Selena Gomez - Zane Lowe & Apple Music Rare Interview

Man, if we can't, like, keep the fake intro, and I have to do the professional intro...

Well, you can.

Thank you for joining us.

We're in a nondescript coffee shop here in Santa Monica to discuss what is considered now a modern, timeless pop classic.

Selena Gomez, over the course of 10 years, has been through many challenges and also many triumphs.

She finds herself today sitting here with a brand new album called Rare, and we're here to discuss it.

Selena, hello.

Hello.

That was really impressive.

See, I can do it, I just don't want to.

Happy New Year.

Happy New Decade.

Happy 2020.

How did you feel in the context of knowing that you were starting 2020 really hitting the ground running super fast, like the album's out?

I know.

And it's barely gotten started, and so I suppose in a weird way, that means that you end the year with a set of really mixed emotions.

Like, can you relax knowing that's coming?

I can.

I mean, this is four years of my life, and I think I'm completely okay with releasing it.

But there had always been something that was preventing me or scaring me from doing it.

And I'm so glad that I followed that gut instinct, because it's so crazy that every single moment counts, down to literally Losey to Love Me and Look at Her Now is out.

But we were still, like, the last day writing music that the song, I personally think, is going to be one of our biggest as well.

It's just that's the kind of magic that happens.

And I know that happens with other artists, but the people I'm surrounded by, it just happens, and I'm so grateful.

Plus, the song's pretty awesome, so I'm pretty proud.

And it seems to me like good people were the difference this time.

No disrespect to who you worked with before, but it feels like you really chose your collaborators very deliberately on this album.

Yeah.

Well, I think my role, thank you, I think my role, you know, has been, I don't want to work with anyone who doesn't want to work with me.

I think I just found my group, and I think I'm getting better and better, but I only know that that means it's because of the people I'm surrounded by.

That inspired me, that challenged me.

And I think the past few years, or hell, decade, if you want, I think I was really kind of hurting, and I think that prevented me from doing a lot more creatively or even content-wise of what I wanted to say.

I'm interested, and I was in the studio last night, I was like, I actually just kind of want to keep going, which I never do.

Now I get to have more say, too, when it comes to even putting the music together.

I was always so scared to speak up with producers.

Now I know most of them so well that I just give them shit, and I'm always just like, well, I don't, you know, I've never done that really before, where I'd have a conversation.

And it was an important experience for me.

Were there times when you were making the record during that four years when you were, like you say, in pain, where you wondered whether or not you would ever get another album or a body of work out, or that it would take even longer than it has, that you wanted to throw in the towel and maybe just walk away from that process?

Maybe, but I was under a contract.

So, maybe.

But when I would have those moments, it never lasted.

It was almost like I'd have the low moment and then be like, no, fuck it.

I gotta, like, keep going.

I've got to, now I feel like I need to say something.

And then there's a period where I don't have anything to say.

And it just would pick up quickly when I needed it to happen.

Who were some of the people that you, aside from your collaborators, that the small group of people that you kind of, I suppose, went to to say, is this good?

Like, am I on the right path?

Am I making sense?

Am I speaking my truth?

Is it good enough?

I didn't.

Wow.

I didn't have anyone listen.

It needed to be something that I liked.

For you to take on that challenge to a degree, yourself whilst going through this challenging time, like that can be, you know, ultimately fulfilling.

But at the time, I'm sure there were lonely moments, you know, where you, like you say, that makes the doubt even more kind of prevalent, doesn't it?

When you're kind of on your own trying to work out, navigate your way through this static to find some clarity and vision.

Right.

I mean, it's safe to say that I was sad.

It's like, whatever.

But I think to me, it's such a distant thought.

I'm not in that place anymore.

And I think maybe before I used to lie and say that so that people would get it, but I kind of show everything that I'm feeling in my face.

But it's not even, like I can't even go there anymore if I try.

It just doesn't seem like it's a part of me anymore.

Any of those ties, soul ties or mental stuff, everything going on, it's all of it's under control.

And this is where I'm going and I see it very clearly.

So there's a lot of liberation on this record.

And even the moments when, you know, you're diving into subject matter to resolve it for yourself, it feels like you're doing so with the purpose of trying to get to a place, a liberated place.

And so I wonder, you know, at the end of the process, what did you let go of?

What did you no longer need in your life once you'd kind of been through this process of writing this album and getting out the other side?

