Extended interview: Michael Jordan

Let me just start with this.

Number one, I can't believe, Michael, that we're here, and that we're here talking to you about NASCAR.

NASCAR.

So take us back why this sport means so much to you.

Is it family memories?

What is it?

I think it's more family memories.

My father, actually, you know, he was a diehard mechanic.

He used to work on all the neighborhood cars.

You know, he would fix our cars.

We would never send our car to the service.

He would figure out a way to fix it.

So I think it gravitated into his love for cars.

And he likes driving fast.

My mom likes driving fast.

So we kind of-

Do you like driving fast, Michael?

No, I never drive fast.

I don't believe you, but go ahead, go ahead.

But, you know, it kind of led us down the alley of getting involved in car racing.

One of his best friends was Hoss Ellingson, who was from Wilmington, and he raced locally.

He raced, I think he was in NASCAR at one particular time.

And somehow my father just kind of got gravitated towards the sport.

And he just drug us along.

So did you go to NASCAR races as a kid?

Yes. We drove-

Tell me about that.

We drove to Darlington, Charlotte, Rockingham, all the local places.

We would leave early in the morning on Sunday morning.

And then we'd spend the day and come back, you know, later after the race.

And my brother and I started looking forward to going to those races, you know.

And my mom would go.

The whole family would go.

And we'd pack it up and just go.

We would always go where we can come and come right back.

And I just, it got into my blood, you know, just seeing what, you know, how competitive NASCAR was.

I was a big Richard Petty fan.

My father was a big Richard Petty fan.

Mm-hmm.

The sport as a whole from the, a lot of people look at NASCAR and you see them just making left turns the whole time.

You know, it's a strategy.

It's a lot of, I think it's a lot.

They're athletes.

They're great athletes.

They have the quick, you know, reactions.

They have to think real quick, going at 190 miles an hour.

You know, their strategy to, to, you know, drafting and things like that, that I think people are going to learn as you, if you get involved in the sport.

And to me, that was intriguing enough for me to kind of dive in and understand it from, from an athlete standpoint, you know, which I actually love.

But the people that know you say, but you should see Michael when he's on the track.

You should see Michael when he's in the pit.

He's, I think the word was giddy, that he's like a little kid.

Do you feel like that about this sport?

I'm excited.

I'm excited that, you know, I'm connected to this sport.

You know, I feel like when I watch the sport, I watch it, you know, with the lens of my father, with my family.

And that matters to me.

I mean, that brings back a lot of things that we used to do, you know, when we were a kid.

And the joy of seeing competition, right?

I'm a very competitive person.

Still?

100%.

Still?

100%.

Why?

Because I thought you'd step back.

You wanted a quieter life.

I think I'm cursed.

I'm cursed with this competitive gene that anything that I do is from a competitive lens, you know?

And in some ways that keeps me young, that keeps me aggressively thinking positively.

It helps me either understand everything that I'm involved, that I'm connected with.

It has to be some competitive, you know, things to that, you know?

If it's getting dressed, I got to get dressed before my wife gets dressed, or I got to get dressed in mature, you know, those types of things.

I'm cursed.

That's just the way I am.

And I try to use it in the best positive way that I can.

So Yvette's getting dressed, and you're like, I got to get dressed before she does?

No, I got to get in the shower and get in the bathroom before she comes in so she doesn't slow down my time that I can get to the golf course in time.

I got to drop the kids off.

I got all the other things I got.

I'm looking, I'm like, are you okay?

Are you okay?

Where do you think that comes from?

I think that's funny.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I think that my appetite to prove as a kid created this competitive thing within me that has transcended and taken over everything that I do.

And I think it's a good trait to have because some people don't have that trait.

And some people get to the, you know, get right at the cusp of what success really means, and they can never get over that hump.

And I think it helps you evaluate every stage of success.

I mean, believe me, I've had my failures in terms of the stages.

But once I get over it, it's infectious.

It's that feeling of, you know, that you've accomplished something.

I've gotten to that hill.

