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Simon Sinek discusses AI's impact on humanity, emphasizing the value of struggle, human connection, and essential life skills over instant, AI-generated solutions. He explores the future of work, authenticity, community, and the irreplaceable nature of human experience and imperfection.
Published May 26, 2025
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Simon Sinek
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Interviewer: So my first question to you Simon is what are those things what are the biggest forces of changes that you see happening at the moment in all of our lives that you think we should probably talk about today
Interviewee: That is a big question and I think one of the mistakes we make and this is in general is we like things to be very neatly organized we'd like them to be black and white yes or no right or wrong and as you know the world is messier than that it is more nuanced than that and nothing operates in a vacuum everything is connected to everything especially in a in a world that's filled with this rising technology called the internet and this burgeoning technology called the social media and desires and feeling like belonging become more and more important we're struggling to find them loneliness epidemic stress epidemic suicide epidemics these are all feelings of disconnection lack of control and loneliness and so that only exaggerates our feeling of loneliness and despair and wanting more now etc etc etc and then you add in AI and now those feelings of insecurity are just exaggerated like crazy right so now I find AI there's an irony to AI right so if you go back to the 70s and 80s right you had the rise of robotics and so robots are now coming into our factories and we're able to cut employees by dramatic amounts and we put people out on the street who they're they worked in a factory their their father worked in a factory their father's father worked in a factory like this is this is what they know and they say but these robots are changing they're taking our jobs and the ruling classes and the and the wall street classes and the CEO classes they go yeah I know technology you're gonna have to find a new skill reskill reskill that's what you have to do reskill okay flash forward to AI here's where the irony comes in because the world is always nature pours vacuum and life seeks balance at all times right not always immediately but it seeks balance at all times it's always seeking room okay so flash forward to AI now you hear the knowledge workers it's the knowledge workers who are going my job it's the coders it's the finance people my job the plumber is not worried about AI at all the baggage handler at the airport here's zero about AI and so maybe the right response is it's the future man it's technology reskill reskill you know maybe maybe become a plumber you know by the way money's really good you get to work for yourself if you want you know um so I just find the pendulum kind of funny
Interviewer: with AI do you think it's overblown or do you think it really is cause for concern and deeper thought
Interviewee: The honest answer is I don't know. Everybody falls on one side of you're over you're over you're you know the sky is not falling chicken little or the sky is falling and we're all going to die right. The truth the truth like most things is probably somewhere in the middle but the the real answer is I don't know and neither does anybody else yeah and it seems that we should have some sort of controls because we didn't put any controls on the internet they did put controls on the internet in China like children don't have the same access to social media like kids do here. Europe has controls on the internet and America doesn't and we're the ones that seem to be suffering more because of the lack of controls on the internet so I think some some and by the way when people you know talk about deregulation and no controls I mean they make us wear seatbelts in our cars yeah you know there's nothing that we have speed limits you know and and it's for the greater good and yeah sure your seatbelt's uncomfortable but you'll get used to it like and it's fine you know so I I think the call for no reform is is wrong um there are correct limits to keep things safe. I am fascinated by AI, both the benefits and the weaknesses of it. But it is revealing to me something more important than what other people are talking about, which is we're a result-obsessed society right? Yeah, we care about output, we care about performance, we care about numbers, we care about final product more than anything right? And when people talk about AI, they talk about its remarkable ability to write the symphony, paint the painting, write the book, write the article, solve the problem, like it is. And by the way, the technology is incredible. I asked only a few months ago to please take this and put it in the style of me, and it was it was fine. I did it with a friend of mine who's also an author and we both did it for ourselves, we did it on each other, it was really fun and it was fine. I don't think it was good. It was it gave me a good start and I could edit it. I did it recently, we both did it, it was damn near flawless. It was it was scary good right?