Well, I definitely had to get

probably the most toxic thing out of my life first.

then it started becoming being a bit more vocal.

I am naturally a people pleaser.

So it's just more kind of saying, no, this isn't what I'm going to do.

I started noticing, you know, people were putting, that were like setting up sessions.

It seemed like favors or something.

It just, it kind of got confusing for me.

And I think that's why I tend to, one of the many reasons why I tend to just always go with Ian, Julia, and Justin.

Trust.

Loyalty, trust, understanding.

Don't give a shit about the industry and believe in the art and believe in music and believe in what I'm saying.

I have the greatest label.

I'm so grateful for John and all of that.

That's not really what I'm describing.

I guess it's just, it is weird.

And especially being in the position that I'm in as a pop artist, it is harder when it's like, oh, we're having all these things because we think you should sound like this.

Yeah.

I learned a lot this past year about how to navigate that.

So when you write a lyric like, people go from people you know to people you don't, surely that's like a great moment for you, a moment where you recognize that's just a part of humanity.

That one's funny because it was actually, my friend Liz was her friend that had the hook.

And so it was actually random because it came out of nowhere.

God, take it.

Which was really fun.

Yeah.

Everyone goes through it, you know?

We go through seasons.

People are meant to be in your life for some and others they're not.

I think if you accept that though, that's an ultimately positive thing, isn't it?

When you realize that if you stop holding on so tight.

Yeah.

To the idea.

I hated change.

I mean, I kind of still do.

But every time I'm on the other side, I'm like, oh, I get it.

Thank you for that one.

Needed that.

What did you get?

Like, what do you get from when you come out of this side?

What do you recognize?

What do you realize?

What do you learn from it?

Okay.

Good example is, I would say it's about eight, ten years.

It was really painful.

And I think when Lose You to Love Me came out, in the reaction it got, I definitely knew it was a special song.

I didn't know that it was going to become what it was.

It was your first number one.

People responded to it in such a huge way.

I think when that happened, I had a moment where I said I completely get it.

The agony,

the confusion, the self-doubt, all of that wrapped up into that song.

That was a moment where I got it.

I got, I needed that.

I went through that for something like this, for other people.

And that was a really special moment.

I can't think of anyone who's lived the kind of life you've lived and you're still only 27 years old.

To be launching a music career at 17 with what you'd already done and then to go through the process of growth and identifying and understanding who you are, all in the space of the public eye.

And you worked the whole time.

How hard was it to find a balance?

Was that one of the biggest challenges?

Finding the balance between work and you?

Because you didn't start working.

Even when you were getting sick, you still worked.

Yeah.

I think I needed to because it kept me going.

So sometimes I pushed myself too far.

When I did have to take moments and step back, I didn't find that it was embarrassing or that I was letting myself down or letting fans down.

It meant that I needed to make sure.

I didn't want to, basically I didn't want to get to a certain age where it was almost too late that I didn't figure this stuff out.

And I had been going through all of these different emotions, not specifically within relationships.

It's personal.

It's, you know, bigger than that.

It's people at home.

It's, there's, there was a lot there.

And I'm grateful because it has brought me through all of it.

But I have this relationship with my job and my work that keeps me going.

I know it's kind of stupid, but I always say to my fans that they have saved me from a lot of situations.

You know, you're built up just for them to knock you down.

It keeps going.

It's going to keep happening.

But what stayed consistent in my life was that.

And because of social media, which I'm able to have more of an intimate relationship with them.

And that's, you know, my, I draw my boundaries to a specific point, but it's literally people that I've known for years.

And that meant so much to me.

So do you sometimes go and read things and dial into the timeline when no one knows just to kind of see what people, you don't do that.

No, I didn't have social media for two years.

You mentioned that you hadn't been on social media at the start of the last conversation we had.

And I kind of wished I'd sort of dived in a little bit more into that because I just out of a pure personal level want to know what that's like.

Like what it's like when you don't look at it because I still find myself, my screen time still creeps up.

I still find myself falling into that habit.

I don't know.

You just got to do it.

My, I was driving myself crazy.

First off, there was a million things that I didn't want to see.

Yeah.

And I would see them over and over and over again.

Yeah.

Then I'm comparing.

Then I'm looking at these people and I'm like, how do they, it just, it's all the things that people say, right?

It's nothing new.

It's that you usually sometimes feel like shit.

