AI-generated interview qa format analysis of the interview
Michelle Obama joins Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy to discuss navigating public scrutiny, embracing authenticity, challenging societal norms for women, and the importance of self-worth and female friendships.
Published January 21, 2026
Upload your interview recording and get the same detailed AI analysis.
Upload Your InterviewThis interview qa format was automatically generated by AI from the interview transcription. The analysis provides structured insights and key information extracted from the conversation.
Michelle Obama
Complete analysis processed by AI from the interview transcription
Interviewer: Welcome to Call Her Daddy. Hey, Alex, look at here. Call Her Daddy, I'm here. You don't even know.
Interviewer: I'm doing good. I mean, I'm personally good, um, individually good, feeling whole. But, you know, the world feels a little nutty. And so there's, you know, that piece of it seeps in in ways, but I'm...
Interviewer: This is a Meredith Coop original. And as we were thinking about promotions for the tour, there is a picture that a lot of people have been showing of me at Princeton. And Meredith Coop had the idea of updating this. This is the week, updated version. It's on one of the first pages, I remember, when one of the first ones. And when she brought it to me, I was like, "You are so..." Look at this. I mean, isn't it? So, it's a redo. It's the next version.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So we were...
Interviewer: I love skiing, but I'm kind of putting up my ski boots.
Interviewer: I just feel like I am just one fall away. You know, because I am like a crazy skier. Like, I can't ski a little bit. I'm like, skiing all day.
Interviewer: I go, well, I go black. I don't go double black. I like blacks and blues.
Interviewer: No. No. Not yet. But when I ski, there's still, I'm still the former First Lady with security. So I have sort of a ski motorcade.
Interviewer: No, because the agents are, they're blending in. You know, some are snowboarders and some are. But they're usually in the front and the back, right? So that no errant person just clobbers me. You know? So I don't really know what goes on behind me when I'm skiing. I just know we make it down. And I usually, I ski with an instructor. I ski in Aspen. Vance is my ski husband, and I miss him dearly. Vance, I've skied with Vance for 10 years. And I hope he hears this. I love him. I miss him. I haven't skied in two years. But we ski, we made it a mother-daughter trip. Um, all every President's Day weekend for the last 10 years. There are a bunch of mothers and daughters. We've all raised our kids together. And we take the long weekend, go to Aspen, and ski. So yeah. But you're... you're done? I just, I'm just worried that, you know, like, I usually have one fall. You don't need an injury. You don't need to be in a boot and then I can't do anything else. You know? And we need you to do other things. Yeah. Anyway, so...
Interviewer: Feeling, feeling it. And then you're just like, "Yeah, no. Let's do that black run." Let's do...
Interviewer: After lunch. You just ate a lot. I always have one run too many. It is the one run where I say, "I am done after this run." And then right in the middle of the end of the run, like I'm not stopping. Like that foot's not...
Interviewer: I'm getting lazy. And then the form goes, form goes. And then, and then when I fall, you know, the looks on everyone's faces. It's like everybody has a heart attack.
Interviewer: And do they feel responsible? And it's sometimes you want to fall and like, have no one see you. Don't have no... Everybody's there. Ski patrol, doctors, you know, men with guns. It's like, "Oh my God, I'm good."
Interviewer: Okay.
Interviewer: I knit. I haven't been knitting lately because I've been reading a lot. And reading and prep for our podcast. I'm reading people's books. So. And I still like books, so I don't do audio. And you, if you're holding a book, you can't knit. So I'm really, really reading a lot right now. So I haven't knitted as much, but it's still there. It's in me.
Interviewer: What Barack Obama wants to get reports on. So you said, "What you like, it's her show. I don't know." Right? So...
Interviewer: But then there's the other side of this show, yeah. Which is option two, which is hard, but important conversations that are relevant to young women and girls all around the world. And so as juicy as option one would be, or not, or not actually, it could have been like, "That's that." I'm like, "Oh."
Interviewer: Um, I just thought about it. I'm like, you sitting here today as one of the most influential and powerful women in the world. It would be too great of an opportunity not to have you impart your wisdom on the next generation who is watching and listening today. So we're going with option two. [00:03:56]
Interviewer: So, I think, unless you want to go option one?
Interviewer: I think with that setup, yeah. You're right. Yeah. Let's, let's go with option two. And to anyone watching, you can all take a deep breath. This is not going to be about politics today. This is going to be about women. Yeah. Which I love talking about here on Call Her Daddy. So, Michelle, are you ready?