Interviewer: so what are the other skills we need to
Interviewee: equip ourselves with based on the way that the world is heading two things one is this has always blown my mind a little bit 53 percent of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to this show so could I ask you for a favor before we start if you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button and my commitment to you is if you do that then I'll do everything in my power me and my team to make sure that this show is better for you every single week we'll listen to your feedback we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do
Interviewer: What are the other skills that you think we need to equip ourselves with based on the way that the world is heading? Because we're, you know, like the calculator came along and we no longer needed to be able to do complicated math. Yeah, completely forgot my times tables. I can't spell anymore. I said to my friends, the most I can do is nine times nine. That's like the top end of my range. But with spelling, it's the same. I get like half the word correct. But again, you know, so what are those skills?
Interviewee: I think it's all human skills. I think there needs so I think where the world is going to go and at least this is where I'm taking a bet is that as the end product becomes easier to produce, it's the humanity that's going to suffer. And unless we take personal accountability both as individuals and organizations to teach and learn human skills, they will disappear for all the reasons we're talking about. So how do I listen? How do I hold space? How do I resolve conflict peacefully? How do I give and how do I receive feedback? Those are two different skills. How do I have an effective confrontation? You pissed me off. Do I know how to approach you as a friend, as a colleague, without creating a massive fight or losing a friendship over it? Um, how to take accountability? How to express empathy? These skills, these very, very human skills are the things that we're already starting to see just with the internet and social media, um, are suffering. And so I think AI will only exaggerate the loss of those skills. And those skills are more important than learning how to spell.
Interviewer: What are your emotions when you think about AI and what's happening? Because I, I feel like the moment we're living in is a profound one and that we don't actually realize it because when these tools come out, OpenAI released yesterday, 3.0, it's the best model ever. The day after, my life was the same. So we don't really notice it because we go back to work. Our clients ask for the same thing. We have the same team members sat around us. It almost seems like the sand timer has rotated and we're on a clock and it's a slow disruption of our everyday lives. Sam Altman, the other day, on his Ted talk, three, four days ago, said in the short term, everything will appear the same. But in the long term, he goes, life is going to be completely different.
Interviewee: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, and look at any, any technology, like the like AI, it was kind of the same until it wasn't. And these are evolutions, not revolutions. Like there's a revolutionary bit. You know, like I remember when when the internet showed up and like brick and internet shopping showed up and all the technologists were like, it's the end of stores, it's the end of bricks and mortar, like done, like we'll never go to a shop again. Well, that didn't happen. Now shops struggle to compete against the internet. But that's a price thing. That's that's a business model thing. But we like going shopping because again, they've all of these companies always forget, especially technologists, they all forget that the end user is a human being. And most of us don't fully understand everything. Even even our iPhones, most people use a small percentage of all the capabilities of our iPhones. Most of us don't even know how to change the damn settings to make it do something we want, right? Even and neither do your kids. It's not an adult thing. It's not an old person thing. Like and there's a few people who get more out of it and good for them. Some people use it just as a phone, fine. And it's a bell curve. So I think there will be a few people, a few companies that will get more value out of these things than the rest of us. But I think he's right. I think there'll be a revolutionary bit and then it'll settle. I I I'm, I find this whole thing fascinating. When you ask me how do I feel, you know, depending on what subject I'm talking about, absolute fear and absolute amazement. I I have, I have both. And everything in between. When I think about how it affects democracy and the ability to make deep fakes and how it can manipulate people and their opinions to vote one way or another, I have real fear, right? When it comes to like productivity and the reshaping of business, you know, technologists and people who who are part of the internet revolution, they love to say, you know, 20 years ago, 80% of the jobs we have now didn't exist. They love to say that, right? But when you ask them now, though, they think they seem to think that I think it's the same, which is all those people are going to lose those jobs in white collar, you know, white collar jobs and knowledge workers. I think they're not going to not work. There's going to be new jobs. The IRS digitized a whole bunch of years ago. Right? They got rid of all the accountants and they put in all the computers, right? Do you know how much money the IRS saved when it completely changed the way it looked? The answer is zero. Yes. They got rid of all the accountants. The need to hire all the IT people. So the, the, the workforce looked different, but it didn't get smaller. And so I think the same thing. What it's good, we also we already know the massive incredible amounts of energy that it takes for AI to work. Data centers that use up massive amounts of electricity like we've never seen in our lives. Like nuclear has to be a thing. There isn't enough coal or oil or solar or wind to power these things. It just doesn't exist. So nuclear has to be a thing. So go be a nuclear engineer. Go, you want to get an advanced degree? I don't need you to be a coder, you know, coding was a thing. For a go be a nuke because by the way, you got to be just as smart to be a nuke as you have to be a. So you're going to start to see that you're going to see energy work. Um, I just think the jobs will change. I don't think they're going to like it's I'd completely, one thing I do disagree with, you know, it's not like you're going to be a bunch of people walking around bored. I just think the jobs will change.