You have FOMO.

Everyone's life looks amazing.

And that happens to me too.

I'm like, well, what am I not, like I'm missing the plot here.

Like, right?

Something's, how come it's so fun for everyone else?

Then it just started getting dark.

Like there were accounts that were dissecting me down to my body, to my face, to my features,

choices I've made, telling stories.

And it drove me crazy.

Because I honestly just wanted to be like, none of you are.

Qualified.

Like none of you even know what you're talking about.

And it just destroyed me.

So I stopped.

And I tell every single person, everything changed.

You know?

And I'm also, I'm also, I'm living in that time where there's a specific look that's going on within females.

So that would get in my head as well.

You know, yeah, I do look young.

So there's nothing I can do about that.

Of course I am 27.

But sometimes I'm like, oh, I look like a baby.

Which is stupid.

And I don't fit into that look.

Which isn't a bad thing.

And it's not bad that that's what people enjoy and like.

It's whatever makes you feel comfortable, of course.

But like when I was out of social media, I was so much happier with just me, myself, how I looked.

And that helped a lot.

During those reflective times, you know, when you're getting into a place and you find yourself going into a personal space where you can just have the freedom to think about what you want, not be distracted.

What's the one thing, the prevailing question or prevailing anchor you kept coming back to that you knew you had to get through?

I just needed to let my old self go.

I was purging multiple different things, but it was specifically how I, who I was then.

I would like to say that this is a fresh start.

And I started with this album, but I, I'm going to continue to just do better and do everything I can to make it great.

I mean, it's a, it's a complete human experience, this album from start to finish.

It starts with a song called Rare.

And which is just a, I mean, I've never heard that in a song.

I loved that.

That actually is a word that sums up

what the purpose of, of my position is, which is letting people know that they are completely unique within who they are.

So that's the biggest thing, right?

It's like they don't fit in or they feel like they need to be a certain way.

And who are they looking up to

is very scary also to know who they're looking up to.

And I think it was such a perfect description of how I think girls are, or women are meant to feel.

You know, it's, it's, it's even acknowledging I don't have it all, but I do know that I'm worth something.

I'm not going to settle and I'm going to wait because there is something out there that, that is going to give me that feeling that I deserve and that I want.

You know, to get the best out of your collaborators and the best out of each experience in a recording studio, you know, you have to be as honest and open with each other as possible.

How was that for you knowing that you were going to dredge up details and examples and stories and even people and even people by name and share that with people in a trusted environment?

Like, I don't see how you could have made Rare without doing that.

The subject matter on the record as well as you, as well as you're hiding it and keeping it to yourself and letting us work it out.

I figure you got to go there to be able to, to dress it up different.

It would be, it didn't even need to, it didn't even needed to be said.

Yeah.

And it's not because I wanted any sort of spotlight on that situation.

If anything, I'm wanting the spotlight completely separated.

Yeah.

But it wasn't in a vindictive way.

It was simply like, okay, I actually have my part to say.

And I waited.

I wasn't just, you know, irrationally doing something to just be like coming from a place of, well, ugh, like I'm over it.

That that's not where I was.

When it all came together, it just felt right.

And I was okay with that.

Other than the fact that they pay attention a bit more to my personal life than maybe others, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be gone in a day.

There's going to be another story.

There's going to be something else.

So people will ultimately know, yes, where the inspiration came from, but then it kind of ends there.

Moving away from any particular individual and just talking about the concept of having a normal human relationship, as long as you've been interested in forming any kind of bond with anyone, it's been visible for the most part.

And I just, I figure that's got to distort at some point your concept of what a normal relationship is or what the possibilities are.

Whether you acknowledge that at some point and decided, no, I need to get back to a place where this, recognize this is just an unusual and strange environment.

Well, if I can be honest.

Of course, always.

It is so cliche.

It's just,

everyone dates everyone.

It always seems to be within a little bubble and it's because it's safe, right?

It's, you know, you're wanting someone to understand what you're going through.

You're almost wanting a counterpart of creativity as well.

And it's, you know, interesting and fun.

But the problem with that is that you end up, whether you admit it or not, you're having a relationship for people and not even for yourself.

There's almost this point where it's like, oh, we're making it known that we're together or whatever, you know, whatever it is.

It's like, you just need to decide within our world if it's for you or is it for show.

Yeah, right.

There's a song on the record that comes in second, which is...