Interviewer: Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile. Okay, Daddy Gang, I am starting to think a night in may actually be the new nightlife. Where am I in my life right now? Okay, I have been working so much lately that all I want to do at the end of a long day is hang out on my couch. There is just nothing better than getting into comfy clothes, pulling out some of my favorite snacks, curling up with Henry and Bruce and Matt. You can join too, Matt. And doing absolutely nothing. And on those nights in, T-Mobile has me covered with value that keeps on stacking up the more I use it, like streaming benefits and snack perks that truly deliver. The math is mathing with so many perks and benefits. T-Mobile is basically making staying in a lifestyle. So you know what? I love you even more now, T-Mobile. Okay, my go-to recently has been popping on a reality TV show, ordering a whole pizza, and hitting next episode all night long with the side of ranch. Okay? And if you have T-Mobile like I do, you won't believe how good staying in can be. Check it out at T-Mobile.com/magenta status. Disclaimer: Streaming benefits included while you maintain a qualifying line in good standing. [00:05:08]
Interviewer: Thank you. Thanks so much.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. I think it became, um, sort of the shock, shock of the reality of that. Um, I, I, I felt in, the first year of campaigning, you know, when Barack announced, I was hesitant. But once I was on board, I was on board. And I knew that I needed to be out there campaigning and introducing the world not just to him, but to us as the first potential Black president and Black family. We understood that there might be hesitations, misconceptions, people who, you know, weren't exposed to a broad diversity of people. And so we knew that it was important for both of us to be out there telling our story, helping people understand our values, what we cared about, how we were raised, who our parents were. To me, all of those stories are what connect us. So that's what I'm out there doing, you know. Um, I'm in Iowa. You know, it starts out that I'm in people's backyards and, you know, in church basements. I mean, it starts out small because who are the Obamas? I mean, who are these two? Right? So it wasn't like people were climbing the walls. I mean, Hillary Clinton was the favorite in Iowa. Barack was a distant fourth. But we worked hard at the grassroots and understood that we'd have to meet people in their homes and in their communities. And so I was kind of like not even a blip on the screen. So I was out there freely talking. And I never had a written speech. Um, I just would usually talk from my heart and talk about us. And so slowly things grew and grew. And I wasn't in a backyard anymore, but I was in a school auditorium. And it wasn't 10 people, it was 5,000 people. Um, and I think everyone was kind of shocked by how I was connecting in that way. Um, but I always felt like, this is, this is who we are as Americans, you know? I mean, one of the best experiences I had in my life was leaving the South Side of Chicago and going into rural America and understanding that we're the same people. You know? It's like the food we eat, the things we care about, the way my dad loved his family, the pride he had in his family, you know, the working-class nature, his work ethic. People would do that. They just shake their heads and nod. And what might have been, "I'm not sure about you," became, "I know you." Right? And that was the experience I was having. But as my popularity rose, I was being covered more, right? And so the press enters the scene. And there are now reports, right? And the first thing, after all this great conversation and connection, the top of the article would be, "She was wearing..." you know? Um, not my education, not my, you know, not, not my professional career. But it started with appearance. And it got worse as we got better. So I understood it as campaign tactics, right? I could separate it out and go, "Well, this, yeah, this is politics." Right? It's like, what better way to beat a moving engine is to try and slow it down. And so with women, what do we do with women? We start sort of talking about their strength. And their, so then I became, I was angry. Not passionate. I was a misogynist. I wasn't joking about my husband and humanizing him, right? Um, I wasn't athletic. I was scary, scarily muscular, right? Um, so it, it was, it was a rolling thing. And I attributed it totally to politics. And I didn't write it off to what people really thought. Because I had months and months of understanding that the people in those auditoriums and in those school buildings and at those speeches, they, they understood who I was. Did that make sense? [00:08:07]
Interviewer: Right. They weren't describing him physically. And he was out there more than I was. So I was like, "Okay, well, this is where it comes from." It's like, "Wow, whoever is doing this, when it comes to how we put women in their place." It's like, "Okay, you, there wasn't comment about the substance that I was saying. It was like, 'Why did she wear this?' And was that appropriate? And what does this mean?'" And it's all about how we look. And the more you pay attention to that, you see it not just happen to me, but even having other female candidates, other wives, other, you know, other celebrities, other people in the public eye. Um, so I, I tried not to take it personally and understand that this was a game. And I definitely didn't want to assume that this is what America thought. Like being able to separate out what is politics and media and where people's hearts are. And I think sometimes we still, we struggle because the game is still happening. You know, we're still dividing each other up. When my truth was that no one ever in my face, in any community, was unwelcoming or rigid or closed-minded, right? Not in person. Right? It was all about what was being fed. So I didn't want that to, I didn't want that to color my heart towards this country. Even... [00:09:17]
