KOBE BRYANT'S LAST GREAT INTERVIEW On How To FIND PURPOSE In LIFE | Kobe Bryant & Jay Shetty

To say, okay, it's okay to fail because you're going to be loved no matter what.

I had to look at it from a long term because I wasn't going to give up on the game.

So I had to say, okay, this year, I'm going to get better at that.

Next year, this, and so forth and so on.

And then patiently, I was able to catch it.

The first question I want to ask you because so much of your content right now that you're creating here at Granity is aimed at helping young people, aimed at helping children.

And as a father of four girls, I wanted to ask you, what's the biggest thing you've learned about yourself by being a father?

You know, it's amazing.

Like when you become a parent, things become much more, you know, life becomes, you know, it lines things up for you a little differently, right?

Like before you have kids, me and my wife, we can travel anytime, you know, there's work and, you know, you become very, you have a very clear focus.

When you have children, it becomes about them.

It's not about you guys anymore, right?

And so that shift, it's a big one.

You know, it's one of kind of a selfishness together and then to being absolutely selfless and doing anything you can for your kids.

And so what I'm trying to do is create content to teach them first and foremost.

That's why I started this whole thing is just reading stories to them that I felt like didn't exist.

You know, our kids are athletes and they love reading about princesses and all these fairy tales.

And, you know, they get a little sick and tired about the man saving the princess every time.

And, you know, the same old stuff, magical wands and all that.

My kids are athletes, man.

They want to learn about soccer balls and basketballs and volleyballs and, you know, magic that comes from that.

Yeah.

And I love that you're encouraging young people to think more imaginatively about sports.

Yeah.

And I think that's where you go a step deeper.

You know, for me, observing you and learning about you and hearing you speak in other interviews and everything, what I'm fascinated by is that you've dealt with things in life pretty head-on, right?

You've always gone at it.

What took you a while?

What was something in your life that you were shy about originally or that took you a while to go head-on with, but then finally you got there and you figured it out?

Writing deer basketball.

That was a hard jump, you know, because I had written before.

I started writing probably about 17 years ago until practicing every day.

A lot of things that I wrote were ads.

And so when you write an ad, nobody looks up at who wrote the ad, right?

You can kind of, there's a certain anonymity that comes along with that, right?

But writing deer basketball was different.

You know, it's putting it out there for the world to see.

It's trying to create a short film.

And I didn't know if I could do it, man.

And, you know, it was my daughter who kind of put things in perspective for me, Gianna.

She's now 13.

And she was like, well, you always tell us to go for it.

So.

She put you on the spot.

Yeah, she put me on the spot.

She was like, you going to talk about it?

You going to be about it, basically.

And, you know, that gave me the final push.

I love that.

When you started writing 17 years ago, did you envision that one day you would move into this storytelling space?

Or was it just something you enjoyed at the time?

No, man.

It was just something I enjoyed.

And I enjoyed writing ads.

It was something funny about trying to distill a message down into 30 seconds or a minute, depending on the budget.

You know what I mean?

And trying to say something important,

trying to speak to the, you know, brand attributes, but also speak to something that's greater and that has a stronger message, stronger philosophical message.

And how do you connect those dots?

So putting that puzzle together was something that was really intriguing.

But like, you know, I never thought I'd be writing novels or movies and that sort of stuff.

Never, man.

I love that, man.

I love it how everything evolves naturally.

And actually hearing you say that, it reminds me.

So my vision when I was sharing earlier became very clearly making wisdom go viral.

And I was like,

how do I take these teachings that are like so sacred, they're hidden away in these books.

And how do I make them really relevant and accessible and practical to the whole world?

Because I know that anyone can access them.

They're universal, right?

These teachings can apply to anyone, but sometimes they're just hidden away.

Sure.

And a young person doesn't know how to find them.

So that inspires me hearing that.

That's beautiful too, because especially in today's world, there's so much clutter.

You know, it becomes harder for kids to try to weave through a lot of the crap that's out there to find stuff that's actually beneficial to them.

Yeah.

I think you reminded me, I think E.O. Wilson said,

we're drowning in information, starving for wisdom.

Yeah, for sure.

Especially.

And that's why I think your work is cutting through, because I think what you've managed to do with your new work is that you're finding ways to connect with what people care about, but you're taking it a step deeper.

Yeah.

Right?

You're not just settling for life.

Let's talk about sports.

It's not just about sports.

It's about life, right?

It's about the metaphor that sports has for life.

I mean, you know, sports is the greatest metaphor we have in terms of dealing with life.

Because, you know, even if you listen to music, music will give you guidance, right?

That you can then meditate on and think about how you would apply it.

In sports, you have to apply it in the here and now.

I mean, you're faced with challenges moment to moment.

You're faced with pressures and anxiety and communication or the lack thereof and all this other stuff.

Like, it's in the moment.

So you have to live it.

And when you practice those things, you become better at it.

But I just feel like in this day and age, our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve.

And parents and coaches have become more directive and trying to mandate or give orders or teach kids how to think and teach kids how to behave versus, and tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.