Dance Again.

Yeah, Dance Again.

Which is, you know, borderline kind of house techno, throw yourself on the dance floor.

How fun is that?

It's so much fun.

And what's cool about it is it has all the emotion that you want from a great dance record.

It's not just this kind of like bolsterous, hands-in-the-air banger, like, cliche.

Right.

It's like, nah, man, it draws you in and it makes you really think.

You emote when you listen to it and you'll emote it when you dance to it, which I think is the perfect kind of dance music.

Yeah.

And it kind of complemented vulnerable because when we wrote the record, it was very...

We were just talking about the next kind of chapter of when I step into meeting someone.

It's like, if I were to give you all of these things, are you able to do that?

I expect that.

If not, I'm totally okay letting that go, but I'm still gonna remain vulnerable.

I'm still going to remain open and okay with my emotions, okay with being pissed or sad or upset about it.

So it kind of complemented that.

Dance Again is saying I'm able to get back to that.

Was that a...

That's a Justin?

Yeah.

Come and sit down.

Let's talk about this record and dive into it.

And two.

Hi.

Welcome back.

Welcome.

As you heard, Selena Gomez is releasing her brand new album.

which is called Rare.

We're now joined for part two.

And I hope you like it.

By her esteemed colleagues, Justin Tranter, Julie Michaels.

Great to see you.

I like that.

Good afternoon.

Great to see you, darling.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

This is part of the loyalty crew.

Hell yeah.

Thank you.

This is part of the crew that, if I may say, is someone who...

And I'll just be honest with me, I'll be honest with you.

Do it.

Up until Revival, I can't say I was an expert in Selena Gomez as a musician.

Yeah.

It was your collaboration as the three of you that really got my attention.

Yeah.

It was when I felt like, oh, wow.

There's something really unique going on here.

And there's like my favorite kind of subversion, which is taking what I thought I knew about somebody and ripping it to shreds.

Yeah, it's my favorite.

I love that.

So that to me, 2015 was when it kind of started for me.

And I wonder what those kind of first days for you guys were like and how you got to a place where you could start to rip it to shreds.

I mean, I'll just speak personally.

My intro to Selena came from this little boo-boo.

I was in a band for a long time, which we've talked about many times.

But when I first started writing songs with and for other people, she was like the first collaborator I met who was like, oh, you want to talk about really weird sh**?

And she and Selena had already worked together and she was like, Selena likes to talk about weird sh** too.

And so then...

You also just wanted to talk about real sh**.

Yeah.

You know, which is so exciting, you know, for writers like us who want to write only from honest opinions in the States.

And I think that

they made it okay for me.

You know, I don't like going in and tell...

Like, I go in and I'm like, we usually talk for hours just about everything.

And then usually we pick up things.

Like, I think you understand the ways of like a room when it comes to writing.

It's like, the more that we talk about, the more detail we go into, the more it's easy for us to write about.

Yeah.

And I, like, you know, obviously it takes a level of comfort and a level of trust, but you are pretty much an open book.

Like, you'll go in and you'll be like, this is what's happening.

Please help me make art out of my misery, basically.

Yeah, basically.

Yeah.

It was at that point I think when we had started working, it just felt so natural and it felt like they believed in what I was saying.

Not that anyone around me didn't, it just, it was able to take it to a place where I was so excited about the music.

This meant more, you know, and I love revival and what we did with that.

But then, you know, transitioning into what we did.

It's a lot more stuff to untangle, too.

Yeah.

There's more pain to write about.

Yeah.

I have to ask because you seem really well and really healthy and I want to and you've got friends on the couch now, so, you know, you've been dealt with some real challenges with your health and after you met Justin and Julia, you went through one of those again in a significant way and I'd actually like to ask Justin and Julia, like, when Selena came back to work, like, came back to write, did you notice a difference?

Did you feel there was a change in the way she approached her music after she'd been faced with that?

I don't know, we've always been so close and so honest with each other but I did definitely see you in this album, like, what you mentioned before, like, her confidence in, like, what the album should be and what the music should be.

Your confidence definitely, like, she was always like, this is what I want to talk about, this is what's happening but this time it was, like,

more melodies were coming directly from her, more production ideas were coming directly from her so that, that, whether that was...

More journal entries.

More full journal entries.

Is it related, do you think?

Do you think you came out of that going, you know...

I, well, first off, I'm a huge advocate for mental health.