It's a long road getting up that hill.

And I think, you know, getting involved in NASCAR from the grassroots when Denny brought this to me.

Yes, I want to talk to him about that.

Yes.

It was starting from scratch.

And, you know, my mentality was, I want to win.

I want to win.

I want to win fast.

I want to do it really fast.

And he was the type of person to say, hey, slow down.

There's stages to this.

I say, I get that, you know, but, you know, I'm going to do everything in my power to try to speed up the process.

And I think that every time you see me giddy down in the pits, it's because of we're doing it.

We absolutely are doing it.

We are starting to make a difference in a sport that no one thought we could make a difference in.

Yeah, but it gives you a different kind of gear, doesn't it?

It does.

And it's infectious that you kind of pass it on to others, you know.

And they start getting it.

They start believing in you.

They start feeling the energy that's been generated either by my involvement or our passion between me and Denny.

And you can look themselves, they look themselves in the mirror and they can see, oh, we can do this.

We could be a champion.

We can win every weekend.

We can compete with the top guys in this sport.

And I think that's what you're starting to see.

And when it doesn't go, the race doesn't go the way you want, how do you handle that?

Oh, I take it as a lesson.

We learn, you know.

Any successful person has had to deal with failure at some point in time, you know.

So we don't let it get us down.

We figure out, okay, we've got to get ready to the next.

Let's learn.

Let's get back to the next one.

Let's make a big difference for the next one.

So, I mean, that is a part of my DNA.

I do not like losing, but I'm not afraid to lose.

I learn from losing.

People say you certainly changed the game of basketball.

Now they say with the lawsuit, you've changed the sport of NASCAR.

Was that your intention?

Yes.

Yeah.

One hundred percent.

Yeah.

Tell me about that.

Well, when I got into the sport, obviously, as I learned, it was a lot of things that I wasn't really happy about.

Mm-hmm.

And I felt like looking at it from a sport, the sport was not set up for success long term for the individuals that's involved in the sport.

Now, up top, yeah, you know, they can make a good living.

Yeah, they were doing all right, yes.

They were making a good living.

And for the people that were putting on the show, that was, and I was a show, I was one of those persons that put on the show and always wanted to share in the gratitude of the success of the NBA or anything that I did.

Mm-hmm.

When you look at NASCAR, I felt like it was lopsided.

And the people that were putting on the show was not getting the type of recognition.

Compensated fairly.

Compensated fairly.

And I didn't have a say-so initially because I had to get in an understanding and know.

And once I did, you know, we got to an opportunity where, okay, we need some changes, you know.

And even if I get kicked out of the sport, even if I lose the lawsuit, I'm going to wake up some people to understand what they are actually doing is wrong, you know.

And I've been a fan.

It's not like I just woke up and said, you know what?

I'm going to go and I'm going to attack NASCAR.

No.

I've been involved in NASCAR.

I've been supportive of NASCAR for a long period of time.

Yeah.

But I was focused on what I was doing, which is basketball.

Now, when I got into NASCAR, I can see how things were operating.

It was lopsided.

It was wrong.

Yeah, but Michael Jordan took the stand.

When I read that Michael Jordan is going to take the stand, that got everybody's attention.

Tell me you're thinking about, I'm going to get on the stand and I am going to testify.

And were you nervous?

Oh, yeah, I was definitely nervous.

Were you nervous?

Don't get me wrong.

I mean, I was nervous.

Any courtroom makes me nervous because that's not where I want to be, really.

Yes, yes.

100%.

But no, I knew that, you know, once I took the stand, actually, when we delayed the lawsuit and it became, you know, people became aware that we were suing NASCAR, I was all in.

I was aggressively going to win.

You know, that was my, I became a competitor all over again is that, first of all, I wouldn't sue you if I didn't think we had a good case, you know, and we had a good case.

Yes.

Now, I like to have convinced my partners to stick with me, you know, and fight this fight.

But a lot of them had different reasons why they couldn't.

But that didn't deteriorate why I felt like this fight was needed, you know.