And so that's why I'm creating these stories and creating this content.

Yeah, I love that.

I think it's so true.

When you treat people as kids, then they always be kids.

Right.

Even when they grow up.

Yeah.

And for you, it was really powerful because you've talked about this before where your father said to you, like, whether you score zero or 60.

Yeah.

Like, I love you.

Yeah.

Tell me what that statement meant to you at that time and how did it actually motivate you to continue scoring 60 rather than go, oh, I'm all right at zero.

Well, it did more than that.

Right.

So, like, the basketball stuff speaks for itself in terms of what that comment made, you know, did for me in terms of giving me stability and giving me confidence to say, okay, it's okay to fail because you're going to be loved no matter what.

And that doesn't just mean basketball.

It means anything in life.

It means writing.

That means being an entrepreneur.

That means having a confidence to go for it.

And I've seen too many parents do the exact opposite.

And it terrifies children.

And children become paralyzed by their own fear because they don't have that security blanket of love and comfort.

Yeah, absolutely.

How have you been able to, in your life, see past the cloud of emotion to actually execute on things?

Because I think what we were speaking about earlier, this challenge that young people have today, everyone has today of just so much information, so much cloud of emotion, so many feelings, so much childhood baggage that you're bringing.

Like, how have you always cut through that and executed on that?

You know, what I try to do is just try to be still and understand that things come and go.

Emotions come and go.

The important thing is to accept them all, to embrace them all, and then you can choose to do with them what you want versus being controlled by emotion.

You know, a lot of times I've seen players, even myself, you know, when I was younger, being consumed by a particular fear

and to the point where you're saying, okay, nah, it's not good to feel fear.

I shouldn't be nervous in this situation.

And it does nothing but grow versus stepping back and saying, yeah, I am nervous about this situation.

Yeah, I am fearful about this situation.

Well, what am I afraid of?

And then you kind of unpack it and then it gives you ability to look at it for really what it is, which is nothing more than your imagination running its course, you know?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I love that because what you're saying is that when you're dealing with something, it's almost like, how can I get to the root of it?

Yeah.

Because sometimes what we're dealing with, like you're saying, it's an imagination, an illusion.

It's not really.

It's not really a thing, you know?

Like you think about game-winning shots or game-winning free throws and people go to the free throw line and they're nervous about it.

Well, what are you really nervous about?

If you unpack that, okay, you're nervous that you're going to miss the shot, all right?

So you miss the shot, then what happens?

People are going to be embarrassed.

You're going to be embarrassed because thousands of people, millions of people see you missed the shot, all right?

And then what?

People are going to talk bad about you.

Okay, right?

And so you're looking at it and go, are those things even important?

You know what I mean?

If that is my fear, like what is, you're worried about letting your teammates down?

Okay, have you let them down before?

Oh, I'm sure.

And practice and things of that nature, right?

They're still there, you know?

And so when you're able to unpack it, you kind of look at it for what it is, which is really nothing.

Yeah, I love that.

Breaking it down.

I think that's so important.

I think everyone who's listening and watching right now, next time you're facing a fear, next time you're going against something, do that.

Like literally unpack it.

Don't just settle for your first answer because the first answer is really the right one.

Don't hide from it.

You know, you got to be able to look at it and, you know, and deal with it head on.

Yeah, I love that, man.

And you talk about that because you talk about, you know, when you talk about missing five throws and you talk about getting over yourself, right?

Like getting over yourself.

How did you get that mentality of just being like, I need to get over this.

Like I need to get over myself.

You know, trial and error.

You know, you grow up and you make game winning shots and it's awesome.

You come back the next day and miss a game winning shot and it's misery.

And then the next day comes and you're back playing again and you understand that life has this cyclical nature where it's, you know, what you do on Monday is fantastic but then Tuesday is a bad day but guess what?

There's Wednesday.

So are we just supposed to live our lives like this the whole time?

You know, versus just staying like this and understanding that it's really just a journey of evolution every day.

It's just constant improvement, constant curiosity, constantly getting better.

The results don't really matter.

It's the figuring out that matters.

Yeah.

And we all get obsessed about the results.

Yeah.

Like we get obsessed about like the output.

Yeah.

Not the input of not figuring it out and not like changing things.

What you said, trial and error, like the experimenting.

Yeah.

We forget to do that.

It's unfortunate, man.

Like I've seen a lot of players, especially now, you know, in youth basketball dealing with that.

You have players that are like bigger and faster and stronger and, you know, their coaches are just coaching them for results.

You know, we're just going to use your size because you're bigger than every other 12-year-old out there to dominate today.

But they're not growing.

Right?

So they're just based on that result, but they're not focused on growing this young child into becoming a veteran athlete.

And through that, teaching them how to become a more well-rounded person.

And we're missing that.

Yeah.

See what you've said there, just, I want to ask you this and I'm not saying it because I, you know, like you know yourself best and you know how you've got there.

So I'm asking it from a place of humility of learning.

When I look at you, I'm like, you know, your superpower isn't just your work ethic.