I have this dream of mine that's, you know, beyond all of this where I think that personally it should be required in schools to be taught dialectical behavior therapy.

There is something I read where in, you know, I think it was the 50s, the 14-year-old kids of today have the same anxiety and depression as a 40-year-old in the 50s.

That says so much and I don't know why that perhaps doesn't shake people up a bit to where maybe there should be more of that accessible.

I agree.

But I am glad that it is being discussed more.

I'm glad that we are having the conversation but it does.

It saved my life.

Yeah.

1,000% I needed to know.

Yeah, and stopping to know that it might have been bigger than something I could control.

And I think to what Justin was saying, it is a huge part of how I was able to release it and let it go.

And sometimes we would just even write songs that were like just to purge things out and like, that's never going to see the light of day.

But it's just, you know.

That verse is not allowed to ever see the part.

Exactly.

I love that process.

I love the fact that you're willing to go in there and kind of clear out the tank before you actually get down to the pure stuff.

Yes.

Well, you don't even know you're doing it.

You're just like, okay, let's write this thing saying whatever we're saying.

And then you kind of, you finish it and you're like, okay, that was really fun but no one can ever hear that.

Right.

For whatever reason it is.

Wait, wait, that's a good word, fun.

We've covered some heavy ground in this, right?

But this is a fun record.

There's fun songs on this record.

There's one called Fun.

Yep.

Those two.

Of course it is.

I mean, that's just, man.

Like, you love words and you love words.

Like, that is a perfect marriage.

And so when you guys first connected and started doing that, it must have been fantastic.

And also to move into this album too, like, what's one of your favorite songwriting moments on this record, the two of you think, if you can find a common one?

Lose You to Love Me happened when I had come home from tour.

It was on Valentine's Day that we wrote it.

And I think that's probably one of my favorite.

That is a powerful moment on Valentine's Day.

That's like, wow.

And it was also our first time seeing you.

Yeah.

In so long.

Since I got back.

I think it was just one of my favorites just because we were all, like, reunited again and doing it again.

And where had you been?

Where were you coming back from?

A treatment center.

Wow.

And so when you walked in that room, did you have a line or an inkling or an emotion that you knew you had to cover or did you just let it happen naturally?

Well, usually Julia texts me.

It's kind of like how it works when everyone's kind of getting in the studio.

When she asked me, I felt it was kind of

overdone, the subject.

And I just said, I'm sorry that this is what I'm going to give you, but I'm still not fully done with this.

She's like, got it.

And so when I walked in and it was literally just the piano and the chorus and a bit of the first verse.

And I just like sat there.

And I tell people this too because it was also such a very raw moment.

A, I had just gotten back, but B, we were in the bright daylight, you know, and that's not normally how you're maybe talking about something like that.

And then, you know, Julia had to leave.

Well, we did the second verse and then you guys did the bridge.

Yeah.

Without me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Got it, got it.

But I FaceTimed her.

I was like, okay, we know these lyrics are great for the bridge, which is now the outro, but like, we need your approval on the melody because even though she's the queen of words, she also writes some of the best melodies of all time.

Definitely.

And she was like, yep, approved.

And we're like, okay.

That was it.

You know, it was just done.

And it was very quick.

I feel like the ones that come the quickest for us are usually the ones that feel the most right because we're not overthinking it and we're just in it.

It's a human album.

Like I said, it's a human album.

It covers a lot of ground of what it is to kind of feel a lot of things from the very deep right through to the frivolous, you know, and it's equally important as each other.

Yeah.

You can't live deep all the time.

You go crazy.

Yeah.

Sometimes you just need to write a song like Crowded Room.

There is this married couple that I'm friends with.

They're older and they're awesome.

And they had told me this story, which was really sweet, very cheesy, but adorable.

They do a lot socially.

So they're in rooms a lot.

They're with a lot of people.

And one of their things that they do is that they're not always together, which I love.

I admire.

They're like, we don't really stay in every moment.

We go and do our own thing.

And throughout the night or day or whatever they're doing, they'll just kind of make eye contact and do this and then turn away, which means you're my number one.

And it's just a check-in.

And it's kind of cheesy, but I thought that was so sweet.

And so the concept of Crowded Room and it feeling, you know, that it's just you, you two, is very romantic and it's fun.

And then to get Black on it was awesome.

Yeah, I mean, you've picked your collaborators brilliantly.