Interviewer: If there was a 10-year-old kid stood here now and the 10-year-old said to us, guys, what do you think I should focus on?
Interviewee: I would say two things. Um, uh, one is going back to human skills. Learn how to be a good friend to your friends. Okay. How do I learn that? You're going to really need that. How does a 10-year-old learn that? Or how do you and I learn that? Both. A 10-year-old learns it that when they go and have a playdate at a friend's house, a smart parent takes away all the phones. But I would hate that the 10-year-old has a phone in the first place. But if they do, take away all the phones and make the kids go play. That when they have a fight, the parents make them say sorry. You know, go over to your friend's house and knock on the door and you're going to say sorry for the thing that you did. Um, we're going to teach kids how to resolve conflict. We're going to teach kids how to pay compliments. We're going to teach kids how to take accountability. And these are all the skills of, you know, what did you do wrong versus what did you, what you know, like it's not like, you know, it's not always the school or the teacher. Maybe your kid did is disruptive, you know, and so accountability is a real thing. And so I think if we teach those things to 10-year-olds and to adults, um, I think it makes for a better society. And the other thing is, go learn a real skill. And I don't mean like that, you know, prompting isn't a real skill. That's not what I mean. It's what I said before, which is it's the excruciating like, what makes great relationships great is not that you get along all the time. The best marriages, the best relationships, they're not absent of conflict. It's they know how to resolve conflict peacefully. By the way, I believe in world peace. I don't believe in a world without conflict. I believe a world in which we can resolve our conflict peacefully without the need to go to war to resolve conflict. This is why I like democracies because democracies can solve conflict without bullets. So I, the human skills, one. But I say a real skill, me like go do something difficult. Build something. Design something. Imagine something. Write something. And and and by the way, I'm totally fine even if you plug into chat GPT and say, tell me what's wrong with this, your grammar's all screwed up, you know, and like I said, I am smarter because I did it. I'm the reason I'm more confident than when I was younger. And I think that's one of the things people talk about. You get wise with age, you know, and like and you know, you have more confidence as you get older. And yes, that's all true. And there's multiple reasons for it. But I think one of the reasons is is the things that are happening to me now, I've gone through those things before. They were scary and kept me up at night the first time. And now I know how to do it. I'm not afraid of it anymore. And so I think what happens as you gain experience is you lose fear. And if chat GPT or whatever AI product we use does everything for us, I think you just end up scared.
Interviewer: What are you struggling with in this season of life? I think I've asked you this in every conversation we've had and the answers have evolved conversation to conversation. Yeah.
