decision, yeah, who can take over, or that we just could say no. He could have said, okay, I will prove you wrong, or whatever. But he ran out and said, tomorrow morning, nine o'clock training. Okay. And then he wanted to do a press conference where he wanted to tell the public that he kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the rest of the season and plays only the young kids. So, I was one of the old players. I was 33. But I didn't know that that should happen. So, he called the sporting director, we need a press conference, and I want to talk to them and tell them we change everything. And the sporting director says, yeah, we do a press conference, but the subject will be, we sack you. Okay. So, done. And now they didn't have a coach. And then they called me, and for that game, can you do it? And I said, yeah, yeah, I can do it. And I did it, and we won the game. And they didn't find a manager, so we had Sunday and other games. The first game, we won 1-0. The second game, we won 3-1. Yeah, from the first seven games, we won six and drew one. So, and we stayed in the league pretty comfortably. Comfortably is incredible. We were a bunch of friends. They were all my friends, and I was their boss. They had to tell me that I changed from now on in the coaches dressing room. What are you doing here? Yeah, here's the coaches. That's your office. Okay. The first night, we had a twin room. Yeah. So, and I got one more game to sleep there with my friend, you and Klamny, they're in the same room. And then the next day, they all told me, yeah, you get your own room. Oh, okay. So, but all the rest, we were a real bunch of friends. And they respected me from the first second.
Interviewee: We had Wolfgang Franke, very, very, the best manager we all had when we were at Mainz. She was an exception. We, at Mainz, we were a football team who lost all the games when the other team had better players. I think it sounds normal, but, you know, in football, it's a way to win games anyway. We never had that. So, then Wolfgang Franke comes in and implements four in the back, ball-orientated defending. And we did nothing else than that. And we changed overnight into the one opponent nobody wanted to play against. We were like machines. We were like machines. We were not great footballers. We were like machines. There were games. Our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending. It was new that time. So, it was really for all of them. It means we all became believers in that. Then Wolfgang left. And none of the other coaches could do that.
Interviewee: There was no connection to the coaches after Wolfgang. So, I was one of the players who benefited massively from Wolfgang Franke. And now I arrived. And the only thing I did when I, the two sessions I had were both exactly about that. Four for two, ball-orientated movements. And we go for MSV Duisburg that time. They were third in the table. We go for them like nobody else. But I like these moments. I like to find a reason why it makes sense that why we give our absolute all in a moment like this. Why we don't invest only the minimum. Why invest the maximum. Why we would regret it if we don't do it. How better life is if we do it. How much more fun it is if we do it. I love these moments. And probably something like that. I told them. And from that moment on, nobody wanted to play against us anymore. So, like, we were like, wow, animals. It was great. It was a fantastic time. Same team pretty much changed overnight.
Interviewee: Show the, they wrote us off. Show the outside world. Whatever you can do. Most of the time it was real life. But that time, so, in my meetings later on, I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever. Our life was preparation. What happened during the week with us in the world. That was preparation for a meeting. I never thought long about it. Just remembered it when I needed it. We spoke. I told the boys. But that time, they needed one person to believe in them. And I did. It was not that I had to convince myself. I have to tell them now. Before that season, I told in an interview, this is the best squad my team ever had. It would be really difficult for me to play. But good for us that the team is so good. And then we were in a hopeless situation before I took over. So, when I became the manager, I was the one who thought, this team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet. But we will make sure in a few weeks they will have a sense, at least.
Interviewee: That's all. It's all about that. It's not football. It's life. If you had no, when you started your podcast, people probably told you, well, that might be something for you. But you were not sure. And then with each little thing here and there, oh, how many people listened to your first podcast? Do you remember? No, no, no. I think I read it somewhere. 40? Something around that. It was under 100. Yeah. So, it's a start. So, it's a start. And all the rest is if you want history. And that's always in life like that. That it's just, give it a chance. Of course, it makes sense you believe in yourself. But not everybody can do that. But then if you meet somebody who helps you with that, who has a perspective, who can see something in you, yeah, then tell. Tell them. Why you should keep it for yourself. Oh, my God. I think he's a talent. She's a talent. Whatever. Well, yeah, she's good at that. He's good at that. We don't tell each other. So, where's the problem? Did someone do that for you? It told you that you should believe in yourself. They saw something in you. Once I said, I never struggled with confidence. But I don't know why. That's the truth. But it's true. I never struggled with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in school were genius. And we sat together doing exactly this, reading the same books, invested the same amount of time. They had the best A-levels in school. And I was far off that. So, a normal reaction would be, I'm a dump, obviously. But I never thought that. And I don't really know why that happened. So, I took it how it was. I thought, oh, respect. You can remember all these things. Crazy. I can't.