Interviewer: That's, that's a good question. Um, I think again, on the campaign trail and as, in those first months of, of, of being in office, you know, you just, you see what's written. And you see the, you know, you look up. And there was a whole website, Mrs. O, that you know, focused on. And this is all, it's, this was complimentary. It was exciting. I could see the fun of it, right? I get it, right? Um, but I kind of thought that I, I understood that fashion and appearance for women is so powerful. That if I spent too much time talking about it, maybe nobody would hear anything else I'd have to say. And I, I came in wanting to say so much and do so much substantively. I knew what I wanted to do going in. And it was interesting, I'd always get the question leading up to the campaign, "Well, you know, how, how did, what do you want to accomplish as First Lady?" And my first answer was, "First of all, I want to make sure my kids are whole. So me being a good mother. This me and Barack being good parents in this." Like, it didn't mean that we weren't going to work hard. But if you want to know what my priority was, like a lot of parents, is making sure that my kids weren't destroyed by this thing we're doing, that they ended up whole. And I thought by saying that, that that wasn't controversial. It was just like, "Like, we have kids and they've got to go to school. They have security." And so I'm gonna have to focus on that, just like all of us as women, mothers do. We're multitasking. And we're doing it all the time. And I was doing it before I landed there. But it was always interesting. And people would be like, "Well, how do you know what to do in this role?" And to me, it was clear that, "Oh my God, you, you don't know anything about what I did before I came here." Like, you don't... like, you know? And you don't want to. I was like, "Well, I went to Princeton and Harvard. I mean, I practiced law. I was an assistant to the mayor in Chicago. I ran a nonprofit, a 501(c)(3), built a board, doing this. I was a vice president for community relations at the University of Chicago Hospitals. I was a dean of students." I was like, "Oh, you guys, I, all of that just disappeared in the course of this whole election." And you now see me as just Barack Obama's wife. So that made me say, "What? That quickly, my shoes become the most important thing about me." Right? And again, not unique to me. It can happen to the best of us. So I shied away from fashion, leading the conversation. But I knew I couldn't, I didn't completely control it. So let's lean in. Let's lean in with what we do. Let's make sure that we have a plan and a strategy in place for how fashion, just like everything we did in the White House, would have meaning and impact. [00:12:04]
Interviewer: You know, look, life is full of compromises, just period. Right? I mean, some of what I always say is that you've got to pick and choose your battles. We all do. Um, and the, the, the personal question becomes, where are you in life? Right? If you're a young woman that needs a job to pay off her loans and to, and it's your first job and you're, you know, you have less leverage than I do as the former First Lady to wear what you want and have this empowerment and say what you want to do. Like, my advice to young girls is, first of all, make sure you can pay your rent. Um, you know? And don't make decisions so rashly when you don't have the leverage to keep yourself safe, right? But in the midst of that, you, you don't want to compromise yourself so much that you lose yourself. And you're not safe, right? So you may wear the dress because it's professional and gives you an edge. But then you want to be very careful of who this person is that you're now working for, you know? And whether, so now you have to be smart. It's, it has less to do with what you're wearing, but who is that person? And do you trust him? And can you trust him? Um, you, you know, women don't have to dress a certain way to lead on somebody who has misogynistic... You know, a lot of times we blame ourselves and say, "Well, if I, you know, look, you leaned in because you wore that dress and you, you know..." Um, but, but it is a tricky balance because, you know, if you're in a professional setting and wearing a dress or a certain, if, if that is the standard, then you are a little, you know, you do have to be thoughtful. So we have to think a lot more. I mean, it's just exhausting. This is also what I'm saying in the book, right? I mean, to, to strike that balance and to be thoughtful about what messages we're sending, giving, receiving. Men don't do that. My husband wasn't doing that. Same suit, put on blue suit, black, white shirt, different tie. You know? I mean, we're on a trip where there's 8,000 things happening in one day. You know, we're on a safari, and then we're at a meeting, and then, you know, even the way they structure the day, it's like, "This is a man's schedule." You know? And all he has to do is take off his tie, unbutton the top, top, take his jacket off. Now he's casual. Now he can talk to kids. Now he's at a meeting at the UN. Throws that jacket back on. And I'm following around. And it's like, I get heels and flats, and cobblestones, and sweaters, and blazers, and tops, and skirts that are too short. And now you can't stoop. That's me. But that's all of us, right? We, we, so there's so many, there's so much work that I think we, we do it so easily as women. It, it is just a part of waking up. And it is a lot of work. And I'm, I want us all to start owning that. It is a lot of work. And that it does take strategy. Because, you know, and for men to pretend like it doesn't. That, that this isn't part of the game. You know? Like, and if we don't name it, you know, if we keep trying to pretend like, "No, I just woke up like this." You know? Like, I want you to know how much work. I want my, I want my husband. I made sure he understood. Traveling with you. And you traveling. Different. Different burden. Dude. [00:15:34]