Your superpower isn't just like figuring things out.

Your superpower is like, you think strategically, like that's a very strategic thought of saying, this person could be this in the future if they were developed as a whole individual rather than just like, let's use them for the short term.

Right.

Where did you develop that from that ability to see beyond, to think deeper, to reflect deeper?

Where did that come from?

Well, I had to do that because, you know, I grew up, growing up in Italy when I first moved over there, it was, you know, I didn't speak Italian.

I didn't have any friends.

You know, I had the game of basketball and through sport and playing soccer, I was able to make friends and build connections.

But it was a lot of time spent alone.

And when I came back to the States, I wasn't the most athletic kid.

You know, I was really scrawny, like really, really skinny and had like major knee issues because I was growing.

So I was the dorky kid with high socks and big old knee pads.

It's fashionable now.

It's fashionable now.

It wasn't then.

It wasn't then.

And so I had to look long term because in the here and now, I couldn't compete with these kids.

I mean, there's kids that were like 12 years old with beards.

Like, I can't,

what am I supposed to do with that?

Like, they're doing windmills and dunking backwards and I'm happy to like tap the backboard, you know?

So I had to look at it from a long term because I wasn't going to give up on the game.

Right.

So I had to say, okay, this year, I'm going to get better at that.

Next year, this, and then so forth and so on.

And then patiently, I was able to catch them.

Yeah.

That's, I love hearing that because I think so many of us kind of, you believe like when you see people like yourself, it's like, it's so easy as an excuse to ourselves to just, oh, you're destined for it, right?

You were made for it.

It's kind of like that kind of, you know, like, oh yeah, you know, but, but when you talk about saying, oh, actually when I started, I didn't have the physicality that meant that I was going to make it.

Like you had to figure it out and I love it.

Figure it out, man.

It's just piece by piece and it's the consistency of the work, which I feel like a lot of parents are missing today because we're not teaching that to our kids.

We tend to say like, kids don't want to do the work, but in reality, it's when we're failing them because we're not leading them the right way and teaching them, you know, how to fish, you know what I mean?

And so like the consistency of work, Monday, get better.

Tuesday, get better.

Wednesday, get better.

Right.

And you do that over a period of time, you know, not like one month or two months.

I mean, it's three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years.

And then you, you know, you can get to where you want to go.

Yeah.

I think it was Bill Gates who was talking about that.

He talks about how like we, we overestimate what we can do in one year and underestimate what we can do in 10 years.

No doubt.

Right.

It's like that, you know, like I think everyone thinks about it, like, what can I do right now?

Like, how can I make it happen?

But like with you, I think people always ask you also like, you know, how do you deal with losing or failure?

What I'm intrigued by is how someone like you deals with winning because you've won again and again.

And like I was saying earlier, you, you know, you want, obviously we know you won in basketball big as an athlete, but you've, you're winning now, even in the work you're doing here as a storyteller, as a producer, right?

It's amazing to see so many incredible awards coming through.

How have you dealt with winning?

Like when you win, what goes through your mind to help you to continue?

Well, it's a little different.

Like in basketball, it was different because I expected to win, you know, like I expected us to win championships.

I expected us to win five.

Quite honestly, I expected us to win eight.

And so when you have that vision in sports, it's a direct competition.

Like I know how hard they're working.

I know how hard we're working.

I know what their strategy is.

I know what ours is, you know?

So it's a little different.

So when we went in the NBA, it was like, yeah, we expected to do that, but now we, we're going to come back and we're going to do it again, you know?

And so it's that constant, like, all right, you're turning, you win one championship.

I'm back in the gym the next day, working, getting ready for the next one.

Now it's different because it's not about the awards.

You know, you just wind up trying to create something that's, that's going to inspire someone that hopefully, you know, through that inspiration, they can inspire somebody else.

And what I've come to learn as my career went on is that's more significant than any championship is how do you connect with somebody that can then connect with another.

And then whether the awards come or not, you know, that's for, you know,

you know, the Academy of the Word body to decide, but, you know, like for us, it's just to try to create things.

Yeah.

Well, I guess now that's what shifted that now the intention isn't even expecting to win.

It's expecting to change lives.

Right.

Right.

Like your content is really about making a difference and an impact on young people's lives.

Sure.

Sure.

Which I, which I think is like the biggest way of winning.

I think so.

I mean, you know, we're looking at 62% of young children are dropping out of sports, 62%.

And they cite the fact that it's not fun anymore.

Well, what does that tell them?

I mean, that's telling us, us as grownups are getting in the way, get out the way, let these kids be imaginative, which, you know, like in our stories, it's important that, yeah, there's a fantasy nature to it.

Right.

But it's rooted in reality.

Right.

When we have a fire breathing winged horses and things of that nature, those are actual drills that are taking place.

We're not, we don't have fire drink, you know, fire breathing winged horses actually performing that, but we do have ball machines that are spitting balls at tennis players.

Right.

And so all of our, all of our stories are all anchored in an element of truth.