Interviewee: Yeah. Yeah. I tried to create a situation to make sure that the player, if they are not confident yet, they are confident. But, you know, there are moments when they lose it. Confidence is like, perhaps, once there's a little flower and constantly somebody steps on it. It's like that. Oh, and then it's growing again. And, oh, now we are confident again. Stuff like this. In football, it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making mistakes. So, if a mistake costs you confident, that's a real challenge. But I try to. If you would believe as much in yourself as I do, that would be a start. But as long as you cannot do that, just trust me. So, you are good because I don't work with, not with other players. I don't waste time. I don't. That's what, and it's true, I don't. So, I really, I really see something. And if I see it, I'm patient enough to work on it. Much more patient than the public wants me to be. But, of course, the idea is that one day I help you learn flying, but in the end you have to fly yourself, obviously. I cannot do that for you. That's what it is, football. You have to perform alone. They cannot look at me. What should I do? And that's my job, is to prepare them as good, to make it the education, the coaching, as wide. I just pick for my dad's idea, but not too much as well. It's, yeah, it's obviously, it was a good time in my life doing all these kind of things. I worked with some of the best footballers in the world. Really good time.
Interviewee: Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I ever had to lie, to be honest, I don't know. But we protect players. Super important. So, for me, super important. He lacks confidence. That's in football obvious. You see that. You run one-on-one on a goalie, and you don't make it. You can see it. It's because you don't have confidence. That's how it is. There's not a lot of other reasons. It can be wind, weather, ball, opponent. It's there, but you do it once, you do it twice, three times. Yes, that's not good for the confidence of nobody. Having that in training, the job is not to talk too much about it, just to give him a chance to get confidence back with the things you do in training. That doesn't last forever. So, the one thing you have to protect players from is public. Try to, because they are ruthless in moments. They don't care until something happens. So, there were supporters sometimes. I think we were really lucky with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team, that they were not angry, disappointed, yes, but not angry in a way that I don't want to see them anymore. So, that helped. But, of course, we have to protect them sometimes. We have to protect them sometimes from themselves as well. So, that's the job.
Interviewee: We had a situation that players texted us or posted something at night and deleted it, but I still got aware of it. So, not that I read it, but people tell me, oh, last night, didn't that happen? When? Three o'clock. Three o'clock? Okay. What did you say? This and that. Oh. What I do in these situations, even delete it, I go in the dressing room and they all lie on the house. Last night, this and that's happened. Uh, got deleted. I know what's there, but maybe you want to tell everybody?
Interviewee: Yeah. Not nice, eh? The thing is, I don't go for them and tell them, how can you write that or whatever. So, I said, come on. Somebody told me, so I know it. Ah. Not important, really, but come on, tell the whole team what you wanted to say. And then it's not great. I don't like to bring people in that, but I think that's a deserved punishment for something like that. But actually, the effect is, nobody ever did it again. Because nobody wants to be in that situation in the dressing room, sitting there and be the one who has to explain something he did last night or whatever. I discussed individual problems, if it was okay, in front of the team, if it was important for the team. Yeah. Come on, explain why you did that. Why you went out that long. What happened in the last two hours?