Interviewee: We'll both go, I'm doing so much right now. By the way, absolute joy. And I wish I had more time in a day. And not in the sense that I'm deprioritizing my friends. You know, you talked about how you, you know, you would give them all your money to secure them, but you don't give them any time. I actually treat a lot of, I've actually gotten very good at this. It's probably when you write a book about friendship, you sort of like take yourself on a little bit where I, I will schedule friends like meetings in the middle of the day. Haven't seen a friend for a while. Um, four o'clock in the afternoon, tea with, and I go, and I leave the office. Like I'm going to a meeting because nobody says, Simon, where are you going? To a meeting? Where you're having the meeting at that restaurant? People like, have fun. Nobody will give me any kind of grief if I'm leaving to go to a meeting. Now I go and see a friend. And when somebody says, can I cancel this French tea with friend because that, you have a phone call? You have to have like, no. Just like you wouldn't cancel on my meeting. Don't cancel on. So I treat ice. I put it in. And I give them equal weighting to things that have to do at work because I've become much more discerning. Like, do I have to have this meeting or this phone call today? Or can I do it next week? I could do it next week. And you realize we fake. We fake or we add fake urgency to things. And I, I have a friend who's kind of amazing. He he's way busier than me. And he he says, I don't want to spend time with anybody. Like I saw it was really funny. He came out of a meeting and it was, he had a meeting with a very fancy person who's, who's courting him for business. Right? Or he should be courting the other guy, actually. Very fancy person. And he comes out of the meeting. I'm like, how was it? It's like, total waste of time. I'm like, you don't want to do business. You? He doesn't want to work with you. I was like, no, he wants to work with me. He wants to work with me badly. Total waste of time. I'm like, what are you talking about? I was like, he's just some rich asshole. Like I learned nothing. I didn't enjoy it. And I don't want to work with him. And I was like, tell me more. He's like, I only want to work with people who when I spend time with them, they teach me something, I laugh, or I feel inspired when I walk away. And if somebody sucks my energy, I do not want to, I do not want to work with them. And I was like, that's amazing to have that level of confidence that you would turn down money in your business. And and now, what if we applied that as much as possible in our lives? Like, what if we stopped hanging out with friends who just sucked our energy? Are they really friends? Rather than spend more time with people who we enjoy? What if we take meetings from people we're excited to take a meeting with? Not that we just see dollar signs and opportunity. And what if we only partner with companies where we really like the people who are who work at those companies? Doesn't you don't have to have a relationship with the CEO, but I really, they've got a good culture. I really like working with them. And we make a little less money with them versus that other company, but I really like them because when things go wrong, I want to call that person. And and people ask me this all the time. They say, how do I choose a publisher? And I've seen this mistake a thousand times. I've seen people like, like former CEOs who are like, I now I'm going to write my book. I'm like, great, you've got a lot to say. And they've got multiple offers and there's a bidding war. And they always ask me, which one should I go with? Which publisher should I go with? And I always say the same thing, choose the one you're going to fight with best. Choose the publisher you're going to fight with best. They're like, what? I'm like, the goal is to make a good book. There's going to be creative tension, there's going to be fights. Choose the the publisher who believes in your idea, believes in you, wants to make a great book, who you're going to fight with really well. They, every single one of them ignores me. Every single one of me takes the biggest bid. And every single one of them has written a shitty book that didn't sell. Isn't that just relationship advice as well, then? Probably. Choose the person you're going to fight with best. And the number of times that we forget about the quality of the product and we just want it's the same. It's the same for job interviews, you know, don't, this is especially true for for young people, like when you're interviewing in a relatively junior job, entry level or slightly above, don't worry about how much they're going to pay you. Like just as long as they pay you a livable wage, you know, choose the job. Choose the job based on who you're going to work for. Choose the person. I used to in early on in my career, people, you know, HR people say, what are you looking for? I always, I'd always say the same thing. I said, the thing that I'm looking for is probably like looking for love, but I'm looking for a mentor. And every time I'd evaluate a job, I didn't care how glamorous the brand was, I didn't care how much money they're going to pay me. And by the way, it's not like I had money. I knew they were going to pay me something. I knew I could pay my bills. It's not like I've got, I'm not a trust fund baby. Like I needed an income. But one company offered me, you know, five thousand dollars more. And one company offered me five thousand dollars less. But I really liked the person over here. I took that job. And it was the same. If I got one thing right as a as a as a young person, it's that I always chose jobs based on who I would work for, not how much they were going to pay me or what account or what brand I was going to work on. And that's the one thing I got right. Because yes, I made less money than all my friends in the short term, but I got a, I got an education and a care and a love from somebody who took me under their wing. I am, I am, I am, I learned leadership from Dennis Glennon. I learned leadership from Peter and Tamagio. I learned leadership from Pamela Moffitt. I learned leadership from these leaders who took a weird liking, took me and took me under their wing. And they were exceptionally good leaders themselves. And I got that education. And all of them in the early days paid me less than I could have got somewhere else. And it's the same, choose the people.