I mean, why did Black come to mind?

I mean, apart from being a great melodic writer and a fantastic artist.

So we had discussed features and at first I didn't want any.

We were kind of going through what, you know, who would, A, want to do it, but would sound great and compliment.

For me, it's his tone and his, like, it's his voice as well.

So it's kind of the rapping part, but it's the singing.

So I was blown away when I got his cut because obviously they go and do their thing and so it was awesome.

Except for the Cutty thing.

I mean, the Cutty thing sounds like it was far more of a genuine old school collaboration.

Yes.

How did that come about?

I have to ask.

I mean, he's one of the cornerstone artists of our time.

Yes.

So I went into the studio with MNEK and Madison.

Everyone was kind of saying, maybe we should do up-tempo and I said, I don't know, let's try something acoustic.

Messed around with that.

I didn't like it.

It didn't work.

We scratched the idea.

And I kind of got exhausted so I said, I want to do something weird like Kid Cudi.

And I mean that in a compliment.

And I didn't know what that was going to be so we were listening to different sounds but I just had that melody when they were saying, what does that mean?

You know?

And I'm like, something where he's so good at storytelling but changing it up with every line.

It almost has a character to it.

And so that was when...

He does have a very distinctive melodic sense about it.

Yeah.

I mean, it's very there.

You know who you're listening to.

You know, that's when the melody came about where it has that kind of sing-song, like playground type of chorus.

And so we had nothing to it.

It was just that.

Then we did the verses and my A&R came in.

I said, this is who inspired it and, you know, how do you like it?

I was really excited about it.

And without my permission,

which will never happen again.

Wow.

Because I was...

I have a major fear of rejection.

And so I think they know that I also don't...

It's not take advantage.

It's just like I'm scared to ask artists, especially certain artists that are particular.

So someone sent the record to his management.

Apparently, he had heard it that exact day and he loved it.

So then they told me and I remember exactly how it went down.

I was like, what?

I was like, oh my gosh.

I was like, no, you're kidding.

And then I was like, how?

How the hell did he know?

And then it was that moment where I found out and I was kind of like,

yes.

Amazing.

I'm so excited.

And you were so fired.

There was just a no.

There was a bit of just, I was a little annoyed, but it was perfect.

And so he wanted to have a phone call and that's when I had told him, as far as production-wise, I said, I would trust you on this.

You know, I've built this part up and if you like it, I know kind of, of course, I know your ability and what you can see.

So I'd actually love to know what you feel and hear what you feel for the record.

Then he came to LA and we were in the studio for two days.

It was very, very scary at one point because giving,

cutting notes is like the scariest thing in the world to me.

But I had ideas for the intro and stuff and his response to that made me feel so comfortable because it ended up working and it was so great that it happened that way.

Surely you can finish off an experience like that and it gets you somewhere closer to not being so scared to ask and trusting yourself more.

because you've got

two of the best writers

in the world on your team and you've got Cuddy.

Why are you making that face?

Is that too much?

She doesn't like compliments.

I love them, by the way.

Keep going.

One of the greatest songwriters of our generation and his sidekick on your team.

It's kind of vice versa.

I guess I'm trying to get it and I don't want to come across as overly concerned or patronizing but yeah, through all the achievements of your life and all the work you've done, the work and everything, the journey you've been on to 27, a very pivotal year, an important year.

Surely now you can think about this album and the kind of people that ride for you on this album and want to be a part of it based on the quality of the music but also just what an honest and genuine person you are.

Does that resonate now?

Are you able to acknowledge and appreciate that?

I think that's how I've continued to have a career is that I'm very okay

with speaking about myself through that.

I think that's truly what has sustained me and I don't do it purposefully.

I do it because it's necessary for me.

I came from Disney who I have the utmost respect for and has, you know, that they changed my life.

But when you're coming from a machine like that, you end up losing a bit of that vulnerability because you are meant to carry something, which is carrying that brand and making sure that you are being a respectful person that families are okay with and that kids can look up to.

And so I had dealt with that for so long that I had been conditioned.

And when I chose to do Spring Breakers, that was a huge moment, you know, and it's very controversial and, you know, it was definitely one of those moments.

But it just, it slowly happened where I didn't want to have to be okay.

I needed to say something because it got to a point where everyone else was saying something and that would drive me crazy.