So that children feel like when they are doing these drills with these ball machines, they can envision maybe it's a fire breathing winged horse.

Yeah.

To keep them excited.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They can envision Gus throwing fireballs at them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, uh, and even the plays, like when the, you know, in the wizard art series, when the basket is opening up and shrinking, these are things that we experience as athletes.

Like some days I feel like I can't make a shot, man.

And the basket feels like the size of a keyhole, you know, and other days it looks like a swimming pool.

Yeah.

You know, that's magic.

And so we, we, we root our magic in reality so that when kids experience these things, particularly the failure side of it, they can connect it to one of our stories and say, okay, I've seen this before.

I know how to deal with this.

Yeah.

That's beautiful, man.

I love that.

That analogy of like feeling the basket bigger or smaller and I'd be able to vision that I can vision it right now.

And like, yeah, you're so right.

Like some days it looks huge.

And I love that.

That's such a great way of thinking about it.

And I guess so much of this is from your real life vision.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

This is like some days.

I've experienced it.

Yeah.

But I love that because it's also giving them the permission to say like, be imaginative about this.

Right.

Yes.

And, and that obviously gives so much, I think when we imagine it changes the reality of, Oh, I'm just sitting out here taking shots.

Yes.

Right.

Which can get boring and tiring.

It becomes mechanical.

Mechanical.

That's the right word.

It becomes mechanical.

And you're like, our job is to try to inspire the creativity inside of our children so that they can think through how to problem solve situations.

So like, you know, when I coach my daughter's team, it's not about giving them answers.

It's about asking them questions and getting them to process things.

Right.

When the game is being played, I'm not sitting there giving them answers or barking out things on a sideline.

I sit down and I'm quiet.

My assistant coach sits there and she's quiet.

And the kids figure things out for themselves or they don't.

And then they come back and there's always questions.

And then you kind of ask them more questions and you help them figure it out.

But then you see their level of excitement to practice every day increase because it's something, it's a process that they are owning.

Right.

They're not coming to get orders barked at them every day.

They're coming for, for, for, for kind of their personal quest to get better.

Yeah.

And how does your, how do your daughters feel about you coaching?

I guess that style makes them feel comfortable, but how have you been able to manage that with the pressure of you being there?

No, it's no pressure because, you know, it's, it's their process to own.

Like I, I have knowledge information that I've, that I've gained, you know, through playing.

So like the little details of things I can teach at a high level.

But ultimately it's, it's, it's them.

Yeah.

You seem, you seem very still and detached about it.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's, you know, the kids love playing basketball.

So that's the anchor of it all.

They come and they play and they learn and they have fun and, you know, and they compete and, you know, they challenge themselves and one another and,

you know, they just get better every day.

Yeah.

How, how have you seen that with, obviously with legacy and the queen, you, you chose tennis.

Yeah.

Like what was the, what was the choice of sports about?

I'm intrigued by that.

Why tennis?

Yeah.

So like the first novel we did was, was the wizard and art series.

It was important that for that to be basketball, because I wanted the first story to be one of empathy and compassion.

And in team sports, if you don't have that, you can't win.

Right.

And so it was important to tell the tale of a basketball team,

uh,

dealing with their own personal fears and have those fears and insecurities lead to empathy and compassion for others.

Right.

And with the second story, I wanted to look more internal individually and, and look at how do you deal with the inner challenges, the kind of the self negotiation that takes place inside of our own heads.

And there was no sport better than that than tennis.

There's golf.

Uh, but tennis, you have more movement, which to me symbolizes life in general, because life is, there's a lot going on, right?

There's the elements in tennis that you have to deal with as you deal with in golf, maybe not to the same extent, but they're still there.

And then there's the confrontation with the person across the net from you.

Yes.

Right.

As well as the strengths and weaknesses in your own movements and how you feel in your own body.

And because of that, it was important for this story to be a tennis story.

Hmm.

I love that.

That, that makes complete sense.

And give me an example of that self negotiation.

I love that word.

And I get that.

Can you expand on that a bit?

Yeah.

Like, you know, you're, you're, you're out running on a track, working out and you start talking to yourself saying, man, my, my knee is really sore right now.

Maybe I'm, maybe I'm doing too much.

Sounds like me.

I mean, I need to back off, you know, man, my lungs are burning and my, maybe I can just slow down here.

I'll do like an extra two sets tomorrow.

You know, it'll be okay.

Yeah.

Right.

That sort of stuff.

Yes.

Like that stuff's dangerous.

Yes.

And that's, you just got to say, you know what?

I'm not negotiating with myself.

Yeah.

The deal was already made.

The deal was made when I set out at the beginning of the summer and said, this is the training plan I'm doing.

I signed that contract with myself.

I'm doing it.

You know, throughout the, that process, you'll start talking to yourself like, man, I got to, I think I need to, maybe if we, nope,

no,

this is non-negotiable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

And for you, empathy and compassion were things that you'd been through.

Like that was, that was personally inspired work.

Yeah.

When did it come to your awareness that empathy was something missing for you and that you wanted to develop it?