And I was going to fight even harder.

And if I got kicked out, at least I made people aware that change needs to happen in this sport, you know, and I think it's lopsided.

And, you know, so I went in with the idea that, I don't care, even if I lost, I won.

Yeah.

I look at the cars.

Have you ever even been in a car?

It seems like your body wouldn't fit in a car.

I can't. I can't fit.

So you've never been in a car and never driven?

No.

Do you want to?

I wish I could.

If you could, would you?

I probably, yeah, I would want to.

But, you know, knowing my competitors' uses, you know, I would probably try to go as fast as Denny Hamlin and some of these other guys, knowing I don't have the talent to do so, I'd probably run straight into that wall.

But that doesn't change my desire.

You know, I love the sport.

Yeah, I know.

I think it's so cool that you love the sport because I think, because you love it, I think it's going to be, it will influence other people to love it.

Is there a part of you, any part of you, you said when you left you wanted to retire, you wanted a quieter life.

You had had enough, it seems, of the spotlight.

True?

Right.

Do you have that with NASCAR?

Is it a quieter life?

It's a quieter life where I'm not really the show, even though as of late, you know, I've been in the forefront a lot more than I probably anticipated.

But I think the sport needs it to some degree, and my team needs it.

And I want them to see the passion that I have for winning and for the, you know, being a part of the team.

When I say I wanted to retire and get to a quieter life, I wanted to get away from basketball in terms of what I represented in that, in that arena and what, you know, how big I've gotten.

And it was such a huge burden for me in that sport.

Here, the burden's not quite the same, you know, and I'm not, I'm not in that same realm, even though it has evolved to be that now because of the lawsuit, obviously because of the awareness that I'm being, I'm bringing to NASCAR.

It's still not the same as me playing in Chicago and, you know, those types of things.

But it's something that, that I think keeps me alive.

Vibrant.

Vibrant.

Fired up.

Yes, yes.

When you say burden, what do you mean burden?

The burden of living a certain way, you know, living up to, trying to maintain whatever everybody's perspective is for you or was for you, that is a, that is a burden, you know.

And it's a lot of people that have to endure that.

And there's a certain period of time that you can go through it.

And then at some point in time, you say, I'm tired of, you know, I'm tired of doing that.

And I have nothing left to prove.

I have nothing left to prove.

Nothing at all.

Is there, is there a teeny tiny part of you that misses basketball, that misses, that wishes you could pick up a ball?

Oh, 100%.

It's not just a teeny, it's a huge beast.

But I, I, I, I've compensated that, that, that feeling through NASCAR or through fishing that I go, and fishing, but that urge to dream that if I, I wish I can still pick up a basketball.

You would still, you would.

Oh, I would love to do that.

You would?

Believe me.

My competitive juices is, yeah.

I would definitely love to do that.

You're considered the great.

Do you think there's room for more than one great?

Is there room for more than one goat in basketball?

There's no such thing as goat, you know, to me.

No such thing?

Not to me.

It's only because I think, you know, we are transcended from other people, other, other athletes.

We learn from other athletes, we progress the game as we move further.

To say that one is better than the other, it's not really right.

Do you think for many people, there's a stigma still associated with NASCAR racing?

Do you think there is a stigma, number one, and do you think that you can change it or that it needs to be changed?

I'm pretty sure there is a stigma.

I think it's changing.

I think, you know, generationally, you know, change has to happen.

You know, it's how you connect to that next generation is going to be the biggest key.

I think that's where NASCAR is going to be challenging, where we all can help, you know, because of, you know, change.

You know, being able to connect to more African Americans watching NASCAR or more, you know, people getting involved, young.

I mean, to me, that's where I think change is going to happen, you know.

And the perception of this whole thing that we're doing now and us winning, I think it's a step towards that, you know, people watching NASCAR that they never watched before because, obviously, because we're winning.

I mean, that's a part of the change.

Because you're winning and because you're you.

That's a part of it.

You have something to do with it.

I will.

As long as I win.