So that's why I'm always really adamant by saying if it doesn't come directly from me, it's definitely, most of the time, 90% of the time, not true.

I was able to gain control of that and I think that's when everything real started happening for me.

And Good For You was the starting point for music in that world.

Without sacrificing, vulnerability is the important.

And that's why that song is so important on the record.

Yeah.

It sits in your album to me deliberately.

It's the centerpiece of the album, I think.

That song.

Thank you.

And I think that that message that you're saying there of like, alright, even through all of that, like I'm still going to be that person that's going to lay it on the line.

Right.

But now, I have expectations where it's like if I were to do this or if I were to give you, are you strong enough?

Are you capable of being someone that's going to be in my life?

That's how I approach things now.

And I'm not being conceited.

I'm saying it's actually an honor to be with me because I think I'm a great person and I love people deeply and I won't tolerate ever being treated the way that I had been.

That's the song.

It's not just me being like, I'm still vulnerable.

It's like, well, I am, but I need these things

for you to get that from me.

What was the most, going down the line, what's the most fun or memorable experience you had working on this project with Selena on Rare?

There was a couple.

I mean, even though, Oh, Look at Her Now was a really, really fun day.

That was a super fun day.

I had just come back from seeing this one perform in San Diego and it was just like, if anyone tells you they know a song's a hit, that they're a liar, but you know when something feels special when you're writing it, right?

And so we knew, Ian started playing the track.

When you're writing a song where the chorus is mm-mm-mm-mm, that's a fun fucking time.

Yeah.

That was really fun and kind of just like

telling that was now however many months after we wrote Lose You to Love Me and it was like this feeling of like, no, but actually, look at her now.

No one's crying today.

This is fucking fine.

So that was a really cool moment.

Yeah.

And we hadn't been, all three of us, with Ian

since we did Bad Liar.

So that was like, so Lose You to Love Me was the first time us and Matman and Robin had been together in a long time and then, and Matman and Robin did Hands to Myself.

So then this was the first time we were back with Ian.

So it was like, kind of like both times bringing different posses back together.

And that was a really, really fun day.

And I think I already had like two glasses of wine before I got there, which just always makes life better.

Yeah, that was so fun.

It was so fun.

It was almost like, I don't even think we were objectively like trying to be strategic.

Like we're going to make this song about this.

It was just that.

Yeah.

Yeah, you built around that.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that was really fun.

Yeah.

Celine, do you have one that jumps out that really kind of, that you'll carry with you or that you think about this album, now it's done and it's out and it's ours before you let it go completely?

Like, is there one kind of really special memory that you'll carry with you from the experience?

Well, to what Julia said, definitely lose you.

I had an amazing time working on Vulnerable.

The conversation that led up to what the song is and the meaning behind it was really fun for me and special.

Then, look at her now.

Fun was actually fun.

I was going to say, fun was a good time.

Yeah.

It was like kind of the first time when we had gone in the studio after a while

where you were kind of like, I don't really want to talk about anything that I'm going through anymore.

You're like, I've done it.

I feel like I've done all those songs on my record and you were like, I just want to do something fun and I was like, well, okay.

Literally.

She was like, let's write a song that says fun and I was like, great.

Because it is, ultimately, right?

That's what brought us all here together is it's fun to listen to, even the hard stuff and it's fun to make and that's the trade.

That's the ultimate trade.

You get the process, we get the result.

You get to take what you've learned from it and apply it to your life.

We get to take what you've made from it and apply it to ours.

And it's this magic trade that's been going on for so long and it never gets tired because every experience is unique for you and it's unique for us.

And that's the most

memorable part.

Yeah.

And even the songs that are sad or whatever, you still have so much fun in the process.

It's still so cathartic and magical.

Right.

Yeah.

Completely.

No, and her bravery and the honesty in the music, it also goes through everything.

You were talking about how you get so scared to ask people for features and stuff.

My version of that is all the activism and fundraising I do.

I get so scared to ask people I work with to do things.

And I came to the studio one day and I had just gotten a phone call that I was going to receive the ACLU award.

And I was like just telling her because I was so excited because as an activist that's like the dream f***ing award.

And without even questioning she's like, well, so what can I do?

And I was like, what?

Amazing.

She's like, what can I do?

And I was like, do you want to present me with the award?

And she was like, yeah, of course.

Of course, yeah.

Where it's like, so it's like that, you don't get that with, you know, we are very lucky to work with lots of amazing people but like this friendship is a pretty special thing.