I had a teammate that, that spoke to me and say, Hey Cole, you know, I just want to feel like as a teammate, you need me.

I was like,

well, duh.

I can't, I can't, you know, like that was my immediate reaction.

Like, dude, yeah, of course.

But I had to kind of think about really what he was saying and where that was coming from for him.

And his story and his journey and what that meant to him.

And that opened my eyes to there's a bigger game being played.

It's not just basketball, but it's the emotions of each individual and the backstory that they're carrying with them, the baggage that they're carrying with them.

And if I really want to be a champion and be a great teammate, I have to understand what those mean to help them become better.

And in turn, help me.

Yeah.

And do you, do you think this content is going to help all the content you're creating here at Granity?

Is that for you to help build better bonds between parents and kids?

Like, are you hoping that the podcast, for example, like kids are going to listen to it on the way to school or on the way back?

Or like, how are you imagining people consuming the work?

Yeah.

I mean, I imagine it in different ways, you know, but like ultimately people always figure out a way to do it.

That's comfortable for them.

But like, you know, which is why, um, and everything that we do, we try to create the highest quality of product, right?

Like, you know, people will sit down and tell me, they'll say, okay, well, audio books, very small percentage of people listen to audio books.

We don't really have to invest too much in doing audio books.

And what, excuse me?

No, because that one person just listens to audio books.

That one family enjoys audio books.

They have to get the best experience that I could possibly give them.

So that means using a London orchestra.

That means doing full symphonies.

That means having Felicia Rashad, read the stories.

Like it means everything, the books themselves.

I got this all the time.

There's no money in making books, man.

Nobody makes money in books.

And I'm sorry, you want to make a book with using what material you want?

You know what I'm like?

Yeah.

I'm like, uh, yeah, because children matter.

So like, I don't know how they're going to, I imagine how they're going to be consuming content.

Um, but ultimately it's my responsibility and our responsibility to studio to make every single thing that we put out the highest quality possible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I can imagine, I can imagine parents listening to it on the way to school.

I can imagine listening on the way back or on the way to practice or things like that.

Like, I think it's cool.

I think it's,

well, the punies for sure.

Like the punies, I was like, you know,

when I first made the punies, we're going to release it in the summer.

I think we released it in August.

Um, um, and, uh, I think, I think it was August around the same time, but my mind, I was saying, okay, parents are going to listen to this every Saturday morning.

Cause I know I'm in the car driving my kids to soccer games and like, you know, volleyball games and stuff.

So parents can listen to this with their kids in the car as they're driving to sporting events.

Like that was kind of what I had in my mind.

And then when it came out, it's like, you know, teachers were using it more so than anybody in classrooms and doing like classroom reports on the punies and, and all sorts of stuff.

So, you know, never know.

It's, it seems like you study life a lot, right?

Like when you're talking about all of this imagination, which stems from your own work, like, for example, like when you're dealing with empathy and compassion, it's reflected in the content.

When you're going through these visualizations of what could this look like?

It goes in the content.

You study life a lot.

What currently are you studying and what kind of gets your imagination really growing right now?

Like what keeps that moving for you?

You know, there's a certain element of truth and everything, you know, and you know, the creativity generally comes from personal experiences first.

And then you kind of look on a broad, kind of on a broader scope of,

okay,

how do you take something extremely personal and then channel it?

in a way for masses to understand and get their arms around sort of thing.

But it always starts in the element of truth.

And then you start unpacking that by sitting in thought and figuring out like character and, you know, who is this person and, you know, who's this family.

And then that's when I started getting in trouble, you know, because it's like the questions don't end, you know?

So I have like books and books and books and books and books and books and books and books of backstory because it's not good enough just to say the characters this way.

Why are they that way?

Yeah.

Or the parents, well, where do the parents come from?

You know, where's the dad come from?

Why are they raising a kid this way?

And then, you know, what does it have to do with the economy that's around them?

And then, and just one thing leads to the next.

And then you're just writing all kinds of stuff.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Because I think so many of us get, you know, in our lives, we get stuck with imagination because you kind of get into that autopilot mode.

Yeah.

Doing the same thing every day, same routine, same drive to work.

Yeah.

And it's like, I feel that what you're sharing is that's easy for anyone to do.

It's not like, Oh, because you're Kobe Bryant, you don't feel that everyone gets into that.

Sure.

You're able to find these creative outlets.

Yeah.

Well, you know, like creativity is in everything, you know, like even in consistent, like what I found is creativity.

A lot of time comes from structure.

I agree.

I'm so glad you said that.

you have those parameters and the structure, then within that you can be creative.

But like, if you don't have the structure, you're just aimlessly doing stuff.

You know,

where are you going?

You know?

So like having a clear structure of understanding, okay, this morning I'm going to, like when I was writing a wizard art series and outlining legacy, I come in in the morning, 7 a.m.

And I'm there.

I'm writing backstory from seven to 12.

Then I go pick up my kids.

And then I come right back and I'm writing again.