Interviewer: In my, in my book that I wrote, the first chapter and it talks about this idea of these five buckets. And I'm giving, I'm trying to give young kids advice on how to prioritize their career. And it sounds somewhat similar to you. So I'm going to throw this concept at you and see see how it lands with you. So the idea was that we all have these five buckets when we're starting our career. And the first bucket is your knowledge. The second bucket is your skills. Now, these are the only buckets that no professional earthquake in your career can unfill, right? You can be fired, you can be canceled, whatever, you still have your knowledge and skills. But the other three buckets I'm about to name, they can fluctuate. Bucket number three is your network. Can fluctuate. Bucket number four is your resources. Can fluctuate. And bucket number five is your reputation. Can fluctuate. And the idea is that focusing on those first two buckets when you're young, opt choosing jobs based on how much they're going to fill those two buckets and also what they're going to fill them with and how relevant that information is. And when knowledge is applied, it becomes a skill. So you focus on filling your knowledge, you apply that knowledge into skills, and that really is the essence of career longevity. And as I noticed over time with people that I, I hired and then watched them throughout their careers and what they did, it seems to me that life over the long term typically brings you back down or up to the level of your knowledge and skills. I.E. I had this one kid step down from my company because he got a job offer at 21 to go be a CEO in America. And as he departs, I'm thinking he has not got the knowledge and skills to be a CEO. Within 24 months, the company had gone bust. He was back down to doing the same job he did for me. And I thought, life just like resets you to the level of your knowledge and skills over time. So what do you think of this? All these, I think we're saying the exact same thing.
Interviewee: You did it more eloquently than me. You know, I think, I think it's 100% right. Um, and the people who will fill that bucket with knowledge and skills are the people who, again, for some reason, they're good people, they're good leaders, they take a liking to you, and they will give you, they will put you in situations and they will let you screw up and fix your own problems, fix your own mistakes. Then that's what my bosses did for me. They rewarded my behavior when I got it right, as opposed to my results. Never got rewarded for my results. I always got rewarded for my behavior. So if I showed initiative, I got a result. I got a reward, even if the results didn't follow, right? And I could, I can tell you a great story on that. And if I got things wrong, they would say, wow, what are you going to do? Really screwed that one up, didn't you? Okay, what are you going to do? And they didn't, they weren't happy with me, but they let me fix my own messes. And they stood by. And I knew that they were there if I needed them. You know, Peter and Tamagio, one of the best leaders I ever worked for. Annoyingly, he never answered a single question I asked. Hey, Peter, what should I do? I don't know. What do you think we should do? Well, I think we should do this. I'm like, okay, so go do that. You know, what do you think, Peter? I'm asking you because I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. He's like, oh, well, you should probably go think about that. He was, it was the worst. But what he taught me was self-reliance. What he taught me was self-reliance. What he taught me was if I don't know, then I have to go keep searching and keep talking to people. I have to have a point of view. And may not be right, and I'll find that out myself too. And I also learned to have backup plans from him because something went haywire on me and it went so wrong. It ended up being okay, but they, he made me sweat it. And remember at the end of the day, at the end of this whole thing that went wrong, that was totally my fault. The phone rings. I see his, it was 6 p.m. Phone rings. I see his name come up on the caller ID. And I pick up the phone. I remember the whole call, word for word, right? I pick up the phone. I go, hello. He says, close call today. I said, yep. He said, better to get shaved by the bullet than hit by the bullet. I went, yep. He said, have a good night. I said, you too. That was the whole phone call. And so since then, since that experience, I always have a backup plan now. It doesn't mean it's all ready to go, but I've thought about if this thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work, what will I do? And I at least committed some thought to it. So if, if something does go wrong, I'm like, I'm a little bit ahead. Either have it planned, or I'm like, okay, okay, don't worry, I kind of, if this happened, I thought about this already. And it's only because of these great leaders. And it goes, this is this recurring theme of this whole conversation, which is it's the struggle. It's the journey, not the destination. It's the human beings that guide us. It's the human beings that hold space for us that make us better at what we do, better, better at how we show up in the world. And AI will absolutely make our lives easier. Like most technology makes our lives easier. That's kind of the role, the rule of technology, which is to make life a little easier, a little more efficient, a little quicker, a little less, you know, strain on the muscles, you know, that's kind of what it does. You know, from the plow, you know, all the way up to the internet and AI, it just makes life a little easier. But we're still human beings who are forced to live with human beings.