Interviewer: It takes people to read the book, right? And this is what politics are, right? I mean, you know, I've been in the political world. I am affiliated. I understand it. You know, it's like, you don't know me, right? So you see the book. Anybody who's known me, my career, my life, the other books, ever, which is why this book is the third book, not the first book, because I was like, "Yeah, talking about fashion." You know, you know, you gotta lay a foundation for it. You gotta ease them in. Gotta ease them in. But it's also, like, if you know me, you know I'm just not that person. I'm not the person that's just going to talk about some dresses, right? No, you're not. Michelle. It's gotta have a meaning behind it. So what I would just say to people is, pick it up and read it first. That's all. As opposed to reading a review about it, or reading a review of somebody who would never like me, who has already has a predisposed opinion, which exists in this country. This is, this is really a book about, um, self-determination. Who we are as women. Um, how it's about the team of people that help us. And it's an industry, and a business, and it's a billion-dollar business. And what stylists and makeup artists do is not just this fun little thing. You know, that many of us don't have the time, the luxury to do. But this expectation is still there. So we, if we don't talk about, if we don't have to talk about fashion, then let's make it irrelevant. Then why are there dress codes? And why are people commenting about people's hair? Why, why, why are we doing any of it? You know, it, it puts us in a trap, in a way. But it can also be fun. [00:17:05]
Interviewer: Yeah. Because, sadly, I hate to say it, we expect it from men. And so it hurts that much more when it is another woman doing it to another woman.
Interviewer: I mean, it's, you know, surprisingly, yeah, it would hurt more, um, coming from a woman. Because it's like, "Wow, you know, you know, you know what we're going through." But here's what helps me. And it doesn't, you know, it, it takes time, maturity, to kind of come to peace with this. Um, but in order to keep myself sane in the midst of this, on all levels, I just try to wonder what's going on in the mind of the person who can go there, right? And when I think about women attacking women, it, it is always rooted in the insecurity and lack of self, it seems, that it is rampant in our culture. Like, we're set up to feel badly about ourselves, right? And then to turn against ourselves, and then to turn on each other. Um, it's a doggy-dog world out there. Um, so I try to humanize my victimizer and say, "Something happened to you. Something is, you know, something is tearing away. And it doesn't have, and it doesn't have to do with me." Right? "I am, I might have been the closest, easiest target for you at the time." Um, but let me so that I can stay sane and wake up and show up well with people. Because as First Lady, that's ultimately my job. I mean, I couldn't let something break me to the point where I got so cynical and despondent about the whole of this country. Like, to me, it's like, it was, it's my job to believe in America. To believe in our utter, deep goodness. Because that is true. That is the, you know. And when people go astray, it's because of something that happened to them, a brokenness. And that helps me right-size my feelings. [00:19:55]
Interviewer: She's not a mean girl.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. One of the reasons why I focus so much of my energy in the White House, in my post-White House years, on just working on issues of women and girls and their empowerment and self-esteem. Um, you know, we, we're not focused on that strategically or politically. When we, you know, we haven't had conversations in a long time, just about education and the education system, or what, what kind of after-school opportunities are there for kids? I mean, you know, we, as a society, aren't talking about a lot these days about how we are nurturing and protecting our kids. Um, so now everybody is taking it on individually, right? So, what do I do with my girls? I'm trying to make sure that they feel seen in their household, because they, you know? And I'm trying to sign them up for activities that make them feel strong and to build confidence. And, you know, I'm doing that for myself. And I'm staying healthy. And, you know, but how do you deal with the problem systemically? Yeah. That's where government and taxpayers and people caring about one another and caring about our kids. It happens because we give wonderful places for kids, girls to land. You know? Um, I think, you know, kids need to, young girls need to be in groups, you know, Girl Scout groups and opportunities. They need to be able to play sports. And they need to be able to, they need to have access to things that get them out of their loneliness and off of their phone. And get their brains and bodies working, right? So, so it's a, I think it's just... [00:21:52]