Interviewer: Minds? Interviewee: before i had that to get here we that's these are tears the tears the year and two years before were not for the same reason so you probably know we didn't get promoted for a point and a goal first a goal first a point then a goal and then this happened that was the first day when it
Interviewee: yeah but before winning that i i learned how to lose this is very important i would say i think that's again to learn even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible you have to accept that from time to time you lose and then keep then when you then keep going you have a good chance if you learn from it a defeat is a defeat if you don't learn from it if you learn from it's a very very important information and obviously in football we have a lot of opportunities to get beat and opportunities to learn from it but this was the biggest relief in my life not happiness that i was just pure relief the pressure was mounting i was crazy not only myself nobody not from outside i don't know even over the outside world thought but to make it happen that year that was really special but it took two years of coming close yeah yeah and dealing with the disappointment yeah true
Interviewee: it's not that I knew that always but what made me spoke about very early but what made me the person I am these people of course mom dad my faith as well so and I I knew always that I'm not here to get everything I am here to give everything so that doesn't help in a moment when you when you when you fail for a point but in the general understanding as a person of course it helps so I'm not surprised that I fail I don't I don't think I don't see myself as a constant winner in my in my mind I see myself as a constant tryer so I don't know constant winners but there might be some out there but I just can't imagine a world it would be like that you know all all people running around there all the happy people that win all the time nobody wins all the time nobody does so it's all about dealing with the things you want and not get and then you wanted more and or not anymore or whatever so the moments were not great but I learned it here doing it that day changed the the destiny of the club of meins05 that's how it is my destiny the player's destiny changed everything so we wanted it that hard but we learned before we have to try harder and that's what I always took if you don't get the result you want try again and try harder
Interviewer: Yeah, Mr. Heidel. Christian Heidel. I am I spoke to Christian Heidel. He made his English is very funny, isn't he? Yeah. I've had to, I'm going to translate it for the viewers, but I'm going to actually play what he said to you in in German. Interviewee: Oh, of course. So you can hear it here. We go, global, yes, dear global, we've known each other for exactly 35 years now. First we were both players, then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in Mitz. You changed an entire club, you changed an entire city. Back then, we were promoted to the Bundesliga together, and today Mainz has been in the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back then, that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club, change an entire city, and we never, every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool, and the same thing happens for the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that. And I'm always asked, what makes Jürgen Klopp special? To this day, he has simply remained a genuine person, always authentic, which is incredibly important. Apart from the fact that you are, of course, an outstanding expert. I hope we'll see each other again soon on our little shared island in Mallorca. Um, and have a great day and lots of fun with your podcast. Wow.
Interviewer: Manchester United are now, I guess. Yeah. And you managed to bring them up from being a team that were dysfunctional, hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism around the club. I think as a Man United fan, I was hoping and wondering that if Liverpool would ever come back. I was hoping they would never come back again. But you brought them back. Annoyingly. When you when you arrived at Liverpool that day, you said in that press conference that you're the normal one. I remember that. What, what did you observe when you arrived? What was the culture? What was the feeling? And what was your first thought about what you had to do to to bring that club back to its glory? Interviewee: The feeling I got, I had roughly a week to to think about everything from the op from the first call to the signature.
Interviewee: Oh, in that moment, not. But in the summer, I had a lot of offers like before. I mean, I when I finished at Dortmund, um, but in that moment, it was just Liverpool. But it was kind of destiny because I didn't want to, it was not we were on a family holiday in with the with the two boys. Well, I know I is sitting there, phone goes, my agent. Why is he calling? Boys, look at my face. And I think Liverpool. And the both, yes, the boys. Yeah. And when I looks, what is he? And she didn't see my lips when I mean I spoke. What and realize? Oh god, we start again. Before she knew, we will, we will, um, go to Liverpool. Why did your boys come on? If you're not a Man United fan, you know what, what Liverpool means for two people. Um, and they, they, yeah, they loved it. And we, we fell instantly in love with that club. So did Manchester United ever call? Yeah, I spoke to them. So in the year when Sir Alex retired, they, they spoke to me. Yeah, yeah. Of course, they were interested at one point. So I was that time, I would have been interested. I was a young, I've had a sensational team at Dortmund, my god. So somebody they probably thought, what is he doing there? Um, later on, I heard that my players, handle Adam Lallana, James Milner, so that they flew to to to Real Madrid when we played the semi-final in the championship to watch us. I wanted to see what is Dortmund doing? My god, what a football that is. I mean, you can't get bigger compliments. It's really, it's really good.
Interviewee: No, no, no, they tried. I it was wrong time, wrong moment for me. I was in, I had a contract at Dortmund, I wouldn't have left not really for for for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they wanted in that case, now it was one of a few options, I think. Um, so it was you that turned down Manchester United?
Interviewee: Yeah, that way. So I, yeah, so we need someone else on negotiations. We need, yeah, no, no, no, he's not there anymore. The guy who negotiated that. So, um, there are now other people in charge. It's long ago, long ago.
Interviewer: why didn't you take that job? Manchester United, the great Manchester. It's just typical. We are now not in private, in a private space. So there are some reasons what the people in that conversation told me which I didn't like.