So like within that structure, you know, my mind, when I go to sleep is already like planning of what the next day is going to be, because I know, you know, what it is I have to do.

It's that consistency and structure.

Yeah.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I'm writing my first book right now.

Oh, wow.

And a lot of people have been asking me like, and I'm like, I have a very scheduled focus on writing and they'll be like, well, how do you find inspiration at that time?

What if you're not inspired at that time?

And I'm like, no, the structure helps spontaneity.

Yeah.

Right.

It's that consistency that breeds creativity.

Well,

that's the thing too.

It's like, you know, people think like it's, you're just kind of just kind of, you know, mulling along and all of a sudden, aha, you know, like the show that we have on ESPN now called detail, a basketball, you know, sports breakdown show.

That came to me when I was walking around with my wife shopping.

Yeah.

And I look at a piece of fabric and I'm like, wow, this is really the detail.

And this thing is, Oh my detail.

It's the name of the show.

And then everything came from there.

But I had been thinking about a show like that for like a year,

you know,

and I couldn't, I couldn't shake it loose.

I'm like,

I gotta,

I gotta find a sports show that I'm going to do, but it needs to, can't just be basketball focused has to be broader.

And I want to hear from the best minds in the world.

I want to hear from Peyton Manning.

I want to hear from, what is it?

What is it?

For like a year.

And then all of a sudden, boom, you know?

And so people think it just comes out of nowhere.

You gotta like obsess over it for a while.

And then it kind of pops loose.

Absolutely.

You had to plant the seed well before.

Yeah.

To see the fruit.

Yeah.

And you gotta water it all the time, man.

Like you gotta sit down and watch, and watch other shows that are out there.

And like, you know, and then ultimately you just find, you know, like when, when the answer comes to you, it's like, my God, I could have thought of that on the first day.

I remember John Williams told me that.

He said, he said, he'll sit for like two months to try to figure out what the melody is.

Yeah.

And he'll just be playing.

So he'll be at his piano all day.

He'll say, the only day he'll take off is Sunday.

Cause his wife forces him to take Sundays off.

And he'll just be sitting there writing, writing, writing.

And then it just comes.

Yeah.

And he's like, I seriously could have thought of that on the first day.

Like why?

It's just so simple.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's what people don't realize as well.

Like when you go out, then you're shopping with your wife and you see the detail and you're like, okay, that's the show.

And then you go back into consistency to create it.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, it wasn't just like, oh, now I thought of it.

I'm just going to throw that idea.

It was like, now I'm going back to the drawing board.

I have the name now.

Build around it.

I try to, what I try to do is shoot the idea down and figure out everything that's wrong with the idea.

Ooh.

Okay.

Right.

This show won't work because like detail, for example, it was like this show won't work because it's not for fans.

It's for the 1% athlete.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, will it be successful?

People connect to it.

Like, you know, you just start unpacking every little thing.

How will we shoot it?

Can I even get Peyton Manning to do it?

Could I get, you know, and you start shooting them down.

Same thing with the novels, like characters and plots and stories.

Does this make any sense?

No.

Here's why.

And I felt like that really helps me.

Yeah.

I like that approach a lot, actually, because I think sometimes, especially right now in the world, we go to the wishful thinking side.

Yeah.

Like you have the positive vision and you're like, oh, this is how it's going to turn out.

Right.

And then you ignore the bad stuff.

Yeah.

Or you ignore the kind of like the potholes or the loopholes because you're just like, oh no, I don't want to focus on the negativity.

Yeah.

But actually what you're saying is, if you're aware of it, of those known unknowns, then you can actually break them down yourself.

Well, yeah,

it's just like the same thing for any great movie.

You know, you have to have the antagonist.

Yes.

You know, a strong villainous character will really drive the narrative along.

If you don't have that, you have nothing from which your hero has to bounce off of.

You know, that villain could be, you know, Maleficent.

It could be something inside of you.

It could be whatever, but you have to have that clear antagonist that's driving the narrative forward.

And so, in this sense, it's the same thing.

You pick apart the negative, and from that, you can then move, move forward.

Absolutely.

What I'm loving here right now is that all I'm hearing is like Kobe, the storyteller.

Like I'm loving it.

Like what I feel is like, what I'm hearing about is your obsession and obsessiveness with stories.

And it's not just like, you know, I'm sharing this.

It's like, you've really studied stories.

Like you've really broken them down and understood it.

Where, tell me about where that obsession comes from in general, like how you find obsessiveness.

And how you've applied that to story.

Yeah.

Obsessiveness has come from something that you love.

Like you really love it.

You'll go through fire for it.

You know, you'll go through the ups and downs with it.

And you'll just keep at it because you love it so much, you know, and,

and story for me started a long time ago.

I mean, I had a great English teacher at Little Merion high school named Jane Mastriano.

And she explained to me the art of storytelling my sophomore year.

And that's why I started falling in love with it and understanding story structure.

You know, how to develop compelling characters and how this thing, how stories are the driving force, whether they're inspirational or informational that really changed society.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

We're defined by the stories we tell ourselves, whether personally or, or outside.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And, and it seems like you just mentioned that it just shows the role of teachers.