Interviewer: Well, some of it is like, how you pick and choose, right? So in the light, when I talked about the kitchen table, it's like, you've got to be really smart and selective about who you let in, who you let stay in, um, and who, who you let out. Um, um, you know, who, who is ready to follow the path that you want to go on, right? And that, that's practice, right? Uh, one of the things that I say to my girls and young girls, it's like, "Don't be afraid to make friends. You know, be open. Stay open." Um, and I always wanted my girls, no matter what they were going through, it's like, "Try on new people." And, and let them in because you're strong enough to deal with somebody who might disappoint you. Because sometimes people disappoint you. And if they disappoint you in a way that's dangerous, let them out quickly. You know? Slow ghost. Get them. Get a move on. Trust your gut. And the more you practice it, the more you, you, you recognize it quicker, you know? And it's so for me, I, I, I think I choose well, first of all. Um, and so it starts there. And again, that takes practice. You learn that over time. You learn yourself. Um, and once my friends are in, in my journey, we're all going together, you know? I mean, it's just, it's never just my journey. It's like, "You're coming. You know, let's do this." You know, I had to do that really proactively as First Lady because we lived in this bubble. And if I wasn't proactive about maintaining my relationships with my friends, everybody could have easily slipped away. You didn't have my phone number. You can't walk up to my door and just, "Girl, what you up to?" It's like, "Nope. You got to go through eight rounds of security." You know? Hand in your social security card. You gotta, you know, you get a whole to-do. You know, it's like, "Hey, you're a high-maintenance friend, Michelle." I would understand. It's like, "You know what? I give up." So... [00:24:11]
Interviewer: You know, it's a good point. So that's why I said even making friends as First Lady, I didn't like, write that off. I was like, "I'm gonna have to really extend myself." For a new mother to be like, "Okay, Sasha's coming over for a sleepover. We're gonna need to know your social security number. We're gonna, there's gonna be a sweep of your home. They're gonna find out. They're gonna want to know about whether you have guns in the house or drugs. They won't take them from you, but they need to know." There will be men standing up. So what time do you want her to come by? Okay. They're like, "I don't know anymore." So you, you, you know, that kind of helps you. It's like, "Okay, you ready? You, you ready? You ready? Let's go." Um, so I just, for me, I, I just, I take my friends with me as much as possible. So you're coming with me. We're doing, you know, we're doing boot camps once a quarter. We're going on trips. We're planning the mother-daughter ski trip. We're. And a lot of times I would take the lead because, you know, you can't schedule me. You know? No. So realizing those limitations. And I think when you're all kind of, even if people aren't rising or doing the same thing, I found that if my friends feel like I see them, and I, I'm like, "I want you on my journey. And we're all gonna enjoy this together." It's not me and you. I found that that's the way I've kept this sort of, "Am I the friend to be jealous of?" It's like, "We're all, we're all going up this mountain together." I mean, I think that my audience needs to hear that, because I think it's very present right now in a lot of people's lives. We've got a lot of, you know, 18 to 30, 40-year-olds listening. And it's like, you're leaving college. Did you get the job? Who's moving? Who's got the boyfriend? Who's got the thing? And it's, it's, there's so much clouded competition because you think, "Oh god, she got married first, and I haven't yet." Or, "She had the kid, and I didn't yet." [00:25:44]
Interviewer: Well, because this is what we're doing, is we're checking boxes, right? And social media, kind of, you know, it exacerbates that because now you know what everybody is doing. And everybody's only posting the good things that they're doing. The thing that I want the listeners to know, young women, is that the value of cultivating friendships is important. It's as important as the job title and the salary, or the dude you're trying to, you know, catch, or the, the, the length of your veil on your wedding dress. Like, that all that stuff comes and goes. I don't even remember. I remember my wedding. You know, I have the pictures. It was a wonderful day. But my friendships, those relationships are important. And I just want, you know, in the advent of technology and social media, it's almost like we're telling people, "You're okay by yourself. All you need is your phone, some apps, and success." And what I'm saying is, no, you need friends. And you have to work on that. That means you have to be a good friend. That means you have to put down your stuff and prioritize your friendships if you want to have them. [00:26:37]
Interviewer: Oh, I mean, I'm generationally kind of, uh, that's it's, it's the experience that young women, girls are, you know, having now. It is foreign to me. You know, I didn't, with my, I'm good. I'm gonna be 62. I'm an old lady. I'm like my grandmother. Right? That's how I'm... My grandmother was old. She was my age. Stop, Michelle. No. But with, as fast as things have changed, we are in the midst of one of the, a major, uh, industrial revolution. It was, it's like the creation of electricity, right? The TV. Like, this is new, right? And I'm of the old guard, right? So I don't, I don't have the habit. I'm not hooked on it. Like I'm still picking up a book. I'm still calling a friend, right? I don't even know why you would want to be lonely. Like, "Why are you alone?" It's like, "Don't do that." You know? Sounds so good when you say it. Go to the coffee shop. You know, don't order the thing. Just get out, right? Go to the gym. You know, just because you can be by yourself, don't, don't do it. So, um, so that, it is foreign to me, the, the pressure that you guys feel. Um, but I get it. I, I get it. Um, what I want to tell people, young women, is get off the phone. I really do. It's like, it's a habit. It's not a need. And I'm not saying get rid of it. I'm just saying, you've got to get off of the phone and start investing in your, in real life stuff and experience. [00:28:32]
Interviewer: Yes. Think about this. It's intended to be, right? Like...