Interviewee: So United was that big, we get all the players we want. We are like, we can this, we get him, we get him, we get him, we get him. And I was sitting there. So it was not my project. It didn't feel like my. It was a wrong time. But on top of that, it was not my project. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want to bring back. I don't know, Pogba. Paul is a sensational player, my god. But these things don't work usually. But these kind of things or Cristiano, my god, we all know that he's the best player or together with Messi, the best player in the world. So but bringing back never helps. In that time, in 2013, it was obviously not about Cristiano, maybe about Paul. I'm not even sure when don't get the numbers together. But it was just the idea is we bring the best players together and then let's go. It wasn't about the football. It was not at all. And I sat there and was like, and uh, I am not sure. That's not for me. So and then the pure, pure football project comes up with with Liverpool. And the sensational talk to to Mike Gordon. Should that's really important as well. Like he was the owner. I know John and Tom of course as well. But Mike was responsible for us. I wanted after the talk, I want to be his friend. He's such a good guy. So that's how it started. And in the end, yeah, it was pretty special.
Interviewer: Yeah, of course. And I wanted to get your take on why you think the last, this is very selfish for me, the last sort of 15 years at Manchester, you know, it haven't worked out. As an objective observer, I wouldn't. I need to. You, you, cut. You're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful. And we are currently underdogs in many regards because of the last 15 years. What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we overlooked in your view? I know you don't want to hear that. Interviewee: You have a hypothesis though. I didn't think a second since I joined Liverpool about what Man United did right or wrong. I just did so it's like I buy into a situation so, um, I went to Liverpool and that moment you became our opponent, not my enemy, but a very important opponent. One who is much more fun to beat. And maybe, and, and, and like other, like with Everton. I know so many Everton fans in Liverpool. We lived there for nine years, so I know so many people, great people. Yeah, so absolutely. But then you go to the game and think, oh my god, that's something different to it. Not I make that up, it's like that. Um, but I really didn't think. But, but always in football is like this. And again, like in life, you have a problem and you only try to find a solution for now, knowing you have two days later another problem. You know it. But such for now, just find a solution for that problem. There's no mid, no long term. So generally, okay, we have to deal with that for another day or two, and then we can sort it. And that means in our extent, we have to deal with that for a year or two. And United, and then we can make a big step. Then this in our case and football case contracts are running out, player goes anyway, we can sell him, we can do this. But because you're in such a rush all the time, just because you want to or have to win the next game, a little bit like that. Being now in the situation probably United in the years when they were not happy, they would buy the time from that time. Jose becoming second, and nobody was really happy there. And you think, oh, remember that, in that time, second was not good enough. And now you are not even close to that. But that's not a Man United story for me. It's just a football story. It's always like that in the foot in the world of football. You win, you're the greatest. You lose, you know nothing about the game. You draw, you're boring. So that's not that you're constant. And it's only about your own idea what you really want to do and where you want to go. And everything in life is about development. We today, you were not the same 10 years ago. I was not the same 10 years ago. So it means the time between then and now counts. So if it counts for me, the next 10 years, do the same. So it's important what I do. It's important what I see in a year, two, three. So I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that. And especially the destiny and the future of a football club. A player can score a goal, can score five goals, will never solve the problems if you have real problems. And I don't know the United problems, but that Liverpool was the same. It's not about that on the day when we when we lost, sold Phil Coutinho, that was not the day when I thought, oh, good that we have the money. I lost the player I wanted to work with for the next to 10 years. If you want it. It was not that that I thought, and we can invest it. Yeah, we invested it smartly, that's true. But it's not that we found a player for the position and sorted that. That's we had to sort differently. But we found two really solid, solid and becoming world-class players with Allison and VVD. That was for the future to go from there. And now that's the difference.