Interviewer: You're writing a book about friendship, that we're all waiting for. Yeah. I'm not going to ask you when it's due because I don't want to be your publisher. But um, I know that they chase and chase and chase and chase. But my my closing question is, why of all the things you could have written about? Simon, you're someone who's able to traverse several subject matters across business and life and everything in between, but you've committed yourself to the struggle of writing a book about friendship.
Interviewee: There's an entire industry to help us be better leaders, right? There's an entire industry to help you have a successful relationship or a successful marriage or even find a partner, right? Industries, books, companies. There's very little on how to be a friend. And if you think about, if you're going to have a successful career and can and can survive the stresses of career, and if you're going to have a successful romantic relationship or marriage and survive that, do you know what what you need in both of those circumstances? Friends. Because when your marriage is falling apart, you go to a friend. When your job is falling apart, you go to a friend. When. And there's a few things that I've discovered about friends that I find delightful. And I have been reorganizing my life to, as I and I mentioned it before, like I've been reorganizing my life to ensure that my friends aren't taken for granted. And that sometimes I do deprioritize work in order to see my friends and spend time with my friends because I know it feels good to them and I know it feels good to me. And I know that the only reason I can get through any work stress or personal stress I have is because of those magical human beings. And I will not take them for granted. And, um, doesn't mean it's always easy. I'm conflicted often. But I'm trying. And I also know, if you look at the work, the world today, like there's so much conversation about loneliness, depression, anxiety, inability to cope with stress, even the obsession with longevity. Like there's so much about these subjects. And some people treat it with drugs and then meditation and vacations and burn. Like there's so many theories. The one thing that fixes all of those things is friends. Friendship is the ultimate biohack. You know, we've talked about this before. I fundamentally believe that. And if it's so valuable, like, if I know if you know vegetables are good for you, you eat more vegetables. If you know exercise is good for you, you do more exercise. So if I say friends are good for you, shouldn't you do more friendships? Right? Like, shouldn't you, exercise is not fun or easy and you have to get over a hump sometimes. Eating vegetables can sometimes be boring and unsatisfying, but you do it. Or you find new ways. And so maybe friendship is not always easy or fun, but it's still really, really good for you. And the best thing about friends is it actually doesn't taste like spinach. It's like, you get the benefits of spinach, but it tastes like chocolate cake. If you get friendship right, it's it's the healthiest thing in the world.
Interviewer: How do I know if someone's a friend?