Interviewer: No, no generation prior to this, yeah, had four-year-olds being addicted to something. Five-year-olds, six-year-olds, ten-year-olds. We have addiction right now that we, we cannot stop. I am hoping, Alex, that the, the learning curve is going to be quick, right? Because we didn't know, right? It's, this is so new. You know? Um, and now we're starting to get the statistics in on depression. This is real. It, it's, the, the dip into and the rise in depression is directly connected and linked to the creation and rise of social media. And I'm hoping that the society, parents will start understanding that this isn't just a free-for-all thing. There are great things about it, but there are a lot of problems with it. So we have to stop. We, we have to start regulating. [00:29:14]
Interviewer: And that's some of the experts have said it. Jonathan Haidt, Scott Galloway, a lot of people who've written books about it have said that it would be a lot better if parents and communities made these decisions together, right? So that you, you know. But we're still a long way from that. We're still figuring that out. In the meantime, I don't know that I have a, my message is the old-school message of, "No one is perfect." That stuff isn't real. It's not real at all. It is just not real at all. And so why I write this book and try to talk openly is that if people are listening to me, and I'm saying that, "Look, this face, it takes work to do." And I'm not trying to have a full face every day. You know, I wear makeup when I'm gonna be on TV, right? That no one is living these great lives. It's just, I know that because I live a really great life. And it's not always perfect. Um, it's, it's, it's a message that I don't know lands because it's rooted in what I know is the truth. And all I can say is, how do I know? Because I know. Um, and so don't, don't feed into it. Don't feed into it because. And I, and I can also say, I know a lot of these people that you're looking at. I know a lot of these celebrities. [00:30:42]
Interviewer: And I think something that you, um, you know, talking about, even just like, there needs to be actual change. And we need to organizationally come together. It is similar to what we're talking about with women and change. Right? And I think especially with social media, the amplification of aging and the conversation about aging around women. There are billion-dollar brands that are pushing anti-aging. Aka saying, as a woman gets older, it is a bad thing to age. Meanwhile, it is a privilege to age. But we have been warped to believe, "Put this cream on," or "Inject this thing into your face, and then you will be deemed more worthy to society." In your book, you talk about aging and embracing new seasons of life, rather than freaking out over, you know, a gray hair or a wrinkle. But how do we, as a society, fight this demonization of aging women? [00:31:18]
Interviewer: Well, I always say that we just, you know, men get older and wiser and esteemed, right? Um, women, we just get old, right? Yeah. It's crazy. Um, but the truth is that like, my 60s are the best time of my life. That's all. It's, it's the canary in the coal mine. I'm just telling you, ladies, girls, like, it gets better and better and better. You know? Um, yeah, the youth and your skinny waist when you're 20, yeah. But you have no money. You don't know what to do with it. I mean, it's like, man, it's, and it's it's hard, you know, you're confused all your 20s and 30s. And I'm just telling people, you're right, yes, it's confusing and it feels painful, but it's, it gets better. And so for me, I'm also, you know, what? We are, what we don't do is celebrate the wisdom of older women. Women, right? I mean, there's so much that older women know for sure. Like, it's like, "We were there. I got the answer. I can really, like, I know I did it right." I'm not saying I know because I'm smarter. I just tried all that. I failed. That doesn't, you know, you can literally go, "That's not gonna work for you." Doesn't mean you're not gonna try it. But when it doesn't, like, I can tell you, don't feel badly that you failed because it wasn't ever gonna work. And there was only one way to learn that is that you did it. And it's okay that you did. Like, there's so much we have to offer. But what do we do? We instead of, you know, podcasts and blogs and social media being run by really wise women who actually have facts, right? It's a bunch of kids who are like, "You don't know. You don't know." I mean, like, I love a parenting blog for sure, you know, when it comes to the best bottle and the new contraptions, because it, that stuff is better. Yes. Like, I'm like, "Wow, I wish I had that stroller that you can just pop and close." But, like, who do I want to listen to on, like, childhood behavioral stuff? I want to talk to a woman, a parent. Not just woman. I want to see what your adult children look like. I just want to meet facts before I figure out whether I'm gonna follow your theory. Because when you're young, you don't know. You're just living it. You're just working. You're testing it. And so I think the social, you know, the social connection of mother, young mothers, or young parents struggling, that's a cool thing. But guess who has some real wisdom around, like, "I tried this and it failed." Like, really? But where are those bloggers? Where those conversations happening? And where are young women just coming to ask to say, "Well, let me, you know, sit down with my moms and my aunts?" [00:33:40]