And like, I was like, oh, I don't have to ask for a feature which is my version of a feature.

It was like, I just told her and she was just like, I'll be there.

Just tell me when.

And she like had to move a bunch of s*** for me and she was there.

You did the same thing for my show.

Yeah.

We were working on fun.

I was like, I'm performing in LA and you were like, oh my God, I want to come.

I was like, you can come.

She was like,

can I sing with you?

I was like,

you guys think she's doing you a favor?

She's just inviting yourself to weddings all over town.

It's so true.

She's just like, man, I've got nothing to do tonight.

Can I come and hang out?

No,

but it's not like she's doing a favor.

It's just like, this is what people, friends do.

It's extending the experience.

And I love them.

We love you too.

And you can tell that it's just now become that.

And I think what I also want to say that's super important is I know, well, everyone knows that they have already on their own done insane,

huge, monumental music.

Great work.

You know, and I'm very honored that they have chosen to be a part of moments like this with me because they mean a lot to me.

But it's also, it's also them separately.

that makes all of it great.

You know, we were there when Julia was literally saying I would never be an artist.

Like, would you know, release your own stuff?

No, I would never do it.

Then she had this song that she'd played and it was called Issues.

I think you were like, I was maybe going to give it to someone and you're like, I'm just going to keep it.

And me and Justin were like, yes.

Like, does keep it mean like, put it out?

Or like, you're just going to like, keep it away from the world?

She's like, no, like put it out with my voice on it.

And we were so excited.

We even have a video that you have where I think it was at the moment it came out.

I think it was like the day it came out and we like, we're all in the studio so excited that, you know, her single came out.

And to be a part of that has been incredible as well.

I mean, you say we've done incredible things, but like, a lot of the things that I've done have been because of you.

Like, I've had my first platinum record with you, my first number one song on the radio with you.

Like, you've been so many of my firsts.

And I'm, I'm, I'm just as grateful for you as, as, you know, you say you are for us.

We love, we love.

We've learned a lot today in the course of this two-part interview.

We've been through triumph and tribulation, a decade past that hopefully will never be dredged up in disgust again.

And a fresh start at 2020 with a new album called Rare, which promises so much and delivers even more.

But before we go, we have one more all-important question for the fans.

Wow.

I think it's kind of hot when you do that.

Thanks, thanks.

In 2016, you did 55 dates and you toured faithfully that album revival.

And I look back on your timeline now, I'm amazed you did it.

I can't believe you found the strength to be able to do that to it, but you did it.

So your work ethic is right up there.

Thank you.

But new decade, are you going to tour?

Are you feeling excited about playing live?

Do you want to do it?

It's my favorite thing

besides film.

It's my favorite thing in the entire world is actually connecting and having moments with everyone because it's theirs.

They've taken what I have and have made it theirs.

And to see physically what that means to people brings me to tears every time.

It's also mind-blowing that I am in a space with that many people.

As far as doing it within this year, I think I need to find ways where that's possible for me.

And that's just about the pace.

And, you know, I'm going to do something, hopefully, that's just not as typical and I hope it's not.

I don't want people to think it's lazy, but I just don't think some of the production and things like that need to be as big as they were for me, personally.

I think my favorite part is just, like, talking to them.

And sometimes all that other stuff is a distraction from who I actually am.

Yeah.

So I think I would do it differently.

And I do want to, so we'll see.

I mean, I hope you're proud of the record.

You should be.

I am.

You know, I mean, to get to where you've got to over the course of, I think from 2015 to now, that's the arc.

That's the arc that I see.

Yeah.

And I hear on this record.

And so, you know, start to finish, super tasteful, really honest, really straight up album.

And you said you wanted to keep going.

Are you going to keep creating?

Yeah.

Straight back in?

Yeah, I mean, I was in the studio last night.

I don't know, yeah, but it's always casual.

It's like, it's usually if anyone's available, then we'll do it.

And if everyone wants to, then we'll do it.

Maybe some outtakes, maybe some first verses, some purge verses.

Maybe see the light of day one day on a particularly brave and honest moment.

I've already been pretty honest, so.

You are an honest human being.

I really appreciate that.

It's always more fun when someone's willing to take, to move into an environment where they tell their truth, but never at the sacrifice of their own well-being.

And I think you do that really well.

Thanks for your time.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.