Interviewee: I have that conversation with them because I know a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, and you have deal friends, you know, you have a lot of deal friends, you know, podcast friends, podcast friends, yeah, uh, work friends, you know, and you and we have and not, look, I'm not talking about there's all kinds of friends. There's friends that you just like hanging out with, they're just fun. But you're not going to go to them with your problems or to sort out, you know, issues. You're not, you just not, work or personal, they're just fun, right? There's nothing wrong with that. Um, but I think, you know, I'm certainly guilty of spending time with people that, you know, they fill a space and they make me feel not lonely, but at the end of the day, I don't feel smarter, inspired, brighter, lighter when they, when I say goodbye. I'm just like, all right, bye, that was fun. And I kind of want to spend more time with people who lift me, teach me, support me, love me, give me a give me a chance to serve. They open up to me and let me serve as well. You know, I struggle to make friends. And I think, do you know why? I think I'm lazy with it. Lazy with friendships. So I will meet someone, I'll have a great connection with them. And then my follow-up, like, I don't really know what to do next. So I'll meet your follow-up is just crap. Oh, fuck. You know, this is what I mean. Like, my, I'll meet someone, I'll text you and maybe I'll get a response, vice versa. I think you left me on red. But you're the same. Are you the same? Or is it just with me? It's just with you. But but I think my follow-up game is like crap. I'll meet someone, I'll go, oh my god, I'll see, I'll see the potential for a friendship. And then I won't know what I have. Or maybe I'm just being lazy. I'm trying to, I want to be honest. Maybe I just don't prioritize it. I think also when you start having fame and money and you're used to being the boss, you get away with stuff. So you show up late, everybody's like, pissed off and angry. And then you show up and they're like, and you're like, sorry. Like, no, no, no, don't worry, don't worry, right? Like, you get away with stuff in the world, right? And so I think what that does is, I see this with celebrities all the time, right? Because everybody yeses them to death and they get away with it. And nobody ever holds them accountable. At some point, they just get lazier and lazier and lazier because they can. Yeah, you know, yeah. And so you don't have to put in the effort because other people put in the effort. Yeah. And nobody be like, like somebody who's a nobody won't say to them, yo, asshole, not respectful. Oh, you think my schedule doesn't matter? I've been waiting here for three hours. Oh, just because you're a celebrity, you think you can just keep me waiting? Not cool. Nobody says that to them. And somebody should say that to them. But they should say to themselves. They should say to themselves. That would be ideal. And some of them have the self-awareness to know they're getting away with it. That's even worse because then they're doing it on purpose. At least blindness, I think. You know, they can at least hide behind ignorance. But, uh, yeah, I mean, friendship takes effort. Yeah.
Interviewer: We have a closing tradition which I nearly forgot. I do know the tradition, which is the last guest leaves a question for the next guest. Yes. What's my question?
Interviewee: What are you doing in your life to mentor someone coming up behind you? And then, who is a person that you'd like to mentor, teach or coach that needs your voice the most?
Interviewer: My team asked you to bring something that meant a lot to you and you brought me this and I don't know what's in this box. Oh, medallions? Medals? Those are military challenge coins. Um, I brought the one, the round one, just to show you what the traditional ones look like. Um, this is the one I care about. I mean, I care about them both, but this is the one I brought. So these are, only generals or commanders will give these out. They're hard to get. You get them when you do something of service. It's it's less formal than a medal. They can give it out to them however they want. And it's their way of saying thank you. And the challenge coins that I've been given, I'm very, very proud of because I feel like I earned them. And the thing that I love is when they give them to you, they don't just hand it to you, they put it in their hand like this and they shake your hand, go on. And that's how they give them to you. And they say, thank you, Simon, so much for coming here and helping us out. And that's how they give me the coin. The reason this one means a lot to me is because I did some work with the, with Air Force Top Gun. It's called the Weapon School, but it's Air Force Top Gun. And this is their coin and this is their patch. That's. And I did some work with them to help them get to the core of their why, what their true value was, just to make sure that their culture stays clear and good for a long time. And we came up with three words, three actions that everybody who goes through Air Force Top Gun is required to do, which is build, teach, lead. Which is the idea that you build a skill set, you teach that skill set to other people, and then you build leaders and you lead, right? This whole idea that you have, you have a responsibility to build, to teach, and to lead. Accumulate and give and serve. And the thing that is so powerful is the commandant of the Weapon School after we did the work, he took those words and he put them on the coin. Oh, really? And they exist on the coin and they have been on there for years since. And I am so proud to have given something that has longevity, that is literally on the coin. Build, teach, lead. Yeah. That is such a beautiful mantra for life. Yeah. And they're wonderful people who go there. And, uh, what an honor that work that I did ended up on a coin. And so they gave me the coin out of gratitude for the work that I did and it had my words on it. So it's not my words, it's their words. I just helped distill them. It's who they are when they're at their natural best. I just helped them put it and codify it.
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