Interviewer: Yeah. It gives them integrity. Yeah. We're irrelevant. And so there's this push and pull that I think at some point, you're right, women have to look inward and start to say, "Why am I not tapping into this older generation who is looking down being like, the hands out, we got you." And I think those are great conversations for young women to have with one another, right? Um, because I think, I haven't met an older woman that isn't like, "Any like, you want to know? You're asking? Yes. Sit down. Let's talk. I don't want you to fail. I want you to be better than me." Because now I really am not competing. Like all that stuff that was going on, we learned it didn't help. It didn't. It just messed up a lot of stuff. So now, you know, we can really look at that. Generate, at least, I know I'm in that place. No, it's a great point. Like, it's the favorite thing I have to do, which is impart some something that I learned to somebody younger. [00:34:49]
Interviewer: Wow. Um, you know, your 20s and 30s are tough times, right? Because I always, I've, I've learned, or I felt that, women were less, or at least I was less likely to claim what I knew. Because I was always, there was always, "Maybe I don't know." And, "Well, and I don't want to, I don't want to sound too pompous." Or, "Let me not cut you off." You know, we're, we're, we're more socialized to, "Don't step on toes," because then you're bossy. You know, there's also a little smackdown of it. You know, it's like, "Well, if you're, if you're a little too aggressive, now you're aggressive." You, you're not, so sometimes those labels happen and we get them. I mean, my, my own mother, I was, she was like, "You're bossy." I'm the bossy one. You know, it's like, "I felt like the bossy one my whole life." And I know a lot of outspoken young girls who were labeled as the bossy ones in their family, when they were probably the ones that like, had good instincts and were organized and had opinions. And, you know, so that stuff is actually... [00:36:02]
Interviewer: Yeah. I, what I've come to learn is that this, can you have it all? Yes. Not at the same time. And I think that we beat ourselves up because here's what I, there are a lot, a lot of women who are listening, a lot of women, period, who I will call 120 percenters. That means that just showing up means we're not just showing up, we're excelling. Because we've always had to do that to get a seat at the table. We have to be smarter and brighter. And we kind of do. Because if you slip up, you know, you don't necessarily get a second chance or the benefit of the doubt. Or so we've been trained to do that. So now we're operating like that and trying to do it with everything that we're doing. And 120% plus 120% plus 120% adds up to crazy and a mental breakdown. Exactly. Um, so one of the things I had to learn is that, like, a lot of times my 50% is good enough. But I have to first be okay with it. So when it came to raising my kids and keeping my job, when I felt the push of, "I don't know if I'm like, am I there for my kids like I want to?" Like, I had to stop breastfeeding. And I had to do this. And I had to go back. Um, but I like having the salary and begin to pay off our student debt. And why walk away from that? Um, what I realized was like, "Okay, I, I can't be driving hard at my job at this time. My husband is in politics. He has three jobs. Somebody's gotta take it down a notch." So I've learned to stay in the car, keep your foot on the gas, but just don't floor it all the time on all things. You don't, that doesn't mean you have to break that in me. Have to pull the car over and get out. It just means that there will be aspects of parts of those yourself that you can't go 120%. And then that means that we as women have to accept a little bit less from ourselves than we're used to. And that, that takes, you have to just get used to that. And it's all in here, right? It's, it's all the internal message. Like, if you have a job, maybe you aren't going to be able to make homemade baby food. And guess what? Like, I loved the jar food. Like, there was nothing better than that dinner. I was like, "Whoa, I." When they started needing real, real food, I was like, "Yeah, curses. I gotta cook." But that stage, you know, sweet potatoes. I loved it. And I'd just go to the grocery store. I'd be like, "Look at Mom. Figure you're gonna have a little beef here, a little carrot in a jar." You know, I mean, I love it. I love it. It's so real, though. So you have to be kind of okay with, that's not gonna kill them. Or maybe you, you can't breastfeed for a year because you can't, you don't like it. Your body isn't able to. You had to go back to work. Baby's gonna be fine. You know? I mean, our parents didn't even breastfeed. I mean, there was a generation of women that were told, "Similac, here you go." I am a formula baby. 5'11". Brains working just fine. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. You know? So, you know, we have to take some pressure off of ourselves. It's like, why are we trying to bounce back? What's the... You're going to have a baby. Your whole body is twisted up. And then you want to like, be back at the gym doing solid core. At the... Why? Why are we doing this to ourselves? And I think the comparison... [00:39:27]
Interviewer: ...saying you're popping the jar open, and you put it on the plate. You're taking a picture of the plate. You're like, "That's like what I did." And you know, it's just like, "Let's not do that to each other." Let's be more honest about the struggle. I'm sure I try to do that. You know? Um, and I am constantly telling young mothers like, "You, it's coming, right? You don't have to get off your career track." And I don't even recommend it. Because kids grow up fast. And then they're gone. Like, you've sacrificed everything. And, you know, when they leave, they leave. They close the door and act like you never sacrificed. They're like, "I remember you. I don't need you anymore." Right? So what I'm like, "You better have saved something for yourself." So that when that period comes and they're ready to move on and you're also not holding on longer because now, "What do I'm gonna do?" "I devoted everything to you." And I need to now. I've got to fill my time. So I always, I encourage people to hang in there and keep something for yourself throughout this process. But that means you don't, you're maybe you're not going to be VP in five years. Like, if you have in your mind that there's a track and there's only one way to do it, that's what trips us up a lot of times. Like, "I'm going to be partner by the time I'm 28." Hey, look, if you live until you're 80, 90, there's so much time. There's so much. And I tell people, look, I had to get off the track and take pay cuts and come back, sacrifice because my husband was president. You know? Yeah. That was kind of a, you know. So, but in the midst of that, I still managed to be a lawyer, run a nonprofit, I can run down the list, be an author, you know, I've raised really sane kids who, you know, aren't perfect, but I, they're really, really good. So there is time. But we have to be, we have to give ourselves a lot more grace in the process. That would, that's what I've learned. And giving myself grace. It's like, "Yeah, I'm not, I'm not getting it all." Right? And, and then we, as women, have to be, we have to support each other. We just really have to stop being a part of the fantasy. You know? It, it's, it's not serving us. It's not true. You know? And it's okay to not be happy sometimes. Like, that's also a thing. You, you know? Like, not being perfectly satisfied and in the exact place that you want every part of your life. Is that, like, that's what life is. Yeah. That's what life is. [00:41:44]
Interviewer: I think it starts with the subliminal messages that we send our our girls. Um, and I'm really, I have two beautiful daughters. And, you know, you find yourself slipping up and going, "Are you dating anyone?" You know? It's like, "Let me not make that the first question or the second question or a question at all." Like, "Let me, you know?" Um, because I hear it being asked. You run out of stuff to say to a young girl. It's like, "You're dating anyone?" Um, you know? It's like, I, I, I just, in our girl group, I'm, when it comes up and we do that, I try to talk to our, my mom friends about it. And what, what that's doing? What are our own insecurities as mothers? Like, that we're like, "Well, you seem happy and you're on a track, but do you have a boyfriend?" Like, like, you know? So bad. It's just a, it's a, when you break it down like that, it's like, those are the little things that no matter what, and then despite what your parents say, it's just the social pressure. You see everybody getting married. You so I think we have to be mindful of the, the way we craft questions to our, not just our daughters, but our sons. How we talk about what happiness is. And we have to work hard to separate our fears and insecurities as parents. We have to separate that from our kids. Right? Because we're still carrying these old images. We are still programmed. We are still of a generation where that's what women did. You went to, we did go to college. We were different. There was the expectation that you went to college. We all got our degrees. But everybody started getting their "Mrs." as they called it, out of college. And that was also a part of it. And you'd have a career, but you do
Upload your interview recording and get the same detailed AI analysis.
Upload Your Interview