And now when you find that teachers are using the work you're creating to teach, that must be amazing.

Comes full circle.

Yeah.

You know, and you know, it's a, it's a, it's a pretty cool feeling, man.

Like I, like growing up when I was in high school, man, I didn't read much at all.

Yeah.

You know, cause basketball was my thing.

Now, if you give me a basketball book or like a sports book or like a sports psych book, Oh, I'm devouring that.

You know what I mean?

Cause it was a clear focus for me, which kind of gets me into this market a little bit too.

Cause like for our active children that love being outdoors and playing all the time, they're not reading.

No,

but they're missing out on so much by not reading, but they will read if there's something that they feel like speaks to them.

So true.

You know?

And so now I think we get more readers in the world because of it.

Hopefully.

That's so true.

No, I think so.

I agree with you.

Like for me, and this is why everyone's different.

And I think there's such a need for what you're doing because when I was growing up, I never enjoyed fiction.

And so I thought I didn't like reading because all the books that the school suggested were fiction books.

And then when I was 14, my dad handed me an autobiography and a biography.

I devoured it.

And then I started reading because I was like, I want to hear about real people who break and who develop and who learn and grow and like have been through failure.

And like, I want to hear about rags to riches and I want to hear about, like, I want to hear about real people who went through real pain.

That's right.

But I grew up believing that I didn't like reading.

Right.

And I think that's, you're so right.

I think there's a lot of kids out there who think they don't like reading or they think reading is boring.

It's a problem because like what I found in the industry, which is why we self publish, because a lot of publishers want to publish the same type of story, you know, the same type of plots,

same looking characters,

not a lot of diverse characters out there at all.

And so we said, you know what, we're going to have to do this on our own.

This way we don't have anybody in our way telling us what the market wants to hear.

I don't care about that.

We write stories that come from the heart and our characters are going to look like my daughters because my daughters don't have characters out there that look like them.

It's a great point.

So they're going to look like my kids and, and we're going to go from there.

Yeah.

I think, I think what you've just raised there about diversity and representation is huge.

It's huge, man.

Huge.

Cause I don't see it, man.

And like, you know, so books is just the first thing.

Publishing is the first thing.

Now, if we look at animation, animation is even worse.

It's even worse, you know, in terms of developing characters, diverse characters, but even beyond that, the animators themselves, there's no diversity in that industry.

Right.

None.

And I'm talking not just racial diversity, but gender diversity as well.

And so there's a, there are a lot of things that we need to take on that we are taking on and hope to make the world and the industry a better place because of it.

Yeah.

No, I fully agree with that.

I'm a British Indian, right.

Born and raised in London, Indian, never seen any character that looked like me anywhere.

Right.

Cause they think, you know, the mass market, they're not going to, it's not going to appeal to the mass market.

So we're not going to do that.

Yeah, exactly.

Wait, what?

What?

Yeah.

And, and, and everything's spreading so fast now and everything's global now.

Yeah.

Right.

Like nearly all content is, is global now and most global markets are growing everywhere.

So the need for people, especially young people being able to see themselves in characters and, and even, and it's, it's not, and I think it's a deeper point that you're making is you want to be able to see your story in someone.

Right.

Right.

Even just beyond like color and background.

It's like your story, your experience of life.

When we made Deer Basketball, we got a lot of pushback on people.

Like,

I took it to some very prominent studios at first and they all said, yeah, no.

Because you said basketball is too sports specific.

Nobody's going to connect with this sort of thing.

Cause you know, there's a lot of people out there who don't watch basketball and I'm like, well, that's not the point.

Yeah.

That's not, yeah.

It's not the point.

And so it was really a case study, even with our novels.

Everybody was like sports novels.

Nobody's going to read that.

It's too, too much of a niche market, niche market.

I'm like sports is bigger than that, man.

And so we made Deer Basketball to really prove a point that you don't have to watch basketball at all to connect to the journey of a dream.

Yes.

You know?

And once we saw that connection was kind of, kind of validated our point of view.

I think that's a massive point of view.

And for anyone who's listening or watching right now, who thinks because Kobe Bryant wants to do something, it just happens.

It just shows you have to do it yourself sometimes because not everyone's going to believe in you.

Certainly not.

Certainly not.

And what you'll see is, you know, once you start doing it and now people want to come in, jump in, but I'm like, you know, you kind of forced us to go about this ourselves.

So I think we're just going to build it from the ground up ourselves.

But thank you.

Exactly.

They saved you.

Yeah.

Right.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Because if you had signed on, you know, we just get kind of going with the flow.

Totally.

Yeah.

You can be grateful to that.

Yeah.

Appreciate it.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

No, I agree.

It was the same with this podcast.

Funny enough, when we launched, a lot of people were, a lot of people were considering whether it was, you know, going to like, you know, you do social videos, like, is it going to work on a podcast?

And there were a lot of people that were not sure.

And then like, we launched one of the biggest podcasts in the world in, in, in the health category, which is, which is my world.