Interviewer: Born with as well. Born with as well. Yeah. But they're doing something which is creating this magic. And it's this wonderful narrative of you don't need to have the most talent or resources to have the best outcome. So what is that gap between, like, and that's there must be something. Interviewee: Now, look, it's it's a situation, a moment in the situation where Crystal Palace and Bournemouth is massively different to the situation for United. If, if Bournemouth wins a game 1-0 and doesn't perform particularly well, you can take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would really find an article in, in, in the newspaper about it. Just win and go. But United is United. United, each step is under the under focus. And they're like, what? Oh, he didn't. They won, but he didn't play great. So they win a game and then somebody doesn't perform well, so pick him out and go for him full throttle. You think, wow, right? So the coach has to pick him up again. No, no, it's all right. Stuff like this. And the next one. And then they're different, completely different situations. The only problem you have now, in the time you try to sort your problems, all the other clubs improve their situations. So Liverpool has incredible squad. Yes, are they 100% happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not. But incredible squad. Arsenal, incredible squad. City, City, I mean, and I want to strike back, there's already three clubs. Chelsea, they're in that time when everybody thought, do they have an overview about their transfer market? Do they know who they own and who they loan and stuff like this? Obviously, somehow it pays off. So they have already five clubs. They are above you. Are you happy with position six? No. Yeah. So and here's the problem. Should you be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe this year. And build on that. So find, um, find a reason. Find a reason to enjoy the situation again. Find a reason to enjoy a 1-0 victory, two-nil victory at home, whoever against whoever, Southampton. Try to enjoy that. Really be happy. Go home and not listening to others who tell you. That's what we had years ago when we decided after a draw against West Brom to say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of the cup and hold his other hand and and said thank you. And then the press conference and Tony Pool is, uh, what, what, what world we are living in? When Liverpool, with the money they spend, celebrate a point against West Brom. Uh, oh, thank you. Um, so, but it's, it's your choice how you grow together again. And I think after all the years now without a lot of good football, they need to find a way to grow together again. I fully believe in Ruben Amroum. Um, I think he's, he's a man that's focused on culture. And I, I like how honest he is as well. And I think with the team that they have around them, with people like Jason Wilcox and Ineos, who I've met, and Colette, and all the others that are there, I think we're, we've never been in a better place. Personally, I feel like that because I just think they're aiming for more long-term things. They're aiming at the, only, the only problem is you have no clue about football. But besides that,
Interviewee: So, yeah, good on you. Good on you. But I have faith. That's great.
Interviewer: Yeah. When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to come and join, you said, well, the reason you chose Liverpool is because they felt like a football project versus Manchester United, who seemed to be a bit more less football oriented. But it's not the same. Year, yeah. Two years. Yeah. Two, two years before. I'm wondering, what is it about their proposal that made you think it was a football project? Interviewee: Oh, the situation. I knew the club. I knew the team. So, if you look at, um, on top of that, I didn't think it that way. But when Sir Alex left, it was, and they became champion in his last year, but it was not that the team was one you build a future on. So that's how it is. When you come in as you, it's it's a bit built to fail, if you want it. But I didn't see it that way. And that time, it was at other reasons. But if I would have thought longer about it, could have been probably, yeah. So David Moyes is a fantastic, fantastic manager. Um, body proofs every year, couldn't do the job. And since then, it's a bit of a problem. So a new team needs time. He was stitched up. He was so well, needs time. So Liverpool, the team, as I said, when I came, um, nobody likes the team. Not even the team likes the team. Um, I like the team. I like the team. I knew the players. I thought when Bobby Firmino moved there, I said, oh, that's a smart, that's a smart transfer. I know Chris, I knew Christian Benteke. I love Divock Origi. I knew John Henderson. I knew Adam Lallana. I know many plenty players. And hurt only, ah, kind of good enough. And I thought, oh, well, let's see. So I like the team. So that's a football team, proper football, super attitude. I mean, just on day one, I could have, um, um, played Hendo and Milly and Adam together midfield. Maybe I did. I don't even know my first lineup. But this is a proper engine room. It's smart players. It's people who really want to want to, um, perform, want to work hard. And all these kind of things that what you need for a start. I knew Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I went into the shiny room. I played there a year before with Dortmund in the summer in the pre-season. And I was massively disappointed about the dressing rooms. I remember, you have these pictures in your mind. You think, oh my god, it's envy. And you walk in and make two steps into the dressing room when you run against the wall and you think, kidding, is that all? Where's the rest? So English dressing rooms, really, really small. In the old stadium there, we think, oh my god, how can you bring it? It was built for 11 players. And now we come here with 30. So people in that room, it doesn't help. So I, I knew about the history. I knew that nobody's happy. I knew that I like the team. Um, that's a good start.
Interviewee: We didn't, we didn't really speak about that in the first conversation. That'
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