And it was just like, everyone's just like, Oh, interesting.

But I'm like, thank you.

Yeah.

Like, thank you so much for saying no.

And you didn't think it was going to work because now I figured out myself.

Yes.

And what you said, it actually builds confidence and validation.

Yeah.

Oprah told me this when I first decided to build the studio.

And I was asking how Harpo came to be.

And she said, well, when she was doing her, her, her deal for the Oprah Winfrey show, she was re-upping her deal.

And, uh, actually the first contract she made, she, uh, and she said, well, don't pay me up front.

Just, I want to own a percentage of the show.

And so they gave it to her.

And now at the time, there weren't any black women hosting a daytime talk show.

Right.

So it was really new.

And, uh, and she said, you know, Kobe, if they believe that the show was going to be successful, they wouldn't have given me, giving me that.

They wouldn't, they wouldn't have in their mind.

They're thinking, Oh, we got to steal.

We don't have to pay her.

We can take this money and move it over here.

This is great.

You know, it's going to be a flop.

We'll resucceed.

I don't know.

At least we get diversity on TV.

It's fine.

And all of a sudden it's, Oh, Oh,

Oh,

Oh,

we're in trouble.

We shouldn't have given it away.

Opened up Pandora's box.

So now you come back for the next deal.

And it's like, you got to have to give me some more ownership.

You're like,

dang it here.

And then ultimately she, you know, came to owning a hundred percent of her show.

Yeah.

Which is amazing.

Wow.

That's a great story.

Yeah.

That's fascinating.

I think because sometimes when you think that you're like, Oh, they like me.

That's what they're giving it.

No,

please.

Here's an idea.

It's terrible.

I just need you to buy in just a little bit.

Yeah.

I love that.

That is awesome.

How are you encouraging?

Well, you've shared so many stories of like your teacher who taught you about storytelling and writing early on.

You just shared Oprah's example.

Like you've had so many incredible mentors in your life.

We all know about that.

How are you encouraging young people to find the right mentors and how can they find the right mentors, even through your work?

I guess your work is somewhat mentorship.

It try.

We try to be, you know, and I think the important thing is research.

You know, in the hall here in the office, I have a hall that I call muse hall.

We have all the portraits of some of our muses here from JK Rowling to, you know, Steve jobs and so forth and so on.

And I think it's important to research them.

And it's like putting, you know, fuel in the fire every day, you know, there's constant inspiration.

When you read about them, what they were able to accomplish, how they went about accomplishing it is just constantly, you know, feeding that flame and, uh, and learning.

And the best way to do that is to learn from the people who have done it.

Yes.

Yeah.

That just made me so happy.

I have a gallery wall in my home.

If we were recording this at my place in Hollywood, like I have a gallery wall, Steve jobs is right there.

Yeah.

Right.

And, and, and Einstein's there and Martin Luther King's there.

And there's a few other people.

And it's, for me, it's the same thing.

It's like, sometimes I'm sitting there and I'll be like, well, what would that person do?

Like, how would they have dealt with this challenge?

And you're so right.

I think you can be mentored by people who aren't alive.

100%.

Cause their stories still live, which brings us to the importance of storytelling.

Yeah.

Their stories still live.

These muses are here.

It's important to learn from them.

And, and if anything, it helps you remember that they are human, just like us.

Yeah.

These great things that get accomplished can be accomplished by others and beyond, you know, building Walt Disney company is not something that, you know, people look at and scoff at and go, Oh, it can't be done.

Well, why not?

Why not?

Yeah.

And the more action you take, the more you think is possible.

Yeah.

Because you realize there are people just like us.

They make mistakes just like us and they kept going.

And we can do the same.

Absolutely, man.

Well, I could talk to you for hours, but you're a busy man and you've got loads of things to do.

So we end every interview with what we call the final five quick fire, rapid fire round, which means you have to answer in one word or one sentence maximum.

Got it.

So this is easy for you.

So the first question is what brings you the most joy right now?

Family.

Beautiful.

Second, what do you want your girls to think when they hear your name?

Daddy.

Nice.

Number three, your favorite animated film?

Pinocchio.

Oh, nice.

Oh, I was not expecting that.

It's the greatest.

Yeah.

They, they made, I mean, they were in a zone when they made that film.

Absolutely.

Question number four, the book that's had the biggest impact on you?

The Alchemist.

Oh, nice.

Okay, great.

Question number five, your one message to all storytellers would be?

Create from truth.

That's beautiful, man.

Kobe, thank you so much.

Got it, This has been an honor, man.

Thank you.

It's such a beautiful conversation.

Thank you for sharing so many gems, so many wisdom pieces.

And anyone who's out there right now, I've got the copy of the book right here, Legacy and the Queen.

You can go grab it.

And you can also listen to the podcast, The Punies as well right now.

So you can go and download that.

We'll put the links to both of them in the comment section and in this podcast.

You can go directly there.

Kobe, thank you so much for allowing us into your space.

This was really special.

Thank you.

I remember this.

Thank you, man.

Thank you.

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